Ratliff, Old Wave, Silverangel, MT?

[MinkBrookRambler]

I'm thinking of upgrading from my first mandolin, which is a Big Muddy that I like. I'm interested in buying an archtop mandolin, but I'm limited in my research by a couple of things. First, I live in New Hampshire, near a small music shop that has a few Eastmans, but in order to try out more than those couple of instruments I'd have to drive 2+ hrs to Boston. Second--and more difficult--I'm left-handed, so even if there were acres of instruments in my town I'd have a tough time playing 98% of them.

With that said, I'd be interested in peoples' descriptions of a couple of mandolins. I'm not asking for rankings, but thoughts on a given instrument's qualities. In order, here's what I'm interested in:
playability
tone--I really like a throaty sound and a full bottom end
aesthetic

I'm not really interested in an Asian-made mandolin. The instruments I'm thinking about are based on peoples' enthusiasm here on the cafe, and include, in no particular order,
Audey Ratliff A5
Old Wave A5
Silverangel A5
Collings MT

I suspect I'd be happy with any of them, but your descriptions may help me choose one in particular. Thanks in advance.

[Brent Hutto]

If you aren't going to audition those various candidates before buying, then start with a Collings MT. An already used one is even better than new for your needs. Its' a known quantity, has a tone that will work in a variety of musical styles and can be bought and resold with much less difficulty and financial loss than any of the other candidates.

So if it works for you, there's your keeper and it's a quality instrument (not that the others are not). If it doesn't you can resell it within a matter of weeks for a net cost of a couple hundred (if you bought it used) or a few hundred (if you bought it new) dollars. Any of the others will take longer on average to resell and if you buy them new you will take a big hit reselling. At least one of them costs a lot more than an MT, to boot.

Conversely, if you don't wish to obsess over the resale question I think trying an Old Wave A5 before the others is starting at the top, based on reputation. I've never played one, alas.

[Chip Booth]

I have no experience at all with Ratliff or Silverangel. I have played a number of Collings instruments and I own an Old Wave. To give you some perspective, I am lucky enough that my main mandolin is a very nice sounding Gilchrist. The Collings I have played all sound pretty similar, consistently nice, but not remarkable to my ear (keep in mind, when I say remarkable I mean top of the line remarkable). It's kind of like a new Martin D28, a good sound, infinitely better than imports and other lower line instruments but there is still lot of room for improvement. Some people may never need to go that extra distance, and that is completely reasonable.

I own Old Wave A5 #353, and it is the only OW mandolin I have played. I have been told that it is an unusually good sounding example of Mr Bill's work, but I have no basis for comparison. The instrument itself is a little beat up, and kind of rough around the edges to begin with, but the tone consistently turns heads. For 1/10 the price of my Gil I got about 90% of the tone. If the OW was my only mandolin I could be perfectly happy with that.

Again, I have never held another OW mandolin, so I can't say if my experience is unique or not, but my instrument is built differently than a normal Gibson style A5 copy. It has a slightly wider body, a different shape than most builders use. I won't fit well in a standard case. The shape seems to be based on old Gibson oval hole bodies and it fits well in the cases that hold my snakehead. I suspect that the design is based on the Loar Griffith A5, but don't know this for sure. I am guessing that the overall body cavity air volume is slightly larger, as it has fairly deep tone, and the resonance of a chop chord is more prominent in the G position that A as most other mandolins I have played are. The end result is a deep woody chop, while still having a sweet high end with plenty of overtones. You can play softly and get a really pretty tone, and or dig in and get aggressive without worrying about over-driving the instrument. I don't know what the top is, but if I had to guess I would say Englemann based on the tone. It doesn't have the same kind of Gibson-esque bright mid range, but it has plenty of cutting power in an ensemble, and that suits me just fine.

My best recommendation to you is to play as many instruments as you can. We all have very different opinions and what works well for me may not appeal as much to you. You have listed some good options but there are many more available, too many to bother to mention. I am also a fan of older Flatiron instruments. They can be really nice for the money, but vary depending on the model and year. Just try to get your hands on anything you can, take a friend with you to listen to them, and play along with someone else such as a guitarist if you can, to see how the instrument sounds "in the mix". Take your time and enjoy the hunt!

[mandobassman]

All of those you have listed are great mandolins for sure, but if you are looking for great low end I'd go with the Silverangel. I have heard a couple and were blown away by the low end power. Something else you might want to consider since you seem to favor the A style body, is a Phoenix. You don't state a price range but judging by the ones you have listed I think the Phoenix (possibly a used one) would be in your range. You're only about 4-5 hours away from Phoenix in South Thomaston, Maine. Take a ride up there and check one out.

[John Flynn]

I've played a lot of MTs. Also, I own an OW oval, I've played another OW oval extensively and also played an OW A-5. All great stuff.

Personally, if you want something standardized, off the shelf and now, I'd get the Collings. You can't go wrong.

