Good beginner mandolin

[jdawson]

Hello everyone,

I have never played any instrument, but I have wanted to learn to play the mandolin for several years now. I love the way they sound and the music that fits them. I am ready to buy one and take lessons if needed to learn the basics. I want to make sure I get a good sounding and comfortable mandolin to begin with so that my enthusiasm for learning stays very high. I have done some research and it seems a couple of the Kentucky F types are likely candidates for my first mandolin due to sound quality and comfort in playing. I am considering the KM-600, but there is no local dealer for them. I am trying to resist the temptation of ordering a KM-1000 as it seems most everyone is happy that has one. More money than I really want to spend and I am a bit leary of diving in so deep when I don't know what I am doing yet though. I will obviously be needing the seller to set it up for me, so does anyone have suggestions on what and where to buy?

All input greatly appreciated

[yankees1]

A good mandolin instructor is highly recommended from someone who was in your shoes less than two years ago! I started with an Eastman 505 and like you I didn't want to invest a lot of money in a mandolin, especially if I decided to give it up! However, I'm still playing and have been upgrading to better mandolins ( Old Wave and Mowry). Make sure you receive a good setup and I highly recommend buying from a reputable shop . Several advertise on this site such as themandolinstore.com which is a great place for sales and service! Good luck!

[Rdawsoniii]

There are a lot of options out there for a good beginner mandolin. I just purchased one for myself to mess around with (I normally play banjo).

Other good mandos include:

Eastman 305 (if you can find one!) at about $399
The Loar LM220 (bought one for my daughter)...about $349
The Loar LM300 (which is what I bought for myself)...about $419

As has been mentioned...be sure to buy from a place like the Mandolin Store or Folk Musician as a proper set-up is vitally important.

[jdawson]

yankees1,

Thanks for the input and well wishes. Obviously the Eastman 505 was good enough to keep you interested. I am only leaning towards an F style because I think it would be more comfortable for me to handle, which it seems to me would be important when starting out. Unfortunately, there are very few dealers for any brand mandolins here locally (Pensacola, FL), so I am limited to buying online and hoping I choose wisely. I have heard repeatedly that setup is critical at this stage, so your advice rings true with my research. From what I have seen on here, the Mandolin Store is very good at initial setup.

[jdawson]

RDawsoniii,

I have considered the Loar LM-600 VS too. Not sure how it compares to the Kentucky KM-630, but it is very close in price at about $50.00 more than the KM-630.

[Rdawsoniii]

I'm sure there are others who can give you specifics on the differences between the two. You could always try calling Robert at Folk Musician, who is very helpful.

Both Kentucky and Loar mandolins get good reviews in this forum. You won't really go wrong with either one.

You should also consider the Eastman 315.

As for A and F styles.....you can get more mandolin for your money with an A style, as the F's cost more due to the scroll. But...if an F is what you want...then that is what you should get!

[Lou Giordano]

I will let you in on a secret. Your going to buy something else in 6 months or less anyway. My friend and I started about 8-10 months ago. He is on # 4 keeping two maybe. I'm on #3 and keeping 2 maybe. There is no perfect choice just a responsible one. Your taste are going to change, as well as your left hand. So something that feels good now, might not in 6 months.

Oh yeah, a responsible choice in my opinion is, buy something popular so it will be easier to sell later on also, consider used so you don't take as big as a hit on resale. Heck the classifieds are really jumping lately.

[LastMohican]

I started on a Washburn A Oval (M1SDL). Traded my Fender flat top for a used one. They are about $250 new and this one would have cost about $150.

I've played a lot of the other "entry level" stuff and I thought this Mando was superior to most in just about every way-playability, build quality and tone.

I'm letting a buddy of mine use it now to learn on and I'll use it for outdoor/camping type stuff.

Moved "upstream" about a month ago to a Breedlove American FF.

