stretch fingers sideways?

[jdawson]

I am a musical instrument newbie and am trying to learn to play the mandolin. I have a very basic question and I apologize if this is on other threads. I couldn't find an answer to it by searching. I am 6'2" and have long fingers but I am having trouble stretching them across the frets. If I hold up my left hand palm facing me, stretch my fingers out, and then curl them, they all curl in towards the center of my palm (not good when compared to where they need to go on the fingerboard). So, it seems that I have to train my fingers to curl at a different angle to reach the frets OR I have to get them to stretch out sideways or some combination of both. Is this normal and just a part of starting out or am I missing something? Just playing the fifth fret with my ring finger is a sideways stretch for me, not to mention the pinky on the seventh fret. Also, I am trying to keep my fingers at an angle pointing towards my chest.

[robert.najlis]

You hold the mandolin differently than a guitar, more like a violin in many ways.

This video from Mike Marshall shouldhelp:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmagoBQunZI

[Pete Summers]

Also take a look at this YouTube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1Z0Fcfo6o&feature=related

[jdawson]

Thanks for the video links. I think I am using proper left hand placement and it is as they showed, but my fingers do not want to lay across the frets parallel to each other like that. When I curl my fingers, the tips point slightly inward towards each other. The angle gets worse with each finger moving away from my middle finger. Using my right hand, I can pull my left pinky over to be parallel with my ring finger but when I let go it snaps back to where it was. I am wondering if this is normal and I just have to train my brain/fingers to curl more parallel, or to make a sideways stretch to get the notes, or if I am going to have to make special adjustments to compensate for this. Maybe I should post a picture of my left hand on the neck.

[mr.patterson]

Do you do construction or another field that requires you to use your hands alot? It sounds to me like the tendons in your hands are very tight and they are restricting the moverment. This is usually seen in construction/labor workers or rock climbers. If this is the case it will take some stretching to lengthen and stretch out the tight tendons. Keep playing and practicing and stretch out you fingers both before and after you play.

[jdawson]

I do use my hands a lot at work, but I spend most of the time on a computer keyboard and some of the time working with simulators testing the software I write for them. Maybe it's the years of keyboard use. I tried the 2nd exercise from this thread last night:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?17932-Finger-Stretching&

I was able to force my fingers to at least reach those positions, but not even close to fretting cleanly. I could feel the stress it created in my hand afterwards too.

[Capt. E]

You really don't have to curve your fingers that much, just enough so the tip comes down on the fret without touching other courses. The angle at which you position you hand is very important as well as where your thumb rides. Watch the Mike Marshall video carefully and you will see. See how relaxed he is. Sure, you'll never have his super long flexible fingers, but there are some pretty good players who have short, thick ones.
I'm especially jealous of Mike's long pinky. I have a problem with my pinky, the last joint bends towards my ring finger and it really isn't long enough, but with time I have done OK. G chop is pretty hard, so I generally use an alternative and I still find myself sliding up the fretboard a couple of frets for many fingerings. We are individuals and the "standard methods" don't always work for everyone.

[jdawson]

Here is a picture of my left hand with fingers curled.

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The videos suggested show fingers that curl parallel to each other and not like this. Is that something you train your fingers to do in time or do I just have a weird hand?

[Randi Gormley]

How interesting. My fingers look a lot like that in that position, but it doesn't seem to be a problem for my playing since I drop my pinky and ring finger down a joint on my palm when I'm fretting. I'd suggest you get someone who plays the mandolin to help you with finger placement. Sometimes you need someone to physically place your fingers in the right place to feel what it ought to feel like. If that makes any sense.

[Kevin Stevens]

That doesn't look much different than mine. I have only been playing since February, but in time I noticed I was able to get to the frets much better. I still have some trouble getting into the full G chop chord, but getting better all the time with it. I spend a lot of time stretching my index/middle finger away from my ring/pinkie (sort of a V shape) to assist in getting my fingers to have more range.

