How many of you can read Standard Notation?

[Keith Witty]

I'm curious.

Also, I have been playing some Bach, but all I can do is convert a Youtube file to .wmv (usually Chris Thile) and slow it down to half-speed on Windows Media Player and learn by ear. This is getting old. I've decided that I'm going to exercise my patience and learn to read music. It might take 5 years to get to the point where I could read Bach, but it will be worth it.

Any suggestions as to what I should use? I don't want a book with Tablature in it at all. What did you use to learn it?

Thanks,

Keith

[JeffD]

I used an old beginners clarinet book I had lying around. Hey, its what I had at the time.

I would suggest a beginner violin book, though. There are many good ones available at most music stores.

I would not say 5 years. It depends. Everyone is different. You could be taking on Bach in a year.

Listen to many different Bach mandolinners, not just Thile. There are many. (Many many) Everyone does it with a little different interpretation. Subtle emphasis and dynamics here and there.

[Keith Witty]

I used an old beginners clarinet book I had lying around. Hey, its what I had at the time.

I would suggest a beginner violin book, though. There are many good ones available at most music stores.

I would not say 5 years. It depends. Everyone is different. You could be taking on Bach in a year.

Listen to many different Bach mandolinners, not just Thile. There are many. (Many many) Everyone does it with a little different interpretation. Subtle emphasis and dynamics here and there.

It is difficult to find many others. Their is one other that I know of, the woman who passed away not too long ago. I can't recall her name for the life of me.

[JeffD]

They are all over the place, at various speeds and various types of mandolins, professionals, amateurs, adults, kids, various pieces, OMG just search google videos for bach on mandolin.

svvM2a3dUMo

cHmh1yZhLnc

0YU0isvRgkc

lAYLqOQ72f8

SaR-5pc3PrY

vO3BFS6e1ls

uJ4mTUqGqeU

CbOYQi3DmPw

yCkcY-mZ1pc

And many many more.

[Brent Hutto]

If you do a little bit of reading practice most days for a year, you will definitely be able to read your way through any of the Bach pieces that I'm likely to be able to play. Not necessarily read it at full speed but follow the basic line a note at a time until you can get familiar with it, then take it up to speed.

In five years if you have any knack for it at all you could be a pretty good sight-reader. More likely in a year or two you'll be able to do as much reading as you need for your purposes. The big thing how many notes "stacked up" you need to read. If it's one-note lines, even those intimidating-looking Bach ones with the accidentals, that gets pretty easy relatively quickly. Or even an occasional double-stop. But full chords like a fingerstyle or classical guitarist might play are brutal to read!

Here's my one hint. If you work your way through a method book an it has some exercises to practice reading rhythms be sure to work on those early and often. Reading rhythms is trickier than it might appear but if you can get good at that early on, you'll be able to really focus in on the notes later without having to think much about the rhythm. In the long run you'll get where you're going faster if the rhythm-reading foundation is solid as early as possible.

P.S. Some Cafe denizens contribute a bit of Bach...

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?do=discuss&discussionid=1831

[journeybear]

I don't do it very often, but I had to brush up on it last year because I got a gig playing Italian music at an Italian restaurant, so I had to beef up my repertoire from the four or five standards I knew. It was a step back in time, from when I was starting out on this musical journey, and it took some doing, but I worked through it. And learned other stuff in the process, as always happens.

My first instrument was the tonette, a black plastic ocarina, that all of us had to play in 4th or 5th grade. I was a natural, it seemed, and my mom gave me recorder lessons for a while. I found the recorder pleasant but I could wail on the tonette. Anyway, when she gave me a guitar a few years later (not much luck with it) and a mandolin a couple years after that, I dug out my recorder books for source material. I started picking up songbooks from bands I knew (Lovin' Spoonful, Jethro Tull, Traffic, The Band, etc - this was the late 1960s ;) ), and between these sources and Mel Bay's Mandolin Chords I was able to figure out a lot of stuff. I think I had gotten the basics in the recorder lessons - key signatures, time signatures, the G clef staff, notes and their lengths - and the thing about standard notation is , well, it's standard - the same regardless of instrument being played or genre of music.