[jdawson]

Wow, this forum is very helpful and I am grateful for all the sincere responses. I ordered a Loar 600 VS from The Mandolin Store. After considering price, reviews, and specifications, it just seemed like a smart choice for me. I will probably upgrade soon if this turns out to be as much fun as it looks to be (provided I have the ability to learn to play it. I have the determination and desire). Any advice or tips on learning to play correctly? I don't think there are any mandolin instructors in my area although I did find one place that offers mandolin lessons, but they offer lessons for all string instruments, so probably pretty generic. Might be a good place to start though. I will be participating in this forum as I go.

Thanks for the advice.

[Pete Summers]

Sounds like a good choice. You can learn if you really want to -- determination and desire, as you mentioned, are really the keys.

Just remember, if you've never played a stringed instrument before, your fingertips are going to need a while to build callouses, especially with a mandolin. So keep at it. And as others have pointed out, mandolins can be addictive, so be prepared for the inevitable desire to own more. ;)

[jdawson]

I am already addicted. I can't imagine how bad it will get from here. I have a feeling you are correct...this one will probably be just the first of many.

[Nonprophet]

Step One: We admitted we were powerless over mandolins and our desire to buy them had become unmanageable.
Step Two: Came to believe that there was no power greater than our desire to buy mandolins.....

Welcome to the club! Lots of very helpful people here. Also, I'd suggest searching around on Youtube for "mandolin tutorials" or "mandolin lessons" there's a TON of great stuff and it will help you decide what you want to focus on.

Good luck!


NP

[Fstpicker]

Step One: We admitted we were powerless over mandolins and our desire to buy them had become unmanageable.
Step Two: Came to believe that there was no power greater than our desire to buy mandolins.....





NP

Except for our spouses, who seem to have a lot of power over what we buy or don't buy! :)

Congratulations on the LM-600. I don't see how you will be disappointed. And you may not feel the need to upgrade for a long while.

Jeff

[dcoventry]

God, grant me the serenity to accept I can't buy all the mandolins,
Courage to buy the ones I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

[Lou Giordano]

Congratulations on the LM-600. It is a great choice. I just passed mine along to my son last night.

[Brent Hutto]

A properly adjusted LM600 will play and sound most excellent. It is entirely possible one will suit you for a long time and you won't need to "upgrade". They also are a known quantity to turn around and sell in six months, although by buying new you will no doubt lose a bit of money if you resell. Still, it's hard for a beginner to go wrong buying a well set up new instruments for minimum hassle and uncertainty. Good on you.

[jdawson]

From what I am hearing, it sounds like I will be happy with the LM 600. I have already been watching lesson videos on youtube. Especially for the song Whiskey Before Breakfast, which sounds awesome on mandolin to me. Funny it was mentioned about spousal limits on buying mandolins. I had to run the question gauntlet about my purchase last night! It went well.

[Rdawsoniii]

My wife doesn't know I bought a mandolin yet. She is leaving on a trip to Ireland today and my mandolin is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. But....it is MY money ("mad" money that I've been saving), so she can't squawk.

If she does, I'll just point to the 5 sewing machines, mountain of fabric and dozens of quilt books she has (and she puts out about 1 quilt every 3 years).

[jdawson]

With my wife it is things for cooking and the kitchen in general. She is a very good cook, so I benefit from her overzealous spending and don't complain. Plus her brother is a professional musician and has a fortune in guitars. Gives me some leeway!

Good luck with your wife's return from Ireland. Maybe play her a nice Irish song on your new mandolin when she gets home.

[jdawson]

Well, my mandolin arrived and I think I got it tuned pretty well (using a Korg AW-2G clip-on). Getting the A strings tuned wasn't easy. It seemed like there was too much slack in them by the time I got them to read "A" on the tuner and that they might move out of tune very easily. I have my first lesson Thursday evening after work. It is pay by the month with 4 one hour lessons per month @ 30.00 per lesson. Any recommendations from someone who has taken lessons on how many months I should take them?

[Folkmusician.com]

The A strings should feel like they are under similar tension (a bit less) compared to the other strings. A strings would be around 19lbs of tension where the E and D strings will be near 23lbs. You can play the D strings fretted at the 7th fret and that will be "A". Use that as a reference to see if your A strings are close.

