Is an Eastman 515 worth the extra $$$ over a Loar 500/600???

[martin77]

In my search for a decent mandolin this is the question I currently find myself asking. My budget is more realistically between $600 - $700 but I've seen a few videos and heard a few sound clips of the Eastman 515 and I love the tone, it's really tempting to try and stretch the budget a little. I've searched for info and one thing that concerns me is that I have heard about separation occuring, which makes me wary to buy 2nd hand. What do 515 owners think, how has it matured ect? I would consider the md505 if I found a really great sounding one, but I'm going to be honest and admit I'm a sucker for the scroll. I really like what i've heard/seen of The Loar and for less than the cost of the 515 I could get a 500/600 with a cumberland accoustic bridge. If it were you, where would your money go?

[Stephen Perry]

If you like the sound of the MD515, then it is worthwhile. They are different instruments.

For me, it depends mainly on what basic instrument I like best. I'll do whatever I want to get the instrument of my choice working best. This would, on any of these instruments, include at least a better bridge.

I like the MD505 better than any of those! But they're all good. I'd like to really go through an LM500. Impressive. I like the one I have in hand.

[Markus]

Can you get both in your hands, or at least try a mandolin by each maker? Basics like the neck shape and width color my opinion about what I like in mandolins and if considering Eastman/Loar one may feel much better to you.

In terms of the Eastmans, I've A/B'ed a 505 and 515 [and some 815's] and would have ranked one of the 815's and the 505 as the nicest sounding instruments and both played easily. Not to knock the 515, but if you can get over the no-scroll you won't get a lesser mandolin in terms of quality.

[CES]

I agree with Markus that they're different instruments. I've preferred Loar to Eastman in my limited comparisons, but that's mostly because I like the Loar neck and frets a little better (they're both a little beefier). I think they both make very good products and that either would serve you well.

If you can, try one of each to get a sense of the feel of their necks. The tone will vary as will the set-up from instrument to instrument, but the general feel of the neck profile should be fairly consistent. Either should be easy enough to sell if you decide to later...

Good luck, all are good choices IMO, just try to choose the one that fits you best. FWIW, it took me a few mandolins and ultimately a trek to a store that had a good selection to figure out what I like, and that's probably still evolving...

[goldtopper]

Had the Eastman, sold it, got the Loar 600 and have been extremely satisfied in every way. Best value in mandos that I've played. And it just gets better and better.

[martin77]

Thanks for the replies. I have played a The Loar and liked it, although I don't know what model it was. Have never played an Eastman, I would definately want to play another model at the very least just to get a feel for the neck. It's very intereting to hear that some people actually rate the 505 over the 515. If that is really the case then I would probably look more seriously at the 505 than t

[Verne Andru]

Of the limited number of mando's I've tried, I've liked the tone of an Eastman 515 the best. I've not tried a Loar yet, but I did recently get a Loar LH300 archtop guitar and it's quite stellar, especially considering the price.

[Laird]

I love my 515, though I had Stephen put in a new bridge and nut (while he doin' the voodoo that he do so well!). No separation, but it's only four years old.

[Mike Bunting]

I tried a friend's 515 at a jam recently and was quite taken aback at what a great bluegrass voice it had, I didn't expect it to sound that good. The The Loar 520 that I sampled recently was to my ear loud, but kind of harsh and unrefined.

[Stephen Perry]

I can't see any reason why an MD515 would come apart. There was one fellow doing thin glue for a couple of weeks, those instruments took a while to run through. Mostly MD514 mandolins.

I like the MD515. I have a few I'll set and record when I get around to it - reorganizing the shop at the moment!

[JeffD]

As I have said elsewhere (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?71154-In-praise-of-an-Eastman) I am very impressed with the Eastman 505 I played on.

[CES]

Jeff, read through the thread from March...

I've had that kind of experience with both a LM 700 and a J Bovier comparable to the 700 (can't remember the model), but am waiting to have that "Wow, this thing is great!" moment with both Eastman and Kentucky. I know it's just my sample size, because I've talked to and heard on here of many who have found real gems within their lines. I've played many within both lines that were very good, but not yet one that's genuinely better to my hand and ear than my Silverangel Econo. It'll happen at some point but just hasn't yet.

I'll also admit to being very surprised with a sub 500 dollar Morgan Monroe acoustic/electric I played a few weeks ago...that thing was spectacular for the price, and would have been good regardless of the price...

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

I'm in the Eastman camp here. I played a few of each, but the feel and the tone were just more comfortable and enjoyable on the Eastman. The feel I like has and will change again, but I really like the sound of it, it just seemed snappier and more alive than the loars . Of course that's subjective and etc etc.

[Theo W.]