If you want something customized and unique, with serious mojo, I'd talk to Bill Bussman. He does stuff with exotic woods and finishes that makes nearly all his stuff one-of-a-kind and great.

I've played a couple of examples of the other two. I can't say anything bad about them, they just didn't stand out for me.

[Chip Booth]

A left handed OW oval just popped up in the classifieds.

[almeriastrings]

I agree with Mandobassman. The Silverangel A5 should be very high on your list. They are superb mandolins and extraordinary value. They have great low end, with a high end clarity to match. I like Silverangels so much I have two of them: an A5 and a distressed F5. While acknowledging that Collings make a near-flawless instrument, I have never played one myself that I would actually buy. To me (and I realise that not everyone feels the same way), they sound almost too "clinical". This is totally subjective, of course, and you may find you love 'em. Plenty do. I have only ever played one Old Wave, and then for a few minutes under less than ideal conditions, but I was very impressed. It reminded my very much of my SilverAngels in the power, and depth. A lot of character, and very organic.

The main problem with things like Silverangel, OW and Ratliff is finding ones you can actually try out. They are all very fine instruments.

[D C Blood]

7583075831

:grin:I also, am a Silverangel lover, as you might can tell from my avatar...I've been playing almost fifty years now, and in that time from thousands of different mandolins, I've only played a lfew I would count as better mandolins than my Silverangels...

[Douglas McMullin]

I have had a Ratliff A, Collings MT & an Old Wave oval. If money were no object I would still have all three, as they each were great and had their own character. I would also second the though above to add Phoenix to the mix, that's what I play now.

That said, play some if you can, but you probably can't go too far astray with any of these.

[strings777]

My Ratliff has great volume and is very balanced sounding, but I've never had the pleasure to try an Old Wave, Silverangel, or a Collings, so I can't compare my Ratliff to them. If you're interested in a throaty sound with a full bottom end, I agree with mandobassman about trying out a Phoenix....my Phoenix Bluegrass has the best bottom end out of any mandolin that I've played.

[Frank Russell]

I've played all four, and have owned two Old Wave A's, one new, one used, and had a Collings MT and MF. I recently traded my excellent Givens A3 for a Collings MT wide nut and some cash. Never been happier with a trade before, and hardly miss the Givens, which is saying a lot, as it was a killer. I'm a huge fan of Bill Bussmann's instruments, and will most definitely own one in the future again. If you can find one at your price range, they've got the easy playability, tone and bottom end you mentioned. Then again, nothing plays right out of the box like a new Collings. Super easy to play, mega-tone, nice bottom end. They even smell delicious! I'd like to be in your shoes, as you have a pretty pleasant choice to make overall, with no dogs in the bunch. Frank

[baptist mando55]

I haver never played a Ratliff or Old Wave bur I wonder about Ratliffs you see a lot for sale but he has made over a thousand so this may be the reason. I know this wont be popular but i have never played or heard a Collings that i liked at all. much too bright and hard sounding this goes for thier guitars as well.The besr A I ever played was a Unicorn at Harry wests years ago. so that would make me think Phoenix.

[Rob Gerety]

I think that you should take two weekends and make two trips to all the shops in the Boston and New York area. Don't bring your wallet on the trips. Wait at least a week after that trip. Then buy the one you think you like best. I have been through the same thing you are going through (I live a couple of miles from Mink Brook on the Vermont side of the Connecticut River). There is absolutely NO SUBSTITUTE for playing the instruments yourself. Last time I did this I started out thinking I wanted a particular mandolin (one of the mandolins on your list) and I ended up with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT mandolin. The fact that one person, or even 20 people, really like a particular mandolin absolutely does not mean that you will like the same mandolin. Lastly, consider buying a used instrument. I blew an awful lot of money out the window buying new instruments and then selling them a couple of years down the road. The damage isn't as great when you do that with a used instrument. I have had EXCELLENT luck buying used mandolins and guitars.

[tburcham]

I presently own a Silverangel distressed F model and a Collings MT2v. Both are outstanding mandolins, but they are radically different in their sound. The MT2v I have is probably one of the loudest mandolins I've ever heard, yet it can be played to sound sweet as honey. It has a dry tone with plenty of power and projection. The Silverangel sounds completely different. I've never played another mandolin of any make (this includes a Gibson MM) that has the lower registers of a Silverangel. Ken just makes a really deep sounding mandolin, yet they are not short on the high frequencies either. Just a great mandolins...period. This weekend the Angel was my #1...in a another month I may be back to my MT2v as my #1.

Another area that I prefer my Angel is the nut width (~30 mm) and the v-shaped neck....the playability is just off the charts! One of my friends has a Ratcliff Econ A model. While a trained ear can tell the difference between my F and his A...it is subtle. In other words Ken gets that sound even in his $1500 mandolins! If you want a $1500 mandolin that has the tone and power of a 100 year old vintage mandolin...get Ken to build you an Economy A model. The workmanship will not compare with the Collings...nothing does, but the sound and playability will blow you away!