[jdawson]

Thanks for the information Robert. I'm guessing my instructor will have me tune it again the first night and can verify things are as they should be.

John

[yoods]

.....They also are a known quantity to turn around and sell in six months, although by buying new you will no doubt lose a bit of money if you resell. Still, it's hard for a beginner to go wrong buying a well set up new instruments for minimum hassle and uncertainty. Good on you.

Agreed- however I consider the difference in what you pay for a new one and what you get when you sell it later as "rent" for while I played it!

[Capt. E]

If you really like the Kentucky 1000 but don't want to spend the money, consider the Kentucky KM 900 instead. Sure, it is an A style, not an F, but it is esentially the same mandolin and will sound and play just as well. You can get them for $899 new. http://www.fiddlersgreenmusicshop.com/mandolins/kentucky.html

[jdawson]

My LM 600 doesn't hold a tuning for very long. How often should I expect to have to tune it? As I am a complete beginner and am just trying to train my fingers to fret the strings with basic chords, maybe I am causing the need for daily tunings or maybe because it is a new instrument? I check it with the clip on tuner daily and it always needs a little adjustment to get it tuned again. If this is normal, then I apologize for not knowing.

John

[Folkmusician.com]

Someone with a sensitive ear can find themselves tuning every 10 minutes or so. Once a day is perfectly normal, especially if the temperature or humidity fluctuates. Brand new strings or an instrument that was previously detuned will take a while to stabilize, but even after this you would expect some minor tuning every time you play it. There is some technique involved in installing the strings and tuning though. Like always tune UP to pitch. :)

[Rodney Riley]

Since you have a new mando, just getting stabilized in your home could take awhile. What's funny is my Godin seems to always have to be detuned, (is sharp when I take it out of the case). It's just the nature of the wood to move when the relative humidity changes from day to day.

[jdawson]

Turns out my tuner was not accurate (or not set right). I had my first lesson last night and the instructor could tell immediately that my E strings were not tuned properly. He tuned them with his tuner (pocket tuner) and I could tell when he got it right. We put my tuner back on and it showed "D". To get it to show "E" we had to get it way out of tune.

I think I did OK for a first lesson, but I can tell this is going to be a slow learning process for me. My biggest problem at the moment is fingertip pain and the down force needed to fret the strings. The pain keeps me from pressing down hard enough. I'm sure that will pass, but I am supposed to practice an hour a day and that will be difficult right now due to the fingertip issue. I'm not getting discouraged, but I don't like the thought of not progressing like the instructor wants because of fingertip pain. I'll just have to tell him that I have to get over this phase and to be patient with me.

[Capt. E]

We all feel your pain...

Instead of practicing one full continuous hour each day, just do 1/2 our or so for each practice session. You will build up your calloses over time and the pain will go away. If you have medium weight strings on you could change them to lights or extra lights. That would help with the finger pain.
Get used to positioning your hand and fingers comfortably with your fretting fingers pointing along the line of the fretboard and start to build your muscle memory. I am sure your teacher will help you there. Take your time and enjoy learning. Unless you are exceptionally talented, it may take a year to get up to an intermediate proficiency. Having a teacher will generally speed all that up.

The other thing is find a group to jam with. There is no substitute for playing with others who have gone through the same journey.

[jdawson]

Thanks for the advice. I can tell you that I am anything but talented at this point! This is much more difficult than I thought it would be. I did not realize that the mechanics of hand and finger movement would be so awkward. In a way, it makes me even more determined to get this. Not much reward in learning something easy.

[ibanezae]

You've had it for a few days, the strings should be broken in enough to hold tune for a while. Obviously you will tune everytime you pick up the instrument but it should stay in tune pretty well during your playing sessions. You may just need a better set of strings (i've bought several instruments in my life and always take off the factory strings first thing and change them to something I like, which right now is elixirs) Fortunately you're starting lessons so your instructor will be the best person to check out the Loar. In the meantime ask your local music store what strings they recommend, even if they are a gtuitar shop they are probably supplying mandolin strings to local musicians so they will know what's most popular.

