Mandolin Banjo

[RayMan7]

Heya guys, I got (actually my parents for my 16th b-day) this mandolin banjo from the local music store for about $100, the guy didnt want to sell it but needed the money, even though he said it could be worth $1000, and he was just a cool dude lol. So anyways we`ve been doing some research on it but found nothing like it so far, so wondering what you guys would say about? It`s a pretty sweet little manjo, everything is there and original, except the bridge which the guy made, and I`m thinking its before the 1900`s, by things like the whale bone (as he says) button tuners, and the medal tuner covers, which is before the 1890s right? He even said it`s atleast a hundred years old. The skin on it is original goat skin or something, and is about 5 and a half inches wide, so it`s pretty small! I`m stoked cause I`ve been trying to get a mandolin for ever! :)

So yeah let me know what you guys think! Ray

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo002.jpg
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo006.jpg
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo003.jpg
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo007.jpg

[JEStanek]

Welcome to the Cafe, Ray. That's a fun looking mandolin Banjo. I bet even being small with that resonator on there it's pretty loud. I'm certainly no expert but I'm guessing the value on it is much closer to what you paid than to $1000. We have a couple of members who really know their stuff about these old instruments. I'm sure you'll have a better answer about where it was made and when soon.

Jamie

[RayMan7]

The head is real nice on this thing, has black rosewood like the fretboard all the way to the top, so it `s not just painted black!

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo004.jpg

Looks like there used to a marking or something at the hole and the top
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo008.jpg

The neck is perfectly straight with nice mother of pearl
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo005.jpg

[RayMan7]

http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo009.jpg
http://i1023.photobucket.com/albums/af358/Khraih/manjo010.jpg

[RayMan7]

Hey thanks Jamie! Yep, youre right it is surprisingly loud! And yeah $1000 is alot, but like he said that`s not the value of it, but theres probably someone out there its worth that much! It is to me now lol

[allenhopkins]

Looks British made to me (reasonable, since you're in Canada). British manufacturers made a lot of those small-head resonator mandolin-banjos. Not dissimilar in construction to this one (http://antebelluminstruments.blogspot.com/2009/10/c1920s-british-banjo-mandolin.html) at Jake Wildwood's website. Probably 1900-20 vintage; Houghton, Grey and Windsor were British mandolin-banjo manufacturers, and made similar instruments, though I haven't seen one with that shape headstock. The hole in the back of the headstock probably held a medallion with the maker's name...?

As to value, I'd say sub-$200 US, since there's some corrosion on the metal parts. Still could be a playable and fun instrument. Oh, and the tuning buttons aren't "whalebone," which was a flexible material used in ladies' corsets. Probably ivoroid.

[RayMan7]

Looks British made to me (reasonable, since you're in Canada). British manufacturers made a lot of those small-head resonator mandolin-banjos. Not dissimilar in construction to this one (http://antebelluminstruments.blogspot.com/2009/10/c1920s-british-banjo-mandolin.html) at Jake Wildwood's website. Probably 1900-20 vintage; Houghton, Grey and Windsor were British mandolin-banjo manufacturers, and made similar instruments, though I haven't seen one with that shape headstock. The hole in the back of the headstock probably held a medallion with the maker's name...?

As to value, I'd say sub-$200 US, since there's some corrosion on the metal parts. Still could be a playable and fun instrument. Oh, and the tuning buttons aren't "whalebone," which was a flexible material used in ladies' corsets. Probably ivoroid.

Thanks for the info man! That one in the link is pretty similar in construction, but there is a lot thats different like the way the neck bolts on, like mine has binding and stuff, this one is pretty well made as far as I can tell. It`s looks like its corroded in the pics, but it`s actually just dirty from many years of playing, I havent cleaned it yet but its shiny underneath it all lol. Oh and it`s real fun to play, the neck is real comfortable, and its perfectly playable, doesnt need any work! Haha yeah, the guy said it was whale bone, and it does look like some kinda bone, was ivory like a plastic that can be molded and is a solid colour? The dark lines in the pics are actually part of it, not just dirt, and you can see they were filed, so it was tough whatever it is!

[RayMan7]

Is it possible that this bandolin (what I call it lol) could be before the 1800`s at all?

[McMandolin]

This style of banjo-mandolin might be called zither banjo-mandolins. Charles Hudson is credited with the first zither mandolin-banjo.
http://www.zither-banjo.org/pages/hudson.htm

[Denny Gies]

You are going to have fun playing that Ray. Congratulations.