I love my Eastman 815... I've never played a 515, but if it's anything like an 815. Get one! I haven't tried any of the The Loars though. Morgan Monroes do have a nice tone also! (Sometimes)

[Bill Monroe's Sideburns]

+1 for Eastman. If you can afford to add a Cumberland Acoustics Bridge, it is worth it. Mine is all the mandolin I will ever need.

[rynando]

They're all different. Even two of the same model will sound very different. Eastman/Loar/Whatever, you really need to play a bunch to find the "good one" in a sea of duds. More times then not it seems like the "good one" is often one of the cheaper mandolins in the pile.

[Fstpicker]

...I'd like to really go through an LM500. Impressive. I like the one I have in hand.

I played Steve's LM500 last week and I was impressed! I also played an Eastman 815 that Steve has in stock, and while it was an excellent sounding mandolin for sure, I guess I just wasn't "wowed" by it. I preferred the Loar LM-500's sound personally. Neither was better sounding than the other IMO...they just sounded different from each other.



Jeff

[Stephen Perry]

Different players prefer different sounds and other parameters. Different players get different things out of specific instruments. Instruments sound different to the player compared to people out in front. Specific setup, bridge, and the like make a great deal of difference. Players tastes often change over time.

Finding the great instrument in a sea of duds seems a good idea, until one watches a range of people do that. Once person's dud is another's great find.

[Big Joe]

I am certainly a fan of the Loar mandolins. They are my choice for an instrument in the price range for sure. I have worked on quite a few Eastman's over the years. I personally think they were much better instruments a decade ago when they were really just getting their foot in the door. The ones I seen from the last number of years have not been as good as the earlier ones. I have had to work on a fair number with loose glue joints as well. This is especially true on the top/ rim or back/ rim mostly near the tail of the mandolin. This is not really a big problem but it means you have to have it fixed. Certainly this is not on all Eastmans, and any instrument can have a problem. However, there have been enough of them with this issue that it seems to be an area of concern for this brand.

Overall the Eastman has proven to be a good mandolin, but I don't think they have the same potential as the Loar instruments I've seen. Side by side I have not seen one that I felt was as good as the Loars. That, of course, is my opinion and applies to me. You have to make that final determination yourself. The one think I really have liked about the Loars is that they are consistently good. Any of these import mandolins need a good setup and a good bridge to get its full potential. Once that is done it is really a personal issue as to tone and volume and what one wants to hear. They are both good mandolins and have the capacity to grow with someone over a good period of time. When the Eastman first hit the market they were head and shoulders above the competition. However, there are some good competitors on the scene now. Just as with most other products that the US has started to build in China, they have become better with each generation of the product. The Chinese are smart people with good work ethics and are willing to learn how to do the job right. The quality of the product coming from there has certainly improved by light years over the last 15 years!

[Stephen Perry]

And things are reversing. Now I can get a good US made production violin I can sell at $2000. I expect that once things come home to roost in China (bad loans, theft by corrupt officials, currency manipulation, excess 'investment' in redundant infrastructure, environmental impact) we will see either or both Chinese goods soar in price or the supply dry up.

The biggest problem I've faced on imported mandolins lately has been very bad fretwork on one of the brands mentioned above, in guitars and mandolins. I've not seen the seam separations Big Joe reports in the Eastman line. I have seen modest quality variations in the lines I carry.

The biggest problem remains getting the models I want when I want them.

[Fstpicker]

In all fairness, I didn't spend nearly as much time playing the Eastman 815 as I did the Loar LM-500VS, so my very short evaluation is not a truly fair or impartially objective one, and shouldn't be allowed to taint the opinion of anyone looking into these excellent mandolins. Someday, I hope to spend more time playing the Eastman mandolins when they become available closer to home.

Jeff

[rscobb]

I looked hard at both the Eastman 515 and also The Loar LM-600-VS and I loved them both Based on where I am with my playing, The Loar worked well for me.

[bluegrassdan]

I have a 2005 515 and it just doesnt do it for me. It is towards the treblely side and a local luthier couldnt get it set up to be more woody. Maybe it would have opened up more but the initial sound gave me no desire to pick it up alot. A year ago I made a Saga A kit and the Eastman never leaves the case.

[Stephen Perry]

Bridge makes a difference, so do many other things.

Biggest problem I have with mandolin evaluation is that I'm not where many mandolins put the sound out! I play them at one of my big windows to tell if that's going on.

[Folkmusician.com]

Biggest problem I have with mandolin evaluation is that I'm not where many mandolins put the sound out! I play them at one of my big windows to tell if that's going on.

I am with Stephen, if you are not directing some of the sound toward you, you may not be hearing what that particular mandolin really sounds like. My bench has a metal pegboard backing that makes a great reflector. It can be difficult to tell what the mandolin sounds like in a big open room if you’re the one picking it.