[jdawson]

My instructor says they don't get many mandolin students and they teach mostly guitar. He is using the Mel Bay Complete Mandolin Method book to teach me. Anyone familiar with this book, and if so, is it a good place to start? As long as it does not teach me anything I will need to "unlearn" I think it will teach basic music theory fairly well.

[Wayne Bagley]

Planet Waves puts out a inexpensive hand exerciser that you may find helpful. It will help strengthen your fingers.

Your new at this - practise and more practise.

I live in a large city and I cannot find a single mandolin instructor. Therefore I have to teach myself.

[jdawson]

As I mentioned previously, my instructor is not really a mandolin instructor but he offers mandolin lessons. I am beginning to get concerned that he may be teaching me incorrectly. Everything I have read says to fret the 1st two frets with the 1st finger, 3rd and 4th frets with the 2nd finger, 5th and 6th frets with the 3rd finger, and 7th fret with the 4th finger (in the first position). He is having me learn pentatonic scales right now, and we have only covered the pentatonic C scale. This is what he is having me do over and over:

G string:
open, 1st finger at 2nd fret, 3rd or 4th finger at 5th fret

D string:
open, 1st finger at 2nd fret, 3rd or 4th finger at 5th fret

A string:
open, 1st finger at 3rd fret, 3rd finger at 5th fret

E string:
open, 1st finger at 3rd fret, 3rd finger at 5th fret

Is it a bad thing to play the 3rd fret with the 1st finger on the A and E strings? He had me learn basic E string notes previously and the G note was 2nd finger:3rd fret. So, he is having me play that same fret on the E string with two different fingers (1st finger in the C pentatonic scale).

The inconsistency is really blocking my progress. Should I just listen to him and not question it?

Sorry for rambling,

John

[abuteague]

John,
I would learn to put your first finger on the first two frets, second finger on the 3rd and 4th frets, 3rd finger on the 5th and 6th frets, and 4th finger on the 7th fret.
There is a connection between where you put your fingers and standard notation. This doesn't have to be a linkage you have to think about, but I think it makes a difference. It also happens to be the way I learned to read notation.

http://sites.williams.edu/tmurphy/articles/music-notation-is-tab-on-the-mandolin/

Trevor

[jdawson]

Trevor,
That's what I am going to do, that is to say practice 1st finger for 1st two frets, etc and stick with it. My instructor will notice I am not following his instructions....should be interesting. I will just explain why 1st finger on 3rd fret was causing me problems and let's move on...or not!

Thanks for the link...that is interesting.

John

[Kevin Stevens]

Trevor,

The link is really good! I don't think I ever saw it presented in such a logical way. I will be using that for sure!

Kevin

[ibanezae]

Trevor, love the breakdown on sight reading and it's so logical! I am definitely going o start to work on it! Thanks.

John, I'm just a beginner also with only 6 months on you so and have not had the benefit on an instructor so have relied on videos, books and this forum for instruction. Prevailing wisdom on the first position is as you stated 1st finger frets 1/2, 2nd finger frets 3/4, 3rd frets 5/6, pinky frets 7/8 and that's how I practice. I work some of Mike Marshall's exercises which deviate from that pattern but they are designed to build speed, dexterity and right hand technique, most of his other exercises emphasize the above mentioned fretting. I also have Butch Baldassarri's video which emphasizes the same.
Your instructor probably knows better than you and me but were I you I’d ask for his reasoning for deviating from the standard fingering. Then put that answer to the forum, there are several experts here who happy to share their wisdom give great guidance.

