View Full Version : can you identify this mandolin...
hey guys, can you help me identify this mandlin. ive got it last month from my granffather and he told me that his grandfather bought it in Italy... it should be 150 years old more or less...
thanks it would mean a lot...
dror
7334673347
MikeEdgerton
Jun-16-2011, 1:32pm
I'll start out. It's not 150 years old.
Isn't that the kind of mandoline banjo Adam used when he was courting Eve?
Kidding. My guess is it's made around 1930 +/- 10
MikeEdgerton
Jun-16-2011, 1:57pm
That would be the age range. If he removes the resonator he might find a label and a date inside.
allenhopkins
Jun-16-2011, 4:26pm
Early-mid 20th century, IMHO. There are more of these European-made mandolin-banjos floating around than I would have thought. Lots of them seem to have decorated resonators. Take a look here (http://www.banjoworld.de/High242a.htm) for three pages of photos of inlaid or painted mandolin-banjo resonators. Most of the instruments have the same slotted headstock as yours.
I concur with Mike E's suggestion: if you can remove the resonator, there may be a label or nameplate on the inside of the shell.
You can't just remove the resonator without taking apart the whole instrument. You have to remove the strings and the rim first. Most probably the neck is attached to the resonator. You could take a peep through the holes in the aluminium rim.
MikeEdgerton
Jun-16-2011, 10:23pm
You can't just remove the resonator without taking apart the whole instrument. You have to remove the strings and the rim first. Most probably the neck is attached to the resonator. You could take a peep through the holes in the aluminium rim.
OK, and so?
Ron McMillan
Jun-17-2011, 12:59am
OK, and so?
I thought that was guite useful information, especially since the original poster seems to be very unfamiliar with this type of instrument. Heck, I've never set eyes on one of these and I found the information about its construction interesting.
rm
in futher invastigation of the instrument ive found that my familiy bought it in 1911....
hey guys, im not going to take it apart , but from what ive manage to see from peeking inside of the rim the only thing that is written inside is:
" AGATINO - fabrica strumenti musicali a corda"
"PATANE' Catania - Via Formai 4 (traversa anastasi)"
"vasto assortimento di mandolini""
OK, and so?
Whai I meant to say is: It's not like a normal banjo where you can easily remove the resonator. With these instruments the resonator is part of the construction.
Glad you found it useful blueron and as I can read the TP has already found some information re the brand.
MikeEdgerton
Jun-17-2011, 7:34am
The point I'm making is that if taking it apart gets you what you need then you should have someone disassemble it. 1911 still seems early for this, I question the date. The flange style that was duplicated by the maker didn't become popular until later. Honestly, if the head was to be damaged you would have to disassemble it. If you want to play it you have to restring it. It's not that big a deal. I think it was manufacured later than 1911.
To put this in some historical context, look at the banjos in Frank Ford's www.frets.com Museum here (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Museum/museum.html). Scroll down and look for the oldest and follow them up through the years. You're going to see the flange that this banjo was styled after come into being after about 1921. The flange will develop until it starts to resemble this even later. The person that built this mandolin banjo was styling the front (at least) after what he was seeing. He wasn't innovating. His artwork was the back, not the front. I'm going to guess that it was probably more like 1930 when it was built.
Again, the only place there might be a label is inside. You've read the manufacturer so you know where it was built. You really can't date it until you eliminate the possibility of it having a date inside.
Ike57
Jun-17-2011, 12:57pm
I have to agree with Mike. It's not that I don't want to believe the 1911 story but maybe the family has got the date wrong. I mean: If someone can remember it was bought in 1911 that person should be over 100 years old now.
It really looks like a (more or less) 1930 style mando banjo. The way Mike put this in historical content is correct in my opinion.
Maybe the TP could do some further investigation in the family circle.
Elementary my dear Watson :)
brunello97
Jun-17-2011, 1:15pm
This is an interesting instrument for me. I have three dozen Catanese builders in my files, but this is the first example from Agatino Patane. I have seen one of his guitars before, but never a mandolin.
If there is any chance of getting a clear photo of the label I would greatly appreciate it.
Mick
MikeEdgerton
Jun-17-2011, 1:46pm
Mick, have you got any idea as to when he was active?
brunello97
Jun-17-2011, 4:18pm
I don't, Mike, but I wish I did. I am fascinated with the whole culture of luthiers down there in Sicily. From my general understanding, their big wave of building was a bit later than the first surge of Roman and Neapolitan mandolins. Puglisi is the exception, of course, as they were building before the turn of the century. A lot of stylistic copying from the mainland, but also some exciting design invention. I think you guys who are guessing mid/late '20s, maybe early '30s on this are probably on target. Seeing the label might be helpful as type-fonts and graphic design was going through a lot of changes in this period as well.
Here is an image of the Patane guitar I have in my files. I don't know a lot about guitars but the style certainly looks much later than '11. Not that it has much particular bearing on the banjolin in question. Certainly the firm could have been in operation for a couple decades. But the 'vasto assortimento di mandolini' line makes me wonder if they were builders or merchants. I'd love to find out more.....
Mick
But the 'vasto assortimento di mandolini' line makes me wonder if they were builders or merchants. I'd love to find out more.....
Mick
Made me wonder too.
I don't know Italian (or I could say: my Italian is just as good as my Russian :) ) but here's what Google translate has to say:
fabbrica strumenti musicali a corda = Factory (of) stringed musical instruments
vasto assortimento di mandolini = wide assortment of mandolins
Maybe they were both: Builders AND merchants.
(Nice guitar BTW Mick!)
MikeEdgerton
Jun-17-2011, 6:23pm
The guitar is much later than 1911, but I assume the luthier was in business for a few decades. The guitar is probably more 40ish or newer. The sun doesn't rise and set on Gibson but they tend to follow popular trends that are good ideas. A quick look through the Gruhn book shows cutaways in the late 40's. They may have had them earlier but I didn't see them. Maybe one of the Gibson experts can put a date on that.