After I got the basics down, I went for years learning more from playing with others and by ear than sheet music. I picked it up again in the 1980s when I started playing swing and Tin Pan Alley era tunes in a band. This was much more complex music than I had seen before, circle of fifths and passing chords and passing notes and more, and sometimes I would have to struggle through, playing through melody and harmony lines to figure out the chords (some of this was piano music) and get it to sound right, but I began to see some correlations with what I already knew. For instance, seeing something like F F#dim C A7 D7 G7 C reminded me of how John Sebastian wrote the bridge of "Daydream" as F D7 C A7, once I realized F#dim used the same notes as D7 without a D. You know, stuff like that. Sometimes learning involves realizing you already know something, you just have to put the pieces together differently. When I got a job as a librarian at a music school, which included copying orchestra parts for students, I got another boost in learning how to read notation. Sometimes this means I have to stare at a page for a while, and I will never be able to sight read a new piece in tempo, but I can usually dope this stuff out in a reasonable time.

All this helped a great deal when I had to revisit this last winter. Some pieces were easier than others, but pretty soon I saw patterns - signature riffs that seemed common to either the type of piece or the region (these were from the pdf file of folk dances from the Abruzzo region, over at the Southern Italian Mandolin thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?51083)), post # 25, and though I had never heard of these songs, at least they were mostly in G. I was pleased to find out, once I tracked down the recording they were from, that I had sorted them out pretty well, even the tempos. Pretty surprised to learn they were mostly played on accordion! :disbelief: Some of the popular songs and opera melodies were in different keys, and I tended to learn them in that key and then transpose them into easier keys - G, C, A, D - so that performing them would be easier, and not be part of the learning process. The biggest thing I learned, though, had nothing to do with reading, but about playing. I took the time to find ways to interpret them, not just playing notes off a page - adding tremolo here and there, little grace notes and other small embellishments, things like that - so that my performance of them wasn't dry, but sounded like they were alive. I don't know if that adequately describes it, but something like that.

Hope this helps! :mandosmiley:

[farmerjones]

There's something similar in the front of the Fiddler's Fakebook.

https://www.msu.edu/~pierso10/Notes%20of%20the%20Treble%20and%20Bass%20Clef.html

If you had that as a "cypher" sheet beside the sheet/tune you wanted to play, then eventually you remember what's what with repetition. There's more stuff on a Treble Clef than just the notes, but that comes eventually too.

Opinion now: i don't think it helps much to know the tune before learning it from the sheet. I think a better way is to learn it from the sheet, then compare it to a recorded version. Mind you i don't site read. I may read to learn a tune then to refresh my memory, possibly.

[Hogadi]

I learned to read standard notation late in life and would say it is never too late to start and it is time very well spent. Reading and understanding some theory unlocks so many mysteries and will make you a better musician, and more comfortable in different musical situations.

That said, my take on learning to read is that it is a 3-pronged approach: theory, ear training, and repertoire. Theory provides the basics of how to read (grammar, if you will), ear training helps you hear the music when you look at sheet music, and repertoire helps you apply what you learn.

This is stuff you can learn on your own and do at your own pace. For theory I would highly recommend Music Theory for Dummies. Get past the title - this is a solid, very approachable, easily digested, inexpensive book that will teach you the grammar of reading standard notation. This will teach you all you need to know about reading both rhythm and pitch.

For ear training there is lots of software out there. I use a free product called LenMus you can get here (http://www.lenmus.org/sw/page.php?pid=noticias). This software also has a music theory piece but the part I like is the aural training. It will help you identify intervals, scales, and chords by ear. Getting in practice time is tough but with this software you can spend 15 minutes here and there working on ear training exercises. It adds up.

As far as repertoire, I second JeffD's recommendation of using a beginner violin book. Lots of them out there.

You can learn as quickly as your desire and dedication takes you. If you don't mind some advice from my own experience - don't get overly serious about it. Have fun and approach learning to read with a curious attitude and you will do well.

[Keith Witty]

Wow, thanks guys.

[demotlj]

I invested in a book by Deborah Chen on learning to read music for the mandolin which had me reading notation in just a couple of weeks. (I should mention that I already knew how to read music in general -- I just needed to learn where the notes were on the mandolin because I was finding a limited amount of classical music in tab.) Chen also has some Bach pieces on her web site along with play along mp3s.

[abuteague]

For the life of me, I could not get standard notation.
One day I was introduced to a mandolin book from Mexico with a different approach. I could read standard notation slowly that same day.

I describe it in this blog post:
http://sites.williams.edu/tmurphy/articles/music-notation-is-tab-on-the-mandolin/

This way of reading standard notation skips identifying the notes by name on the fretboard and on the sheet music. Every short cut has a cost. The cost is this: it IS useful to know the notes on the fretboard and on sheetmusic. Building chords, understanding theory, talking to an instructor... So eventually you will want to learn those things.