[jdawson]

I will ask him that question at my next lesson. Maybe deviating from assigning two frets per finger might be useful once I get comfortable, but right now it just muddies the water and it is already muddy enough! I know that he has a wealth of music experience and he seems quite capable on the mandolin. What he is asking me to do obviously works for him, but he has 40 years experience with stringed instruments and teaches guitar mostly. This area is really lacking in mandolin retailers, players, and instructors so a guitar teacher was my only choice. I feel fortunate that he is talented enough to offer mandolin lessons because he knows music theory very well and I think that is a plus. I think this will work out well if I explain why I want to stick to mandolin general rules, if that's the appropriate term for them.

[TheDGJ]

If you're just starting out and you can't find an instructor near you, you may want to try the Academy of Bluegrass. I haven't used it, but I've seen some of the sample videos. Anyways, I think it is like $30 a month, which is probably cheaper than your lessons. It won't be as good as a one on one, but it is taught by a true professional so you know you're getting solid tutelage.

http://www.academyofbluegrass.com/publicmandolin

Of course, you should find a solid instructor eventually.

[Capt. E]

You really should try and find an instructor who plays and teaches mandolin, not one that is basically a guitar teacher using a mandolin method book. We don't know your instructor and it is quite possible he can get the job done, but you already seem to be getting confused. There are all kinds of differences between guitar and mandolin starting with hand position and angle of the fingers (on mandolin your fingers point down towards the bridge like on a violin). The online resources such as academy of bluegrass would be great to look into. The right instructor can speed your learning up tremendously and keep you from acquiring bad habits. I fear your current instructor is creating problems for you.

[markbaptiste]

I just bought an epiphone mm30e as my first mandolin. The action was very high from the local music store, but I had it set up by a local luthier and now it plays very nicely. Only had it a few days, but I like it a lot. I did need to purchase a used Seymour duncan sfx01 pickup boost pedal so I can play it through a PA. The piezo pickup does not have much volume unboosted, but the straight acoustic tone sounds great to me. Have fun.

[jdawson]

I think I am going to finish the lessons I have paid for and then try to find a teacher that specializes in mandolin or try something online. I have already paid for 5 more weekly lessons. I think the lessons will be useful for general music theory and notation if not so much for mandolin. Right now he is having me practice reading notation while playing along at 56, 76, and 96 beats per minute, but I am unable to keep up as of yet. I have not yet trained my fingers and brain to know where to fret each note without having to look. As soon as I have to look, I lose the beat and my place on the page. I think it will be a while before I reach that point. Hopefully, the lesons will be useful even though I am unable to keep pace with the curriculum.

John

[jdawson]

Well, I may not go back for the 4 lessons I have paid for at this point. The instructor noticed me using the third finger for the 5th fret and he insisted that was not working for me and that I stop and begin using my 4th finger for the 5th fret. That doesn't work for me either at this point. I think I just need more time to train my fingers and maybe should stick with the 3rd finger for the 5th fret. He also insisted that I point my left palm straight up with my fingers perpendicular to the fretboard. When I asked him why, he explained that this is a natural position for the hand and that I would have a hard time with the G and D strings with my fingers at an angle downward. Is there a right and wrong way in this regard or is it simply preference? It seems most reources indicate angled fingers and two frets per finger. I mentioned that and he suggested to listen to him and stop using multiple sources for training. I can't argue with that when the other sources say something different. I need to either learn his way or stop and take another route. Any advice appreciated.

[Kevin Stevens]

Whether your teacher is right or wrong (and I think wrong), it seems obvious that you have lost faith in the teacher and need to move on, IMO. There is so much basic instruction available online, and I would take advantage. However I would still seek out another teacher who is more experienced with mandolin. A combination of self instruction and a qualified teacher you trust and believe in will give you the best results. Going to the remaining lessons seems like a waste of time for both. A good teacher would give you a refund and let you move on.

[ibanezae]

Wish I had the experience to provide advice. I have learned so much from DVD and YouTube that i believe (sans a teacher) that is an excellent place to start.
Please keep us informed of your progress, this thread will be so usefull to others in your same situation. You may want to join and interact with the "Newbies" social group on the cafe. A lot of encouragement and experience is exchanged there.

