Dampits

[glauber]

I'm struggling with my humidifier system here to keep the RH acceptable in the cruel Chicago winter. I need some parts; hopefully will get the thing working satisfactorily in a few days.

While i wait for the parts, once again i think about the "dampit" in-instrument humidifiers. Are they any good? Do people actually use them inside their mandos (or just in the case)? I'm thinking violin dampits would be about the right size for a mandolin...

My mandolin has a round soundhole, btw, not a f-hole, so i'm not even sure if the dampit would stay in place. I don't have a hard case, just a gig bag.

[mandoman4807]

While i wait for the parts, once again i think about the "dampit" in-instrument humidifiers. Are they any good? Do people actually use them inside their mandos (or just in the case)?




The short answer on do dampits work, NO. Certainly not in the northern states in winter.
You are best to humidify your home, or the room you store your wooden toys in. #I ues the German built Venta. no filters to clean, and super quiet.

Darrell

[Scotti Adams]

..you got to watch them..they dry out quick..

[glauber]

But, is it enough to refill them every day, or does it have to be more often than that? Isn't it dangerous to have them inside the instrument? Wouldn't you be concerned with humidifying the area next to it too much, and the rest of the instrument not enough?

I like the Ventas too. Expensive, but reliable.

I think if i replace the evaporator on my furnace humidifier, it should be able to keep the RH in the low 40s. It used to work, but i neglected to replace the evaporator last year.

[J. Mark Lane]

IMO a Dampit is for travel use only. It will tend to "overhumidify" the area immediately around it (even to the point of getting water stains if you aren't careful with it), and tend to do little or nothing for other parts of the instruments, like the neck, fretboard, etc. Humidify the entire room. That's the only answer that works.

Mark

[mmukav]

They DO work. You've gotta remember, anything that puts moisture back into the wood of your instruments helps.

Yea, if you've got a couple hundred bucks you can humidify an entire room. But a lot of people can't do that.

Here's a good example. I dinged my Martin HD28, put a nice
1/8th dent in the lacquer and the wood. And it was pushed in pretty deep. I was ready to take it in for repair when the furnace came on and I started to use my Damp-it on all my instruments. Do you know after 3-4 days with the Damp-it in my guitar, the moisture caused the wood to swell under that ding and actually raised the surface of the dinged lacquer, bringing it almost entirely back to the surface, at the level of the rest of the top? Now you can hardly see it, and it saved me an expensive trip to the luthier!

So if you can't humidify an entire room, humidifiers such as the Damp-it are dispensible in my opinion. They do dry out quick, but if you keep your instrument in it's case, that will help a lot. And just recharge it with water once a week or so. Make sure to squeeze the excess water out and dry off the outside of it to prevent problems like water stains inside the instrument. I've used them for several years and never had a problem.

[Stillpicking]

The last post is right on about getting the extra water out of the damp it. A friend of mine over used a damp it on his guitar and created a real mess of the inside of his Guild. I havn't used a damp it in any of my instruments in about 25 years and they all look #and work fine. I also live in the NE but all of my instruments are kept in their hard cases when not played except for my metal resonator mando which lives in a gig bag. Force air heat in the NE is the killer, so keep your instruments as far from the hot air vents as possible.
Our current house has radiant baseboard water heat and the humidity is rather easy to control although it is lower in the heating months but I still don't use any extra humidity in the instrument.
I beleive there is a variety of levels of humidity for each level of your house depending on the type of heat sys. #Buy a humiditstat for the room you keep your instruments in and get a hard shell case for each and keep the case closed even when you take out the instrument to play, that way #the level of humidity in the case will not drop. I am not a scientist or heating expert just have developed the above habits and it has worked for me.
Good luck to all of us who are about to face another winter of snow ice dams and ...........!

[PaulD]

I use Dampits and have not damaged any guitars or mandos with them. I'm not finding my Dampit instructions, but it seems that they specifically warn you to squeeze the excess water out and dry off the tube before putting it in the instrument. As stated, they do dry out, and if you don't play the instrument regularly it's hard to remember to keep them charged up. As a poor-man's humidifier or if you only have a couple of instruments I think they're a great way to go. Eventually I would like to set up a music room, put a small, dedicated humidifier in there, and leave the instruments on the wall or stands.

