Loar neck shape ?'s

[dan in va]

Having seen one Loar up close and personal many years ago , and after looking at many pic's, I'm still not sure about the neck shape.

Did the necks seem to have a ridge or spine down the center, or were they somewhat rounded? And did they have a rather deep profile? Was there a pretty consistent shape or was there variation among batches?

Thanks so much....dan

[Loudloar]

I've played a bunch of 'em and in my opinion the vast majority have a consistent rounded shape. There are some that have a "three piece neck", that is, with a 1/8" black dyed center strip. These have a triangle shape with a ridge down the center. My Feb. 18, 1924 is one of these. From what I know the occurrence of three piece necks is somewhat random. It's not a huge difference from the typical rounded shape, and I find both types equally playable.

Steve

[Glassweb]

Loud... you have a Feb 18th with a 3 pc. neck? Wow... I didn't know there was one! The only 3 pc neck Loars I've played have all been from 1922. Ah, Gibson... business as unusual...

[Big Joe]

The Lloyd Loar mandolins were all hand made, as was the necks. They were shaped by hand and they can be quite different from mandolin to mandolin. I have seen some with extremely small necks, and others with necks close to the size of the Bush neck. Whether they were made to order by the dealer for someone or the carver that day made them that way just because is hard to say. However, I have not seen any way to define the "Loar neck". They may fall within a certain range, but one of the most consistent things about Loar era mandolins is the inconsistency in so many things.

[f5loar]

yeap, those Loars are known for being consistantly inconsistant. I put them into 3 categories: The late '22, early '23s with fatter necks, The mid to late '23's just right necks and the mid to late '24 with necks too thin. The early '24s can be anything inbetween.
I never saw a '24 with a 3 pc. neck either or maybe I've forgotten I saw one.

[Loudloar]

Here it is guys:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=75411&d=1313527423

Steve

[Glassweb]

How about that Tom... can't say I've ever seen that before on a Feb. 18... or any other 24' for that matter.

[sunburst]

I made neck profile templates from two different Loar mandolins, first and 7th (or 8th?) frets, and I've checked those against quite a few others when I've had the opportunity, and each other neck has fit one or the other of those profiles closely enough that I haven't made any more.
When you come after the snake head, remind me and you can check them out.

[dan in va]

Thanks, I'd very much like to see that, John. And I have some Weck Cels you might like to try with CA and detailed finish work.

Hope Galax was good this year for you. I'm especially glad that you're back so you and the little A can visit on the bench. As much as I'm enjoying that D18 you did all that work on, I'm really missing the A, too.

I really appreciate all the informative posts.

[f5loar]

I dug out my Loar Photo book and did find that 75699 did have the 3 pc. neck. Strange but true. There are so many oddities to Loars it is hard to remember them all. Feb. 18 was a unique batch of Loars. Lots of changes went down that day. It was the start of the Virzi being standard and if you didn't want it you had to specifiy they leave it out vs. in 1922 and 1923 you had to pay an extra $15 to get one put in. Changes in binding and sunburst cermona color also too place on that date.

[Ken Waltham]

So, this neck appears to be a refin. I wonder if the neck is original??
Seems weird to have a three piece in the Feb 18/1924 batch...

[sunburst]

So, this neck appears to be a refin...

That is my impression too, the color is apparently sprayed in the finish rather than rubbed on the wood. The mando could have a replacement neck, I suppose.
What does this say? It looks like Sept. to me, could it be Feb.? This one has a lacquer finish, gold plated metal, and fern inlay, but has a one-piece neck with more "normal" looking Loar coloring.

[Ken Waltham]

Exactly. It is sprayed in the finish. So now, all else can be questioned.
This F5 in your picture doesn't look like a Loar colouring to me, John. Looks like a Fern, if anything. A lot of yellow, my Feb 18 is not like that at all.

[HoGo]

I'd guess Loar (or any other Gibson) necks from the same period will have very little variation between them. They were made using shapers and heavy machines to templates. The backs of F-4 necks were inlaid with black strip before final shaping so the main curve must have been very consistent and precise as the inlaid strip was quite thin and going right to the heel button.

[Ken Waltham]

For what it's worth, ( and probably not much ) here's my opinion.
They all have the same basic shape. They are narrow at the nut, 22mm I think, but, as Tom says, they do vary in girth.
For me, I find them all great, and, oddly, to feel similar, even though size may vary.
Tom, you may remember my July 9, 1923 F5. It had a small, "girly" neck, and I loved it. My next Loar, a Feb 18 was the same.
Then, some larger sizes, a couple of 23's. The Benny Cain F5 was near perfect for my taste in size. ( Mar 31, 1924)
Currently, I have another Fern Loar from the same batch as Benny, and it's neck is substantially larger, but, VERY comfortable. I love it. And from a guy who likes the smaller profile necks. Go figure.
So, to me, for a brief overview, I agree with Tom, larger earlier, pretty nice in 1923, mid to late, then getting thinner near the end.
But.... Just as my July 9 was really small, there are variations in size, but, not in shape. IMHO.
Hope this makes some sort of sense...

[sunburst]

This F5 in your picture doesn't look like a Loar colouring to me, John. Looks like a Fern, if anything. A lot of yellow, my Feb 18 is not like that at all.

Yes, it does look like a fern... all but the signed label, it's the only one I've seen that looks like a "Loar fern". The color does not look sprayed like Steve's neck above, though.

[f5loar]

Also noted that Feb. 18, 1924 75686 is also a 3 pc. neck but is side bound like the July 9th batch. It has been refinished several times. It currently will belong to the IBMA Museum in Ownesboro upon the death of it's current owner.

[Loudloar]

Yes, my Feb. 18 neck (above) has obviously been refinished by Gibson, probably mid-1930's. (One of those "courtesy" refinishes?) The back of the neck is lacquer, and the color is a dead match for some 1930's Gibson archtop guitars. It seems to be the original neck and fingerboard, and clearly the original headstock overlay. The back corners of the headstock are a bit rounded from sanding, which would seem more consistent with refinishing than replacement.

Steve