C7 in "Two Finger Mandolin Chords"

[timacn]

I was just looking over the "Two Finger Mandolin Chord" chart published on this site. It's a great resource and I thank whoever is responsible for creating and posting it.

I have a question, though, probably a stupid one. Take the C7 chord, for example. The chart lists the notes for that chord as G-D-Bb-E.

Why is that a C7 chord? Where is the root?

[Mandolin Mick]

Playing that chord exactly like you have posted is not really a C7. G is the 5th, Bb is the 7th, and the E is the 3rd. The D is the 2nd which is not really part of the chord.

Try C-E-Bb-G if you want the full deal (5-2-1-3).

But, that's 4 fingers ... not 2 ... ;)

Another way is C-G-Bb-E (5-5-1-0) which is 2 fingers.

I'm a Bluegrasser, so for a chop chord I'd use 3-2-3-X or 5-8-7-X. :)

[Mark Robertson-Tessi]

Technically it's an Eminor7 flat5. It's close to a C7, since if you switch the D to a C, it's a C7. Since it's close, you can often substitute it in place of a C7 and it will sound similar and have a similar chord function. But it's not a C7, strictly speaking. You can argue that it is a C9 without the C. (Since the mando only has 4 courses, you can't fully spell any chords beyond 7th chords, meaning you have to start leaving notes out. Unless you split string, but that's another topic).

If you want a two finger fully spelled C7, the only option is 0-8-3-0, which is not necessarily all that useful. On mandolin, often certain notes are left out of the chords, namely the root and the fifth. If you are playing with other players, usually the bass/guitar/piano will cover these fundamental notes, and the mando can focus on the color notes. If you are playing solo, it's your call whether you feel that you need the root and/or the fifth played in the chord, or whether you can leave it to be implied.

Cheers
Mark

[Jim Broyles]

Three points - the C7 shown on the "Two Finger Chord" (http://www.mandolincafe.com/two.html) page is spelled G E Bb E, not G D Bb E, and more importantly, you don't need a root for every chord. The E and the Bb are enough to imply a C7. That chord (G D Bb E) could correctly be called a C9, so it can be used as a dominant chord if so desired.

[timacn]

Thanks for pointing out my error. Of course, D string 2nd fret is E. (Don't know why I typed "D!")

Thanks for your other points as well.

[Don Stiernberg]

The third and seventh are the most important intervals of any chord. The root is usually enunciated by another instrument anyway, or the chord quality as expressed in the third and seventh allows the listener to fill in any missing notes and still know what's going on.
The third determines if a chord is major or minor, the seventh tells us if it is dominant(in the case of being paired with a major third).In this example we have E and Bb. E is the major third of C, Bb its lowered 7th. This is what I call "the business part" of a C7 sound. Interesting to note also the relationship between those two notes is a tritone or flatted fifth: the flatted fifth of E is Bb. And imagine that, the flatted fifth of Bb is E! This accounts for a good deal of the "tension" in dominant(b7, like C7) chords--it's a sound that begs resolution.For C7 on the mandolin, you can also have the Bb on the bottom(fret3) and the E above it(fret2).On the A string just about anything goes, but of course you'd engage more fingers. The open A string yields a 13 type sound since it is the major sixth(6+7=13!). The root on fret 3 yields the most commonly used dominant shape. The D on 5 gives you C9, and yes, without the C. b9 (fret 4) and #9(fret 6)add more tension and are seen in dominant chords that resolve to minor chords, or more jazz-like (or Hendrix-like!) sounds in other progressions...

[JeffD]

The third and seventh are the most important intervals of any chord. The root is usually enunciated by another instrument anyway, or the chord quality as expressed in the third and seventh allows the listener to fill in any missing notes and still know what's going on....

And the chords go by very fast in many cases. Especially the odd ones.

This has served me well over the years. Nobody has ever come up to me in a jam or performance to ask what happened in that last chord in the verse. So often in ensemble playing the goal is to have some useful contribution to make, which often trumps tecnical exactitude.

My thoughts anyway.

[John McGann]

A much more perfect two finger C7, as Donny points out, the real 'business' is the 3rd and 7th:

Bb E xx or 32xx in tab. That's all you need to define the chord. The beauty part is that you can add the root C (or b9, 9 or #9) on the A string (or even just open A for the 13th) and the 5th G (or b5, #5 or 13) on the E string. Doubling the lower E with the open E string doesn't add anything new to the chord harmonically, and actually sounds a bit thin (to me).

Thatsalladda chords for one basic position- I think around 17 or so different ones (maybe some ain't no part of nothin' for bluegrass, but if they ever invent any other kind of music, you can use:)

C7 (vanilla with root and 5: 3233 Bb E C G)
C7b9 324x (Bb E Db) (optional to add the 5th on the high string but expendable, harmonically)
C7 9 (build your own from here!)
C7 #9
C7 #11 (Bb E C F#)
C7 #5
C7 13

and the ever popular combo platters:

C7b9 #11
C7b9 (5 on top, no need to indicate it in chord symbol)
C7b9 #5
C7b9 13
C79 #11
C79 (5 on top, no need to indicate it in chord symbol)
C79 #5
C79 13
C7#9 #11
C7#9(5 on top, no need to indicate it in chord symbol)
C7#9 #5
C7#9 13

But wait! There's more! (collective groan)
Each one of those voicings can function as a different F#7 chord, since Bb can be seen as A# (3rd) and E as b7 of F#!

Fire up the espresso machine and have fun!