But it was a glorious day to suddenly be able to play standard notation.

This might work for you. I worked for me, but people are different. It is a worthy struggle. Good luck.

[catmandu2]

Me too Keith-- acquired from early music school and classical guitar studies.

This is one area where the "classical approach" to playing musical instruments is really benefiical, obviously.

As Brent mentioned, it wil only be days before you are reading lines--with fluidity gradually increasing; recognition of chords (vertically "stacked" notes) will take more time. Keep a "theory book" next to you to translate terms, time signatures, and values while you are working through the piece. There are sme "tricks" you may encounter to hasten the process--but it gets a little theoretical (concerning intervallic relationships, harmony, etc.)

As with all theoertical learning, it will stay with you always no matter the application.

[jeffo]

I have a good 35 years' experience reading standard notation on other instruments. I just started mandolin a couple of months ago and wanted to make sure I could read standard notation. So I bought a Suzuki Violin I book, figuring that if those tunes are good starter tunes for GDAE violin, than they must be good starter tunes for GDAE mandolin. I spent about 15 minutes a day on it, and after about 2-3 weeks I could play the book cover to cover. Now, I have miles to go to get any kind of decent technique, but if I'm playing a tune in C or G or D major, I can read notes about as easy as I can read this sentence. I didn't expect it to come as easily as it did (not complaining)--not sure if it was easy for me because of my experience with other instruments, or because the Suzuki thing just worked (one of the things about Suzuki is that it supposedly gets you up and running with reading REALLY fast--worked for me).

[Jim Garber]

I read quite a lot, having dived into classical over the last years. The Bach cello suites transcribed for violin would work nicely to get you reading and you would already be playing Bach. The S&Ps with some exceptions are technically much more difficult and there are some of those which don't really work on mandolin very well. Eventually you should be able to play some of those too.

if you want even simpler, try some of the Suzuki violin books. other recommendations above on this thread are pretty good too.

[Mandolincelli]

Any suggestions as to what I should use? I don't want a book with Tablature in it at all. What did you use to learn it?
Keith

I started using the "Music Notation for the Tab-Addicted Mandolinist" by Chin. I have worked my way through it and I'm now working out of a book called "Beutiful Music for Two Stringed Instruments" by Applebaum. I've been doing this since July of this year and I am amazed how well I can read after 2 months. I put in about a half hour about 3-4 nights a week. I figure I'll be able to read to tempo in about 9 months. The trick is to stick with it!

[Ken_P]

Thanks for putting all those great videos in one place, Jeff! I do feel slightly left out, though, so I'll add my own. I'm not claiming I have anything on many of those posted, but hopefully it'll be interesting to see another take anyway! As for reading music, I don't think I can offer much because I took up viola in 3rd grade, so I honestly can't remember a time where I didn't read, at least a little!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP-7jlCRia8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4haH54Q9dX0

[JonZ]

It is pretty much like learning to read words. After you get the general rules down, it is a matter of doing a lot of it--first easy, brief, slow pieces, and then progressively harder, longer and faster. I notice that when children learn to read, they do a lot of re-reading of favorite books. So, that is probably a good practice for music too. It is helpful if there is no tab on the page--to prevent eye creep.

It opens up a lot of new musical territory. The learning by ear stuff is good too.

[Perry]

I'm curious.

I can. (you asked) It's much easier then one might think.

Get a book of fiddle tunes standard only and see if you can peck through some of the ones that you know the melody to. Or maybe a book of familiar tunes like Beatles classics.

Then once you can "read' this book may help transitioning to Bach:

Twenty Studies in the First Position for Bluegrass Mandolinists, Opus 5 - $20.00 plus $4.00 S/H. Designed to improve sight-reading ability and increase understanding of classical music norms.

Just google "Lou Martin mandolin" to get to his site

[rico mando]

well timing (rhythm ) is way more important to focus on than which note to play . I STRONGLY recommend joel rothman's book teaching rhythm for all instruments and a metronome .http://joel-rothman.com/ also i recommend a teacher to help get you started .

[Aisha]

I've been playing for about a year and a half. I learn almost only with notation (could read before) and by ear -can't play Bach though but I see good suggestions here. I think it's very useful if you don't want to spend too much time in front of your PC screen converting stuff (my case) and you find a lot in notation written for other instruments (e.g. violin, flute) that you can learn, at least for folk and classical tunes.