Since I had my Flatiron 1sh (pancake) start to come apart due to dehydration, I bought a hard case for it. I used a Dampit to rehumidify it and swell all the wood back into place, then reglued the back seam and one of the side-to-back joints. Hopefully the combination of the case and the Dampit will keep it from failing again.

Paul Doubek

[acousticphd]

glauber,

If you already have some dampits, they should help if used if your soundhole. I do agree that humidifying the house/room is the ideal approach, but when I lived in Utah - very dry all year long - one or two humidifying devices in a case or even a gig bag helped quite a bit. I had a couple store-bought dampits, but I made a bunch more for free out of pieces of sponge put into perforated ziplock snack bags. I used one or two per instrument case, one in the case and another suspended in the soundhole. I didn't try putting something within the body of an f-hole style instrument. Obviously any device should be damp only, never dripping wet, and never touching the instrument in a way that the moisture can wick directly to the wood. If it's very dry they do need rewetting every several days and need rewetting.

[glauber]

Well, i got the new evaporator and cleaned a lot of crud out of the furnace humidifier. Let's see how that works; hopefully it will be ok.

I'll pick up a couple of dampits when i come within buying distance of a music store.

[manjitsu]

Hey glauber-

I'm also in the clutches of the cruel NE winter (CT) and I tend to agree with mandoman4807...the best answer is humidifying the entire room or, if money is no matter, the entire house.

A room humidifier like the German Venta that mandoman4807 mentions (which I have also been very pleased with, and which has a ten year warranty and no filters to change) has been working for me very nicely, and maintaining my instrument room at around 40-50% relative humidity.

However, the Venta doesn't provide a means for measuring relative humidity...depending upon how precise you care to be, measuring humidity can require anything from a calibrated sling psychrometer to an el-cheapo Radio Shack +/- 5 degree digital hygrometer.

...I tend to think that as long as your instruments are in the 35-50 % relitve humidity range, they'll be happy.

Just my $.02!

C. Rorrer

[Michael Lewis]

In the long run the whole house humidifier is the economy move. So it costs a couple hundred bucks, one guitar repair from severe dehumidification can go way over that. Dryness causes the wood to shrink across the grain which sets up a huge shear load against glue joints of braces, bridges (flat top guitars), top and back to side seams, etc. and also causes tops and backs to split. Not only does this damage cost money to be repaired but having repairs can devalue some expensive instruments. Now how expensive does that humidifier sound?

[glauber]

In the long run the whole house humidifier is the economy move. So it costs a couple hundred bucks...
I agree with you, even though it's really closer to $500. But don't forget to maintain the thing (clean up the scaly deposits and replace the evaporator once a year).

[Avi Ziv]

After suspecting some damage because of insufficient humidity, I took an instrument to Mandolin Brothers for analysis. They explained to me their "trash bag" method humidifying instruments and so we modified it as follows: We bought very cheap (less than $10) thin transparent garment bags - one with a zipper that closes the bag completely. we put the instrument inside the garment bag and hang the whole thing from a wall-hanger. At the bottom of the bag we inserted a couple of good size plastic containers with large damp sponges and holes punched in the container tops. You can get a pack of 4 containers for 99c at your supermarket. The instruments have been in there for a couple of weeks now and the humidity measures in the low 50's. Now we can not only display our instruments (good for inspiration) but have quick access to them.

Seems to work so far

Avi

[wayfaringstranger]

Humidifying your home is a good idea, but mandos still get dry, and sometimes you need to get a little moisture back into them (which should be kept in its case when it's not being played) Here's my method; it's dirt cheap, and it seems to work great. You will need:

- a film can (one per instrument case)
- a kitchen sponge, cut into pieces that will fit into a film can.

Punch holes in the side, bottom, and lid of the film can. Wet sponge in sink, then wring it out until it's damp but not dripping. Put sponge in film can. Put film can in case. Re-wet as necessary.

john

[Avi Ziv]

I also use the film canister method that John mentioned. It's better than nothing but (at least in my case) the only place I can fit it is in in the peghead well. I'm not sure how effective it is in humidifying the body of the instrument. I use it in addition to a dampit when I travel.

