evaluating and dating Epiphone by Gibson Mandolin (1920 - 1930)

[raffaele20001]

I am trying to evaluate and date this Epiphone by Gibson Mandolin circa 1920 to 1930.
Please help. Thank you.

[Larry S Sherman]

I'm no expert on this, but that doesn't look like a mandolin from the 20's or 30's.

George Gruhn said (http://www.gruhn.com/articles/epistrand.html) "The Epiphone company was later bought by the Chicago Musical Instrument Company, which was owned by Gibson. Epiphone brand instruments were made by Gibson from the late 1950s until 1969." I would imagine that if the mandolin in your pictures was vintage, then the oldest it could be would be 1950.

To me it looks like a MM-30S (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/folk-traditional-instruments/epiphone-mm-30s-mandolin) or MM-20 A Style (http://www.janetdavismusic.com/epiphonemm20.html) Mandolin (not vintage), but like I said I don't know much about Epiphones.

The headstock looks altered to me.

Good luck, Larry

[mrmando]

During that time period, Epiphone was an independent company from Gibson. It was founded in New York by the Stathopoulos family.

Gibson acquired Epiphone in the 1960s and now uses the brand name for cheap Asian imports.

What you have here is an Epiphone MM30 made overseas, likely no more than 30 years old. Someone may be able to date it more precisely by the headstock logo and tuners. It is worth no more than $150 to $200.

[mrmando]

This thread (http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/49639-epiphone-by-gibson-headstock-sheraton-owners-club/) on the Gibson forum suggests that guitars with the "Epiphone by Gibson" headstock logo were made at the Samick factory in Korea between 1986 and 1988. For whatever that's worth.

Contemporary logos just say "Epiphone" or "The Epiphone." No "by Gibson."

[Larry S Sherman]

Yeah, I had never seen the "by Gibson" before...looked fake, definitely import. At least it's legitimate import-I hate to see people ending up with fake Gibson associations.

Larry

[allenhopkins]

...I hate to see people ending up with fake Gibson associations...

And I hate to see Epaminondas Stathopoulo's name stuck on a bunch of run-of-the-mill imports that have nothing to do with the rich heritage of Epiphone instruments -- but that's just me...

[Big Joe]

That one was made much closer to 2030 than 1930. It is likely a mid to late 90's Epi. Probably plywood body (MM20). Ok for a starter mandolin, but not worth much. Certainly not a 1920-1930 era by any means!!! :) .

[mrmando]

Whose autograph is on it?

[Bill Snyder]

Rafaelle, since you are new here and don't anything about any of us I think someone should let you know that a lot of the folks here really are knowledgeable about mandolins. In addition to all of the other people Big Joe Vest has responded to you. Joe is quite knowledgeable about Gibsons. He worked for Gibson for several years and I think most (if not all?) of those where in Gibson's OAI which includes their mandolin production.

[raffaele20001]

The mandolin was given to my friend in the 1930's, therefore it cannot be one of the newer models. thanks again.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

That certainly is a mystery then. Was the guys name Marty McFly by any chance? (sorry, I had to. no offense meant)

[johnl]

That can't be the mandolin your friend was given in the thirties. As has been stated, that 'Epiphone by Gibson' logo was only used during the eighties. Epiphone mandolins made before the Gibson buyout also had different body dimensions than that one. Check out this thread for some pics of Epi mandolins and headstocks from the thirties:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?72636-dating-an-old-Epiphone-model-Adelphi&highlight=epiphone
Also, here are some Epiphone catalogs from the period:
http://www.acousticmusic.org/Instrument-Catalogs-sp-87.html#Epiphone

[brunello97]

I have a feeling we'll be seeing this for sale on Ebay as if these discussions never happened and with the "given to my friend in the '30s" as a featured part of the ad copy.

Mick

[mrmando]

This mandolin was never bought, sold, given, or received, to, by, or from anyone, in the 1930s. This mandolin did not exist until the 1980s.