[Pitbozz]

I am learning using the book " Reading Standard Notation " by Joe Carr.

It is available from Mel Bay Publications and comes with a CD for all the songs. My wife said she could hear the difference with my new found reading skills. It has been nice to pull some new song books out and to be able to read the notes and not have to look at numbers.

[mrmando]

There have been numerous threads on the [real and tangible] benefits or [chimerical, phantasmagorical] drawbacks of reading standard notation.

The most compelling advice I can offer is this: Mark O'Connor and John Hartford both put together fantastically successful careers for themselves and enjoyed sterling reputations as musicians, without knowing how to read music. But then both of them learned standard notation and said it had opened up new musical vistas for them.

[SincereCorgi]

I think a lot of folks on this site read mainly to learn tunes, which is totally understandable, but if you want to get really good with notation, the best thing is to find a situation where you're playing from notation in rehearsal or performance. This can be as simple as playing through a violin duet book with a friend. The idea is to develop an awareness whereby you can be reading a couple bars ahead but still playing in the moment. I mention this mainly because I've encountered a lot of musicians (mostly pianists) who can read very well solo but freak out and can't play with others. It is a great skill to have.

[Eddie Sheehy]

Get The Complete Mandolinist - Marilynn Mair. It has lots of sight-reading exercises.

[Mandolin Mick]

I learned music notation when I was 14, when I took guitar lessons. It opened the door to many other instruments like piano, bass, recorder, etc. I've never seen anything but positives on the side of reading music, unless you're chained to the notation and never learn to play by ear. In my opinion, reading is a basic fundamental in being a well rounded musician. ;)

[JeffD]

Thanks for putting all those great videos in one place, Jeff!

No intent to leave anyone out or to include anyone in particular. I just googled Bach on Mandolin and started picking from the list. I have favorites that aren't there, for sure.

The web is full of mandolin bach videos.

[Phil Goodson]

Sure. Learned to read notation in 2nd grade. Unfortunately, I don't use it often enough to be a good sight reader anymore.

[Jack Roberts]

Learning to read standard notation is quite easy and logical on the mandolin. In first position, which is where you will start, there are only 36 notes all told: 4 open strings and two notes each for each fretting finger. If you take two days per finger you'll learn all the notes in less than 3 weeks. Or spend a little more time each day and learn one string a day: you'll get all the notes down in a week. Or, pick a key, say G, learn all the notes in a G scale in a day, and pick a new scale every other day or so. In a few weeks you will have no problems.

One more thing: I found it harder to learn to count than to read notes. Quarter notes 1,2,3,4; eighth notes 1 and 2 and, etc. Take those slow and count out the rhythms first before trying to play the tunes. So practice reading the rhythm as you are learning the notes. Much of Bach is rhythmically straightforward, so it won't take that much time.

Yours is a worthy goal: good luck and congratulations on your excellent choice of instrument and composer!

[Big Joe]

I can read standard notation, but no so much it gets in the way of my playing :) . I learned to read when I was a kid, but rarely have need to. In Nashville we usually get a "chart" based on the number system, or nothing. If we are lucky someone will tell us what key they want to play in. Sometimes you just have to figure it out.

[Bertram Henze]

One of the few useful things left over from classical violin lessons. I still can play mandolin from simple standard notation but, like Joe, I don't depend on it.

[Randi Gormley]

I spent my formative years on the flute and never learned timing. Notes, now, that wasn't that hard. A basic beginner flute book showed a fingering chart and directly linked it to the note on the staff. It took time to remember the fingering while looking at the note, but it happened eventually. So when I got a mandolin and wanted to learn to play it, I got a basic mandolin book from Mel Bay and did the same thing. First page was an open E string and they showed where it sat on the staff. Then it showed (I think) and F, one finger down, and where it fell on the staff ... and the rest was just practice. In teaching myself the correlation between note and fingering, I also picked up the timing. So these days, I'm a pretty fair sight reader.
The Mel Bay book is still around (although with a different cover) because a woman I was helping learn play the mandolin picked it up (this was last year), and I was taking her through the same process I used myself. She was learning to sight read at the same time she was learning how to fret the instrument. Sort of like when I was taking a Russian language course -- I was so busy trying to memorize the words that I picked up the Cyrillic alphabet as a secondary skill.
Once you make the correlation between the fret and where it sits on the staff, you have learned to read. I skipped the part where I sub-vocalized the name of the note and just went straight to fret/note. I can sight-read most (relatively) simple single-note pieces without thinking about it, which speeds up the process. ymmv

[AnneFlies]

I learned to read standard notation back in elementary school, playing the (ugh) clarinet. When I started the mandolin recently, I used tabs, but found them irritating. I couldn't see where the music was going, and found the selection limited, so I went back to standard notation. Now I can use books like O'Neills Music of Ireland, and many others, and enjoy learning a new tune much more.