[jdawson]

Thank you all for the input. I have reached the same conclusion as Kevin. I have lost confidence in my instructor being able to teach me to play (the way I would like to learn). That alone means I have to stop going and do something different. He is a gifted musician, but it is hard to see so many great mandolin players all giving the same advice and then having my instructor tell me to forget all that and learn something different. It limits my learning resources to one source only. By the way, I joined the Newbies group today.

[Ed Goist]

...snip...I have lost confidence in my instructor being able to teach me to play (the way I would like to learn). That alone means I have to stop going and do something different. ...snip...

I agree completely.
There is a very strong argument that the student's confidence in the instructor is the most essential component for successful musical instruction.
When that isn't present, it's time to move on.

[scootergirl62]

I'm sorry to hear that you haven't had a great experience with your instructor. I start my own lessons next week and will definitely keep in mind all the good advice you've gotten here. Although I lack experience with the Mandolin, I have taken music lessons and whole-heartedly agree that you need to have an instructor you have confidence in - it will only undermine everything you're trying to accomplish, plus it adds a negative element to learning. After all - you are actually or have actually PAID this person for their experience and they owe you a service. Not delivering on that is a lack on their part, frankly I hope the instructor has enough class to refund your lesson money for what you haven't taken. I wish you good luck finding a new instructor and in the meanwhile - there are so many resources here for you to use. Maybe you can arrange for Skype Lessons - I've seen that mentioned here a few times?

[scootergirl62]

BTW this is the link to that thread that mentions both Mike Marshall's online lessons and a gentlemen that gives Skype lessons:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?74786-Online-Lessons-recommendations&highlight=skype+lessons

[Capt. E]

Your teacher is obviously influenced by his guitar based background where each finger is mostly assigned to one fret. I think he needs to read the Mel Bay book where I am sure they talk about index finger frets one and two, middle finger three and four, etc. Every Mel Bay beginning mandolin book I have ever seen for mandolin does that.

[Ed Goist]

Greg Horne's great Beginning Mandolin covers the finger/fret assignment topic quite well.
See page 21 here (http://books.google.com/books?id=FTloLQQXw0sC&pg=PA8&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false).
(Also, be sure to check out the entire Google Book sample of this title...Lots of good stuff there.)

[jdawson]

The great part is that all the input I am receiving on this forum is encouraging and is what I need to make a confident decision. Thank you all.

Interestingly, the main book the instructor is using is Mel Bay's Complete Mandolin Method. In it, there are illustrations of using the pinky on the 5th fret. Under those, the text says "4th finger, 5th fret (3rd finger may be used)".

After reading the advice on this forum last night, I practiced for three hours the way I believe I should be learning. It was fun and I didn't want to put my mandolin down but had to quit to get some sleep. I realized that is how practice should be. I need to slow down and focus more on clean playing than trying to play along at speed to notation as the paid lessons are having me do. I will be ready for that at some point, but right now it is just discouraging and not constructive for me. Now I have to call the instructor and explain why I am not coming back. This should be fun!

[scootergirl62]

Good to hear you enjoyed your practice so much - that is how it should be. Good luck with your phone call, I hope it works out for you!

[jdawson]

Thanks Scootergirl62. I just made the call. They were polite but said there wouldn't be any refund at all. To be fair, their contract states no refunds, but I was hoping for at least a partial refund on the 4 lessons I have paid for but not taken yet. Oh well, time to forget it and get on with learning to play mandolin and have fun doing it. Time to check out online instruction.

JD

[scootergirl62]

Well JD, you did what you needed to do. Most contracts are like that. I was kinda hoping it would go in the interest of keeping a customer happy. Best to just move on a forget it, as you said. Put that energy into learning and most importantly enjoying! I had a totally frustrating experience today with a music store - came home, wrote up a review on their really obnoxious behavior, pulled out the mando and plucked for a while. Still don't know what I'm doing, but I felt better for at least trying!

[jdawson]

Thanks Chris,

I feel like I had been stuck and now am free to move forward again. Please post your experiences with your lessons as you progress. I think I will try a self-teach book/CD combo and then decide whether or not to try online lessons.

