Is my mandolin REALLY a 1912??

[rgalpin]

There is a number stamped on the inside - you see it as you look through the hole toward the neck. I'm posting pics. Please take a look and let me know what you think. Is this the serial number? If so, it would indicate built in 1912. I'm guessing though that it's probably not that old because of the adjustable bridge.

Thanks all!
-Rob761977619676198

[mrmando]

The number stamped on the neck block is the lot number, not the serial number. Lot number looks like 11031.

The serial number should be written in pencil on the label. I'm guessing it's between 65000 and 71500, if you can read it.

This looks like an F2 with an adjustable bridge but no truss rod. If the bridge is original, those features would date it to 1921 or 1922.

Joe Spann's recent Gibson book will provide a way to date it by the lot number.

[rgalpin]

ah... that's what I figured. Thanks for the info - I tried to go back and rename the thread since it's NOT 1912 - couldn't do it - sorry about that. 1921 or 22 -that's very cool! I play guitar and so my aunt gave me this mandolin that belonged to someone in the family - I had no idea how old it was until now.

[rgalpin]

The serial number is very very light but it appears to be 47638. According to a document I have seen this would put it at 1918. Do you think that is possible based on the features in the pics?

[CES]

The FON number, when available, is also quite helpful in dating older Gibson mandolins...I think they're typically stamped on the heel or back of the peghead, though I may be mistaken on the location...

[Tom C]

Beautiful. You are very lucky.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

The tuners in the picture seem to be Handel tuners (http://www.mandolincafe.com/glossary/glossary_63.shtml), and if they are original, that would put the date before 1918.

[rgalpin]

Thanks Tom C!

Ok - I did a little investigating - armed with the knowledge you all gave me about what the numbers mean - check this out - I found a picture and info of a 1918 F2 with an adjustable bridge right here: http://www.mandolinarchive.com/perl/show_mando.pl?549

The numbers a re very close to mine:
Serial Number: 47053

Mine is 47638. And the Lot Numbers (Factory Order Numbers) of the mandolins listed on that site around that period are around the same as mine:

1918 shipment date, according to Spann's Guide to Gibson
Mandolin, Style F2
Serial 46977
Factory Order number: 11090

My FON is 11031

!!!!!!!!

Dude I am stoked!! :grin::grin::grin:

[CES]

BTW, that's a beautiful instrument! Congratulations...care for it and play it well and often!!

[mrmando]

Yes, it does have Handels. The bridge is not original, then. Adjustable bridges weren't available on Gibson mandolins until 1921.

[Ed Goist]

Beautiful instrument!
Congratulations.
Play on.

[rgalpin]

76211
The tuners in the picture seem to be Handel tuners (http://www.mandolincafe.com/glossary/glossary_63.shtml), and if they are original, that would put the date before 1918.
Thanks for the link. Here's a pic of my tuners. They have a slightly different design. The pics in the link you posted have a star in the middle, these have a diamond shape. Posting the pics in case you'd like to see...

[Masterbilt]

My FON is 11031
Joe Spann's book has this FON listed as F2 from 1917 (production). Serial 47638 suggests shipment in 1918.

[rgalpin]

Wow - I am pleasantly surprised to put it mildly! Thank you all again for all this excellent info.

-Rob

[Jim Garber]

It is hard to tell from the photos, but it may be possible that this one had a trip back to the factory at some time, maybe 1940s or 50s and in those days it was common for the instruments to be refinished for one reason or another. I can't tell for sure because digital camerasm do distort color, but I have seen 20s guitars that were refinished in cherry sunburst in the 1960s.

[rgalpin]

One strange marking it has is an "M" drawn in pencil on the label inside. It has an awkward scribble look to it - as if someone had to reach through the hole to write it. It's pencil and it is very dark, fat lines. Like the way it looks when you write something over and over to make it darker. Ever seen anything like that?