Just start by learning one simple tune in standard notation, and it will fall into place easily.

[Brent Hutto]

Once you make the correlation between the fret and where it sits on the staff, you have learned to read. I skipped the part where I sub-vocalized the name of the note and just went straight to fret/note. I can sight-read most (relatively) simple single-note pieces without thinking about it, which speeds up the process. ymmv

Highly recommended. You've got to be able to see-and-play at some point. To me saying the name in between is just putting off what you really need to be doing.

[JeffD]

There is so much music out there. I applaud the OP in his commitment. And Bach is an excellent place to start.

[Fran]

Reading (and writing) music notation is like learning to ride a bicycle: it's for life! And it's definitely a very useful skill to acquire. Because you can use it not only for mandolin, but also any other instrument! Playing by ear and using tabs is fine, but it's quite limitative, especially when you want to get into more serious music-making, like joining a community band, or taking your music to a professional level.

Which one of these statements sounds more professional:
1) could me send me MP3's so I can learn the tune?
2) do you have tabs for that?
3) could you send me the written partition?

[Perry]

I don't believe this link of Bach sheet music has been posted in this thread...yet:

Bach Sheet Music (http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/J.S.Bach.php)

[wildpikr]

Debora Chen's book, "Standard Notation for the Tab-Addicted Mandolinist" opened the door. With practice it gets easier...you're learning a new language; it takes practice to become fluent...

[JeffD]

Steve Howe (guitarist from Yes) once said, "Any Bach tune you can learn to play is the best thing you can play."

[Jim Garber]

I don't believe this link of Bach sheet music has been posted in this thread...yet:

Bach Sheet Music (http://icking-music-archive.org/ByComposer/J.S.Bach.php)

Thanks, Perry, for posting that. I use that arrangement of the cello suites for violin (http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/bach/cello_suites/vl100712.pdf) that appears on that page.

There is also a nice urtext version of the Sonatas & Partitas (http://icking-music-archive.org/scores/bach/sonatas_and_partitas/s&p.pdf).

[catmandu2]

I learned to read standard notation back in elementary school, playing the (ugh) clarinet.

Hey Anne, I remember feeling that clarinet was the uncoolest instrument in band--our sisters and girlfriends played them mostly. Forty years later, I'm suddenly finding it to be the most expressive instrument I've ever played! I'm certain it's all about the approach: when I played woodwinds in grade school, everything was from a scored sheet. Now, I play it by ear. It feels like singing. Nothing like a horn playing blues and jazz..

So that's my new thing -- clarinet charlatan, so I couldn't let your comment pass! ;)

(note to cafe-ites -- get those clarinets out of the closet and try them again--you may be surprised!)

[swampy]

I learned sometime during/after college, it wasn't terribly difficult, (not to be confused with time-consuming) and ultimately it has served me well. I don't play classical or anything, but I've been able to work through the tunes the few times I've tried. I rely on it more than tab, and I enjoy learning non-mandolin tunes/songs as well.

[roady43]

In your situation, as playing by ear: study all the music you know (and used to play without notation) by reading the score carefully whilst playing. Concentrate on rythm, timing, fingering and phrasing (etc.). This way you will learn to understand what you see and you will be surprised how advanced you actually are. Specially the rythmical structure can be easier be learned by ear and often is confusing for the beginner when sight reading. Pupils often can repeat complex stuff easily by ear and wouldn't be able to play it correctly when reading the music. So as you know the melodies already, now read them when playing and your progress will increase. Use a metronom along - regularly and follow as many of the good advices here as long not getting confused by so many opinions. Try and make your decision. Enjoy and good luck!

roady43

[AnneFlies]

Hi Catmandu2, I bought a new mouthpiece & reeds, and I DID try playing my old clarinet not too long ago. It may be a beautiful stick of wood (which mine is), but I still can't play it. At least I have my mandolins to keep me company now.