Avi

[markdavenport]

anyone famliar with the plastic
cases with the clay in it?? has
a lid with 3 holes in it... seems like
a more expensive version of the
film can

[kudzugypsy]

i'm sure someone makes this, maybe you folks could point me in the right direction. i'd like to have a small basic (i.e. inexpensive) humidity guage to put in each one of my cases, as some of them stay in the house, yet others are on the road a lot (in and out of cars, bars, etc)
i've never had problems with my mandos, but i have 2 martins that have cracked bridges (across the bridge pins) that came from drying out.

OK, i just read another post saying someone got a Holmes at Sears for $4, guess i'll check em out.

[kudzugypsy]

i have a "funny" humidity control story that happened to me years ago. i was living in a small apartment with radiator heat and was worried about my instruments drying out. a wise old friend told me that he would often put his guitars in the bathroom after he'd taken a hot shower. so in my dumb youth, i thought i would do the same, putting my guitar in the shower after a good steamy bathe. one morning i woke up all droggy and reached in to turn on the hot water and while brushing my teeth, suddenly realized that my guitar was still in there!!! (this was a NICE old pre-war D-18) panic set in but i grabbed some wire cutters, cut the strings off, got as much water out, and set it out to dry. i was just CERTAIN that the whole thing was going to fall apart when the glue let go, but to this day, it still remains a cannon.

[J. Mark Lane]

Oh my God. I just about had a heart attack just reading that. (I've always wanted a pre-War D-18...but I think I'd prefer a dirty one.)

[Yellowmandolin]

I have a small black humidifier in my Calton that has a little green sponge in it. I bought it used, but I think it came with it. Anyway, I put some water in it and it soaks in. However, it only lasts about 2 days before I have to refill it. Anyone else experience this?

[acousticphd]

to this day, it still remains a cannon.

Maybe if we simply submerge each instrument briefly, 2-3 times a year .... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[glauber]

i'm sure someone makes this, maybe you folks could point me in the right direction. i'd like to have a small basic (i.e. inexpensive) humidity guage to put in each one of my cases, as some of them stay in the house, yet others are on the road a lot (in and out of cars, bars, etc)
Radio Shack makes a unit that's popular with musicians. It has digital temperature and humidity readings, and keeps tracks of maximums and minimums. I think it costs $14.

By the way, my "fine" furnace humidifier is still not working... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif I'm deciding if i call a tech or go to the hardware store to buy a really big sledge hammer. I got a humidifier for the guitar, but still haven't found a violin dampit for the mando. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[kudzugypsy]

hey, dont forget tony rice's herringbone was submurged after the big flood of 92 down in florida. i heard he had to get somebody with scuba gear to go retrieve it.

[Eric F.]

What has worked very well for me is a product called Mr. Misty. It fits behind the shower head. You turn the shower on very low and get a fine mist all day. It does not use much water and it has kept the humidity in nearby bedrooms at an acceptable level. Nothing to clean or refill, and it cost about $40 online.

[Don Grieser]

I use the Guardfather(??) film can with clay. It seems to hold the moisture a lot longer than a sponge. I punched a lot more holes in it, till my in-case humidity gauge read an acceptable
level. The ones Elderly sells don't soak up the water the way
the ones FQMS sells (the Guardfather??). I don't think any of
the in-case humidifiers work in gig bags or cases that don't
seal up good like my Calton does. My .02

[mikeyes]

Home Depot (and I am sure others too) sells both the humidity/temp meter (about $12-$14) and a variety of humidifiers from $39 on up. I have a small room that houses all of my instruments, has a piano, a stool to play on, stands and a desk. In short, my teeny humidified music room which serves my purposes well. It is no problem to keep the room at 40% humidity or more throughout the winter and it is a lot easier than filling 15 Dampits every day.

I learned this trick when I was visiting my inlaws in Colorado last winter and we went of a music store that had several humidifiers going at the same time. The owner showed me a Martin guitar that cracked before he went this route. He says the investment was cheap considering the consequenses.

Mike Keyes

[glauber]

I got a violin dampit (weird thing) for the mando, and a nice Planet Waves humidifier for the geetar. Someone should come fix the humidifier on fryday. Meanwhile, the RH in the closet where the instruments are is at 45% due to the use of dual slow evaporators (aka cofee mugs filled with water). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif I think i'll be ok.