[Gail Hester]

It is hard to tell from the photos, but it may be possible that this one had a trip back to the factory at some time, maybe 1940s or 50s and in those days it was common for the instruments to be refinished for one reason or another.

The soundhole rosette is from a later period, 30s maybe.

[mrmando]

Good catch, Gail! I thought something didn't look quite right, but I was in a hurry. Here's that same rosette on a 1940 F4:
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/images/40gibsonf4_96388_fon565f/front2.jpg

[Jim Garber]

Hmmmm... possibly retopped then?

[mrmando]

Yes, possibly retopped ... unless there was a reason for replacing the rosette as part of a refinish on the existing top.

I wouldn't swear that the fretboard was original either, but someone more in the know than I am would have to determine that.

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

More interesting still. Reading the description on Charles Johnson's website prompted me to also go back to the OP, and noticed what appears to be an elevated fingerboard in the first picture. Am I correct? If that's the case, could this mandolin be from the 30's or even 40s? But how does it reconcile with the serial number / label?

[mrmando]

The label, Handels, pickguard, and headstock logo match up with the lot number and serial number, indicating a 1917 manufacture date and 1918 ship date.

The top finish (and possibly the entire top), rosette, and elevated fretboard are from a later date (late '30s to early '40s). What we've pieced together here indicates that this mandolin was built in the teens but had some work done about 20 years later: it was either retopped or refinished, with a new rosette, and got a new elevated fretboard.

My first post considered just 2 pieces of evidence: the bridge and the absence of a truss rod, so I was way off the mark there.

[brunello97]

Amidst all the great detective work I want to join in the chorus: Whatever its hybrid provenance, this is a very nice looking mandolin.

Mick

[Beanzy]

Getting this as an unexpected gift must is the stuff of most folks dreams.
I reckon Rob's aunt is going to be getting more then a pair of slippers next Christmas.

What an heirloom and an honour to get to carry it forward. Don't sell it. Play it and play it forever.

[rgalpin]

762547625576256762577625876259

Serial Number: 47638
Factory Order Number: 11031

Oh - I have no intentions of selling it. I am actually going to play it at a church picnic tomorrow! :) :mandosmiley:

Very interesting how you guys have pieced together the history based on the pics. So, I am posting some more pics here and if these reveal any additional clues as to the origins of the instrument, please let me know.

[Jim]

Wow, that's my dream mandolin. You are a very lucky guy. Enjoy it.

[RayMan7]

One strange marking it has is an "M" drawn in pencil on the label inside. It has an awkward scribble look to it - as if someone had to reach through the hole to write it. It's pencil and it is very dark, fat lines. Like the way it looks when you write something over and over to make it darker. Ever seen anything like that?

I would like to know more about this too, because I`m getting an A (1921?) that what looks to be H W n, or maybe upsite down U M H? Thick writing too.. By the way thats so cool how you got your mandolin - I`m getting mine for free too, but it`s no where near as cool as yours! Play it man till you cant play it no more!

[Verne Andru]

Very cool!

[rgalpin]

Is it possible for two mandolins to have the same FON? I have been contacted by someone who has an F2 Gibson with the same FON: 11031.

?? Both were part of the same order/delivery? This gets to the question: What IS the purpose/meaning of a FON?

[pheffernan]

What IS the purpose/meaning of a FON?

The meaning of FON is the Factory Order Number, and its purpose is outlined here: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?55349-Gibson-History-serial-numbers-FON-s-and-such/page2

[PaulBills]

Love it! I hope at some point I get a really old mando, so I can have you guys look up its history :)

[mrmando]

Each FON represents 40 instruments, so yes, you should expect that there are others out there with the same FON. Serial numbers, however, should be unique.

[rgalpin]

Just wanted to let you guys know that this mandolin that you all helped me to identify is still in use! :) Mandolin accompaniment comes in at the 2nd verse. Not going to win me any awards but sure is cool to have such a sweet instrument to add in when called on. https://youtu.be/Dtxl8Cql__Y

[mandrian]

Nice story and nice song too.

Regards