[scootergirl62]

It's a nice looking instrument and if you're happy with it, that's all that matters. Don't get too hung up on what "the guy" told you it's worth - anyone who says something is worth $1000 yet sells it for $100 is likely exaggerating slightly. Since it's a birthday gift to you, the value of it should be that. Give it a gentle cleaning, tune it up and play it! Congrats!

[allenhopkins]

Is it possible that this bandolin (what I call it lol) could be before the 1800`s at all?

I'd say the earliest it's likely to be would be the last decade of the 19th century; almost certainly it's 1900-30 or so. Mandolin banjos were a hybrid of two popular "turn of the 20th century" instruments, and were made in large numbers while both mandolin and banjo were still widely played. Companies stopped making them entirely before World War II, and only recently have manufacturers like Gold Tone added them to their inventories.

[RayMan7]

Thanks guys, sure am having fun playing it! Oh and thanks McMandolin for the link, that was a real cool read. It doesnt say when exactly the mandolin banjo was made though, I`d like to find that out. Can anyone tell me about the closed tuners, cause I thought those where in the 1880s or so with beelte back mandolins, and mine has closed tuners, and also I noticed how the frets arent rounded and not T shape, just flat wire, is that an early design, or just something different companies did? I`ve seen some 20`s bandos but they all look newer than this one.

[MikeEdgerton]

Allen is being pretty generous with the value, it's most likely British made as he said and he's right on with the age. It isn't any earlier than that, it could actually be a bit later than he's putting it.

[allenhopkins]

...Can anyone tell me about the closed tuners, cause I thought those where in the 1880s or so with beelte back mandolins, and mine has closed tuners, and also I noticed how the frets arent rounded and not T shape, just flat wire, is that an early design, or just something different companies did?...

1. A fair number of early-20th-century mandolins had plates that covered the tuner gears. You sometimes found engraved plates on the fancier instruments, but it's not a consistent indicator of either age or quality, just whatever the manufacturer preferred.

2. Bar frets, which is what you apparently have, generally were phased out by the 1930's; Martin instruments had them until 1934 or so. Indication of an earlier-rather-than-later vintage for this instrument.

I sense that you want this mandolin to be 19th-century rather than later, and it could be -- but it's not likely. Since you can't ID the manufacturer, dating it specifically, rather than by general appearance, is difficult. If you could Google around on "British mandolin banjo" and find an identical one on-line, that might come closer to establishing a time period for it.

[RayMan7]

1. A fair number of early-20th-century mandolins had plates that covered the tuner gears. You sometimes found engraved plates on the fancier instruments, but it's not a consistent indicator of either age or quality, just whatever the manufacturer preferred.

2. Bar frets, which is what you apparently have, generally were phased out by the 1930's; Martin instruments had them until 1934 or so. Indication of an earlier-rather-than-later vintage for this instrument.

I sense that you want this mandolin to be 19th-century rather than later, and it could be -- but it's not likely. Since you can't ID the manufacturer, dating it specifically, rather than by general appearance, is difficult. If you could Google around on "British mandolin banjo" and find an identical one on-line, that might come closer to establishing a time period for it.

Thanks man again for all the info! I guess I just been reading too much ebay seller discriptions! That`s where I got the closed tuners were only from before 1880s. Now I know lol. And yeah I was hoping it would be atleast 100 years, its just the way I`ve always been (actually my family), I like the old stuff lol. But even if it wasnt very old I like it, cleaned it up and play it all the time. :)

[mandorock]

Hi Ray I have one like yours, very similar, mine says Dulcetta London with serial number #15867 it says on the back of the headstock.
I got it with no bridge or strings, been hanging on someone's wall for 10 years as an ornament. But I restored it a bit with new ebony bridge and hand shaped nut and now am playing it and it has a sweet tone. 85651856528565385654
I do wonder about the age as well, mine also has a 5 and 1/2" diameter skin, regards Ray ( as well...haha) - sorry about the messy post its my first one

[RayMan7]

Whoa that is pretty close, looks cool to! I like the headstock on it. Actually I haven't seen any yet quite like mine, especially with the tuners built in, but I did see a beetle back with the exact same headstock, wish I could remember the name. Good job on rescuing it man, always good to be done for sure.

[RayMan7]

Oh yeah, if you wanted more sound out of it you could change that bridge out with a more banjo like one, cause I've noticed on mine with one like that it totally dampens it, maybe mines touchy but it's a suggestion :)