[Big Joe]

It's not unusual for one to forget when they got a particular instrument. There is nothing on this Epiphone that was built way back then and the materials used are even different from what would have been used then. No one is trying to argue with you, but I can guarantee you that mandolin was not even thought of in the 20' or 30's. It is not a bad entry level mandolin but it is NOT American made, and it is NOT from the era your friend thinks. There may have been a different one your friend had and just forgot. That happens quite often. We do welcome you to the Cafe and you will certainly learn a lot about the instrument here on this forum.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

I think Andrew nailed it on the head and offered up what I consider the most obvious explanation to this condurum that had somehow eluded us all: someone had bought this mandolin in the late 80s or early 90san and went back in time and presented it to the OP's friend. While such occurrence maybe rare, it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility. I think.

To the OP: treasure this mandolin the way it deserves to be treasured as it may very well be the only one of its kind.

[Ben Milne]

How old is your friend? Perhaps they meant this mandolin was given to me in my thirties?

Regardless, continuing to start multiple threads won't make your mandolin older than it actually is.
Have you browsed the sites suggested by other posters regarding when Gibson procured the Epiphone name, or the links put forward with evidence of which era your Epiphone by Gibson instrument does belong to?

[baptist mando55]

Probably just someone practicing thier inlay skills.

[Masterbilt]

http://wiedler.ch/guitars/martymcfly_epi.jpg

[Andrew B. Carlson]

Classic.

[raffaele20001]

My friend is 87 years old, and he told me it was given to him back in the 30,s. I'm just trying to help him out and find out what I can.
Thanks for your help.

[Ignatius]

My friend is 87 years old, and he told me it was given to him back in the 30,s. I'm just trying to help him out and find out what I can.
Thanks for your help.Just to help work through the confusion in your friend's thought (which has to be the case because, as many have noted, Gibson didn't even own the Epiphone brand name until 1957): If your friend is 87, that means he was born in 1923 or 1924. Unless he is claiming to have received this mandolin when he was between the ages of 6 and 15, there is no way he received this mandolin (or any other one) in the decade you've noted (the 1930s). You might ask him to clarify HIS age when he received the mandolin because that already might begin to unravel the puzzle.

You need to begin, though, with the fact that the mandolin itself cannot be from earlier than the late 1980s. You actually can answer this dating question VERY quickly by sending your pictures in an email to Gibson itself. They will verify everything you've heard here. As Big Joe noted to you, it is not at all unusual that people confuse dates of instruments. There also is the very real possibility that your friend himself bought the mandolin from someone who convinced him that it was from the 1920s.

[Jake Wildwood]

:popcorn:

[f5loar]

"My friend is 87 years old, and he told me it was given to him back in the 30,s. I'm just trying to help him out and find out what I can.
Thanks for your help. "
Okay I'll bite. Then your friend is blind and someone back in the early 90's pulled a switcharoo on his mandolin and he don't know the difference. This looks late 80's to early 90's to me but I thought those "by Gibson" Epiphone imports only had the "by Gibson" on the truss rod cover. This "by Gibson" pearloid inlay looks non-factory to me. Are we seeing a new breed of the fake Gibson A5s with the fake logo and labels and now they have gone to calling them Epiphones by Gibson? While I didn't keep up with those Epi imports I have kept up with what was made by Epi in the 20's and 30's and this ain't one of them. Have you posted the wrong photo? Oh wait it's April fools day! Nope that ain't it either. Then I'll go with the time machine story.

[Big Joe]

It is a factory inlay. They did that on the mandolins for a period of time. Just not in the 20's or 30's :) .

[almeriastrings]

I was wondering if someone did a "switch" too. If there was one from the 30's, and someone or other borrowed it - or stole it - and substituted this cheap Asian copy in its place? That kind of thing has been heard of before. If your elderly friend is not really familiar with mandolins, he may simply not have noticed.

[theCOOP]

To me it looks like a MM-30S (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/folk-traditional-instruments/epiphone-mm-30s-mandolin) or MM-20 A Style (http://www.janetdavismusic.com/epiphonemm20.html) Mandolin (not vintage), but like I said I don't know much about Epiphones.

The headstock looks altered to me.

Good luck, Larry

With the laminate top (and I'm no expert) I would think it's an MM-20. I have here an "MM-30" solid top from about 1992, Korean Built, no (adjustable) truss rod and neck mounted at the 10th fret (like the one in question.

Mine doesn't refer to Gibson ANYWHERE on it and no E logo on the pick guard.

...for what it's worth.

And my ~10y/o MM-30 E/AS from China, also solid top has the neck mounted at the 12th fret.