[wayfaringstranger]

There's also the tried-and-true "pan of water on the radiator" method. Worked for me when I was in grad school and saving for my first real mandolin. I had to supplement the heat in my old, drafty apartment with plastic wrap on the windows and one of those oil-radiator space heaters. Ah, those were the days.

John

[Bob A]

I have two original dampits, of brownish tubing and a sort of papertowel insert , which I've used for more than 20 years. The new green ones seem to dissolve after several years' use, and the spone insert tends to take in more water than it can hold, then release it inside the instrument. They MUST be squeezed out and wiped before insertion.

Last few years I use them only for travel; room humidification is good enough for winters in Maryland.

[Michael Lewis]

I second what BobD said about squeezing the loose water out of your humidifiers. You want water vapor, not water liquid, in your instrument. Liquid water in your instrument will cause swelling of any wood that it comes into contact with, and softening of glue. This can cause some real damage if you aren't careful.

[glauber]

Well, the dampit is inside my lovely mando, right now, and i'm not sure it i'm less or more worried about it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif But i checked it a few times and i'm pretty sure it's not dripping (i squeezed it inside a towell after dunking it in filtered water for half a minute). It doesn't seem to hold a whole lot of water, though, probably needs to be refilled every other day or so. It's being held in place between the D and A strings (round hole mandolin, not f-hole). Meanwhile, the visit from the humidifier technician was postponed to monday.

[Avi Ziv]

The humidity in my house (NJ) has been around 35% lately, and so last night I went out to Sears and bought a 3.5 gallon warm mist humidifier. It's claims to humidify a space up to 800 square feet. My living area is about 450 sq. feet but very open to the rest of the house so I had some doubts. I turned it on last night and this morning the room was at 50% . I was running it on the low setting (there is low and high) and so I feel I have some more headroom to battle February. This is very good news. It's an ultra quiet humidifier with no fans and not white dust either. It was on sale for$59.99. Just thought I'd pass this information along in case you are thinking of one.

Avi

[J. Mark Lane]

Avi,
I think that's the same one I have. I've been using it for two years now (having gone through quite a few different ones). I found there to be a very substantial difference between November (or December) and January/February. If your living room can be closed off from other parts of the house, it may keep the rh above 35% in Feb. Maybe. If it is not closed off, I doubt it very much. I don't keep my instruments in the living room. I keep them in a small "studio" that is less than half the size of your living room. It works ok. Do note, however, that if you have the kind with a "wick" (they call it an "absorbtion sleeve") you have to replace that now and then. We have "hard" water here, and I replace it two or there times during the winter. I also scrub the element and surrounding area at the same time. There is maintenance required, or the unit will function poorly. Since this can be after a couple of months of use, that is, at the same time as the outside rh is dropping, it is particulary important to stay on top of it.
Mark

[Avi Ziv]

Mark,

Yes, it does sound like the same unit. I have had the smaller version in the bedroom for about a year now, and so I'm used to checking and changing the wick as well as cleaning the heating element. The water here is not that hard and so a couple of cleanups/changes a season are good enough here. However, you may be right that in Feb I could wish for more humidity, and at that point I may move the instruments into the bedroom. it's easier to close it off. I do find that having instruments out, and not in cases, inspire me to just pick them up and play whenever something comes into my head. I am all for removing as many obstacles to self expression. By the way, I also have a 29 gallon aquarium in the living room so that's another source of humidity, even if the water evaporates rather slowly.


Good luck to all of us, helping the instruments survive.

Avi

[glauber]

By the way, I also have a 29 gallon aquarium in the living room so that's another source of humidity, even if the water evaporates rather slowly.
Of course, this could be fixed with a couple of heaters. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[TeleMark]

Well, my mother-in-law was telling us about some furniture she had when she was younger... Every year they used to empty the dressers out and toss them into the pool and leave them there for a few days. They would then fish them out, let them dry for a day or two, and bring them back in. Before the pool treatment, they were loose and unstable, and afterwards, they were nice and solid.

You don't need a big pool to recondition a mando!

TeleMark