[Stephen Perry]

Exactly. This seems quite true of guitars, mandolins, and violins. The deep bass instruments don't seem to have that issue as much. And I didn't really find that problem with winds, just had to discount the minor hiss and playing noises. But some of these stringed instruments are quite demanding to evaluate.

The easiest seemed to be a pipe organ. The player is inside the instrument - the instrument is the room!

Another aspect. In violins, I notice most players initially want a warm, mellow, forgiving instrument. I mention some weaknesses in this type of choice, but rarely get listened to. After a couple of years, they're back. Something is wrong with the instrument. It's muddy, sluggish, won't project, and is generally unsatisfactory. The instrument is the same. Then they step up to something crisp, consistent, plays up the neck, more power, etc. Eventually some people want an intensely powerful and responsive instrument. Those do cost a lot of money.

Growth as a musician contours desires, as does the venue. Same with driving. Most people like to start with a mid-powered, automatic transmission, comfy car. Eventually, a fair number like a decent driver's car. A BMW or whatever today's decent driver's car is. A certain few end up in more controlled performance environments using a fast car. The starter driver prefers the starter car. Actually, the starter driver probably couldn't drive the advanced car safely!! Would think it was a terrible car. Would reject it in favor of the starter car. This happens in instruments all the time.

Setup and break in make such a difference, too. For an impartial evaluation, one would really like instruments that have been set up and maintained for a couple of years, played about the same amount, and played at the skilled listeners blind. That's a much more fair test.

I like them both, The Loar, Eastman, low end Breedlove, etc. They're different. Unfortunately they're also each different from what the players generally think they're hearing while playing, and also different from when they're thoroughly gone through and upgraded, and from what they'll be in 5 years.

[Paul Cowham]

Growth as a musician contours desires, as does the venue. Same with driving. Most people like to start with a mid-powered, automatic transmission, comfy car. Eventually, a fair number like a decent driver's car. A BMW or whatever today's decent driver's car is. A certain few end up in more controlled performance environments using a fast car. The starter driver prefers the starter car. Actually, the starter driver probably couldn't drive the advanced car safely!! Would think it was a terrible car. Would reject it in favor of the starter car. This happens in instruments all the time.

Apologies for hijacking the thread a little, I agree with what you say Stephen, but I can comfortably say that as someone who has been playing the mandolin roughly the same length of time as I have been driving that I am still on a starter car, which justified the purchase of a heiden mandolin - I would much rather have a great mando and old banger than the other way round :mandosmiley:

[pager]

I love my Eastman 515. It gets as much use on the road as my Collings F. My Eastman is an early model with a serial number in the low 20's. I have had it for 6 years. No problems with it yet, and it has been hauled in a large tour bus and played all over the US. I do like the new Loar line, but I still prefer the sound of my Eastman. At this point, my 515 and my Collings serve me well.

jilly

[bjewell]

I find the Loar to be more authentic looking and feeling. I'm not too wild about the construction techniques in Eastman products and have found their mandos to be a bit plinky. I've owned an 815 and a 915.

[Stephen Perry]

What specifically about the construction concerns you?

Both lines look to be authentic modern production mandolins to me!

Both lines have plenty of followers. They're nicely different - just what we generally want in a range of products from different suppliers. I haven't seen any real construction or other problems, other than teething problems originally. The designs of all these standard imports seems decent enough. After examination and working on a wide range of instruments, there are only a couple of makes I would really prefer not to work on.

It's not really, in my mind, an objective this is better, or that one is. At least for the brands we've covered here. Different people prefer different things. Or the same people prefer different things at different times.

* The heard sound to the player is different from the projected sound
* The solo sound that's warm and pleasing may not do so well with other instruments mixed in, and vice versa
* Setup and break in make a great deal of difference
* Replacing the marginal bridges makes a big difference
* Additional work as I do and I presume many others do makes a substantial difference in tone quality
* The skill level of the player plays into the matter
* The skill level of the listener makes a difference
* The individual instruments vary somewhat; observations on just a few instruments really don't tell the story

[pefjr]

To get the best out of an instrument I have to play with the settings for a long time to really tweak out the personality. I don't think a fair assessment can be made playing various mandolins in a shop. In the shop it's more of a feel you get than a sound. Get the pretty one, take it home and caress the sound out, change every known sound effect to suit you. Course you will have to know something about set-up or you will be unhappy until someone else does it for you. You are really talking about very similar instruments but with different potentials. Does this sound familiar? I better hide this post from the wife.

[tprior]

Well I have both, bought the Loar new for my wife and the Eastman used but it was basically brand new. I don't think you could go wrong with either. They both play fine and are nice quality. My wife prefers the Loar and I slightly prefer the Eastman...I paid about the same for both. Is the Eastman, new, worth $400 more than a Loar 500 ? Probably not...

just my take