[jdawson]

Well, it sounds like I needn't worry about doing anything special. Just time, stretching, and practice. I was hesitant to post this thread but I am glad I did. Thanks very much to all of you.

[JeffD]

Try this. Starting with that hand positoin, and point the big nuckle of your first finger forward and let the other fingers kind of fall back. Tuck in the pinky. As if you were grasping a fishing rod palm up.

Just a thought.

[jdawson]

Jeff,

Which way is forward in that picture? Left, right, up, or down when looking at the picture?

[Willie Poole]

John, if you have a golf club handy wrap your hand around it like you were going to hit a golf ball...That is sort of the same grip you need to reach the full four fingered chords....I have a problem making full chords now due to getting older so now I only play three fingered chords and they still sound OK...When making chords stretch out the pinky and ring finger and then pull back to get the other two fingers in position, it will take some practice stretching to make the chords....Try going up the neck (B chord) and working there for a while nd maybe work you way back towards the nut.....

Willie

[JeffD]

Jeff,

Which way is forward in that picture? Left, right, up, or down when looking at the picture?

That would be up, away from you.

[Phil Goodson]

John,
I think your problem has nothing to do with your anatomy and everything to do with how you approach the fingering of the strings on the fingerboard. As alluded to in post #2, you need to look at a youtube of somebody playing classical violin and think of playing the mandolin in a similar fashion. Your fingers should be almost parallel to the neck of the mando when you're playing. They should NOT be going across the neck (perpendicular to) like many people play the guitar. If you use the right technique, I think you'll do fine with your fingers (which bend pretty much the way mine do).:)

[JeffD]

.. with how you approach the fingering of the strings on the fingerboard. As alluded to in post #2, you need to look at a youtube of somebody playing classical violin and think of playing the mandolin in a similar fashion. Your fingers should be almost parallel to the neck of the mando when you're playing. They should NOT be going across the neck (perpendicular to) like many people play the guitar.

I suspect the same thing. With a little work can make my hand like John's, so there is no structural problem.

[jdawson]

Thank you very much for the help. Last night I tried turning my thumb just ever so slightly more towards the headstock and that eliminated most of the stress I was feeling on my ring finger. It seems a very small adjustment can have a big impact. I took a few lessons from a teacher that plays guitar but offers mando lessons. Everything he taught me about left hand placement was for guitar. I cancelled those lessons this week and I realized last night that I need to forget about everything he showed me. I will try to get a picture of my left hand position posted this evening. Maybe there are more small adjustments I need to make.

[jdawson]

If you view this video fullscreen you can see that this guy's pinky curls inward even more than mine. Doesn't seem to bother him at all!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igf6vgSB66U&feature=related

[JeffD]

It seems a very small adjustment can have a big impact.

This is very very true in my experience.


I took a few lessons from a teacher that plays guitar but offers mando lessons. Everything he taught me about left hand placement was for guitar. .

It happens. Most really great teachers don't try to teach beyond their expertise, but a few do. They figure, I guess, that while they aren't mandolinners predominantly, they know enough to get a complete beginner started. Whereas beginner lessons require a real expert who can get all those little things right.

[Capt. E]

The golf club grip is a good comparison as is looking at a violinists hand position. Your thumb will be at about a 45 degree angle pointing towards the nut as it rest on the SIDE of the neck (in fact, the first joint of your thumb will be at/above the nut in 1st position). Your fingers should gently curve and naturally fall at an angle to the line of the frets, almost pointing towards the bridge, not parallel to the frets. You fret strings with the tips of your fingers on mandolin instead of the pad as is often the case with guitar. Your hand should be very relaxed.

Once again, we run into a guitar teacher trying to teach mandolin. You would probably be better off finding a violin teacher who teaches mandolin. The tuning is identical, the left hand technique virtually the same as well, with the exception that you play 3 and 4 string chords with a mandolin.

[Don Raven]

I have found that if I rest the neck over the first nuckle with my hand perpendicular to the neck, then the fingers and thumbs naturally go where they are supposed to.

[jdawson]

This is how I am positioning my left hand.

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