Glad to hear you're enjoying yours!

[Big Joe]

I don't like tab personally. I can read notation easier and it makes more sense. The instrument is secondary to the music itself. I often just see the relationship from one note to another more than the particular note itself. I am pretty slow at reading notation simply because I don't do it very often any more. I think it is a great skill but I have not needed to in many years. I don't find playing by ear or charts being limiting at all. Most of the music in Nashville is played that way, and that covers a very large portion of the recorded music made in the last twenty years. Whether country, rock, bluegrass, jazz, pop, swing, etc. Nashville is where a very high proportion of it is recorded. While some of the studio guys can read, some cannot and are still very busy and make great music.

I think it is only limiting if you are not as comfortable in the other forms of making music. I don't think it matters much to most whether you ask for the MP3 or the written musical notation. Even 30 years ago in other studios we just got a lead sheet that had the lyrics, the melody notation, and a chord chart all on the same page. It worked pretty well then. I guess there are more than one way to accomplish anything. There are some forms of music and group playing that may be more conducive to reading. Most orchestras would find it a bit more complicated without the written music, but then I don't play in that kind of orchestra. Anyway, just my observations.

I would encourage anyone to read if they can, but don't be limited to just reading. Many otherwise good musicians cannot play without the music in front of them. That is the most limiting thing I can imagine. I have seen many who could not sit and jam or change keys in a song because they could only play with the sheet music in front of them. The best is to be able to play by notation when needed, ear when needed, and chart when needed. Then you don't have to worry about who or what you are playing with.

[catmandu2]

Hi Catmandu2, I bought a new mouthpiece & reeds, and I DID try playing my old clarinet not too long ago. It may be a beautiful stick of wood (which mine is), but I still can't play it.

Okay okay... :(

[Ivan Kelsall]

Keith - If it's something that you really feel the need to do,then do it !. It can only be a good thing. I began taking lessons in 'Classic Banjo' 48 years ago - it was the only style of tutoring i could get & i used it to 'get me started'. I wanted to play Bluegrass,but Bluegrass pickers were ultra-thin on the ground over here in '63. My tutor taught me how to read music & i was getting pretty good at 'sight reading'. Unfortunately,my tutor passed away & i was left to go it alone. As there were no 'written' Bluegrass tuition books,i had to learn to play by ear,& that was the end of my music reading. I sincerely wish there had been some tutor books available in standard music notation,as i feel that there's a big 'plus' in being able to read music. It does give you the facility of being able to go from 'one music form to another' with less hassle than for a non-reader. Also,if the time comes when you feel that you wish to commit to paper, any pieces of music that you compose,you've got the tool to do it.
I get the impression that you're only a fairly young guy,so take your time & do it. For 66 year old me,the time's come & gone for it to make any big difference,but oh ! - how i wish......,
Ivan
75616

[BlackChris]

Hi

I used a basic mando self teach book and felt marked out the tab so i had to learn the notation - i am still at the basic stages (as fitting where i am in playing ability at the moment) but can sight read music that suits my level - it was fairly easy after the initial pain of stopping at every note to work out what it was.

Cheers

Chris

[John McGann]

A few ideas and link to free Tab Reader's Guide to Standard Notation (http://johnmcgann.com/tab.html)

[Jim]

I can read standard notation thanks to 6 years of band in school a very long time ago , however , sight reading just never happened for me. I converted countless sheets of standard to Tab by hand years before PC s & Macs could do it for you and it just doesn't seem to stick in my head. I strongly encourage others to learn to read for all of the good reasons listed by others here but looking at sheet music never seems to translate into positions on the fret board of either Mandolin or guitar nor does it substitute for hearing a tune. The thing is , I know the notes on the staff sharps flats ect. and I know the notes on the instruments but can't seem to connect the two. I've often wondered if it's a form of dyslexia.

[allenhopkins]

Read music OK, but on mandolin it's mostly useful to puzzle out the tune at "slow" speed, learn it by repetition, and then polish it, get up to speed, and improvise off the learned melody.

Forty years of playing mostly by ear have made that my preferred method of learning; sight-reading of music has become painfully slow, but still useful for learning new material.

[Jim Bevan]

If this is also just a poll, then ya, I can.

[dang]

I can read standard notation, but can't play any of it on the mandolin! Piano or Brass it is a different story, but for some reason I really just play mandolin by ear and feeling, with the occasional tab supplement.