JD

[Ed Goist]

JD; I've been playing for a little over a year and I've found the Greg Horne book I referenced above very helpful.

One of the things I like most about it is that it is not sequential. One can (and is even encouraged) to jump around from chapter to chapter within the book.

I have the book + DVD edition, and really like it. Every few weeks I revisit it and come away with added insight. (NFI)

[JeffD]

Get thee to a jam session.

Yes, as a rank beginner. Even if you just figured out how to tune it and where the fingers go.

If all you do is listen, and see and hear where the mandolin goes, its of great benefit.

And then go regularly. At first you may not play regularly, but push yourself and accept their encouragement and soon enough you will participate regularly.

Nothing better for you. Vitamin C, and playing regularly with other people.

Don't wait till you feel ready, you ain't never gonna. Your first day at the jam will be the day you go despite not feeling ready.

[catmandu2]

I need to slow down and focus more on clean playing than trying to play along at speed to notation as the paid lessons are having me do. I will be ready for that at some point, but right now it is just discouraging and not constructive for me. Now I have to call the instructor and explain why I am not coming back. This should be fun!

Sounds like you have already surpassed the knowledge expertise of your former "instructor." Do not play faster than you can play cleanly. As you are aware, speed will come with time.

Good for you! Keep up the good work. They did in fact teach you a most valuable lesson--how to begin to discriminate between those with teaching competence, and those without. Unfortunately, probably not all of their pupils are as astute as yourself -- to learn that even before the "4th lesson." There are some academies very much worthy of an accelerated tuition and early matriculation!

[jdawson]

I will check out the Greg Horne book/DVD. Finding a jam session around here might be a daunting task but it certainly sounds like a very good idea. You can't even find a mandolin around here. However, I will be going to Kentucky in November and have been invited to attend jam sessions at a friend's place up there. I definitely will be attending. Has anyone tried the Academy of Bluegrass mandolin lessons? It sounds like a good idea, but I am hesitant because you can't just sign up for a month to try it out. You have a choice of 3,6, or 12 month payment plans with the price per month decreasing with each longer duration plan.

[scootergirl62]

I will keep you posted - I'm really looking forward to it and I hope it puts me in the right direction for learning. If I hadn't found a local teacher, I think I would have signed up for those online lessons - I remember reading good things about them - I think Mike Marshall does them? Also, there may be some sample lessons up there, unless I'm confusing it with something else.

[jdawson]

Yes, those are the ones that Mike Marshall teaches and he has some sample lessons on the website. A fellow cafe member told me about it on the previous page of this thread. I absolutely think your lessons will put you in the right direction for learning. Hey, even my lesson experience put me in the right direction. At least I think it did. I progressed very rapidly until he and I wanted to go in 2 different directions, so I think you can expect to make good progress.

[McBenet]

My wife doesn't know I bought a mandolin yet. She is leaving on a trip to Ireland today and my mandolin is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow. But....it is MY money ("mad" money that I've been saving), so she can't squawk.

If she does, I'll just point to the 5 sewing machines, mountain of fabric and dozens of quilt books she has (and she puts out about 1 quilt every 3 years).


Except for our spouses, who seem to have a lot of power over what we buy or don't buy! :)

Congratulations on the LM-600. I don't see how you will be disappointed. And you may not feel the need to upgrade for a long while.

Jeff


From what I am hearing, it sounds like I will be happy with the LM 600. I have already been watching lesson videos on youtube. Especially for the song Whiskey Before Breakfast, which sounds awesome on mandolin to me. Funny it was mentioned about spousal limits on buying mandolins. I had to run the question gauntlet about my purchase last night! It went well.

Funny thing, I've been married twice and divorced twice. Now I have 2 mandolins, a guitar, around a dozen fiddles and I am much happier. Go figure. Pfffffft.

Barry

[jdawson]

Well, I ordered Greg Horne's Beginning Mandolin book and DVD and it should arrive in two days. I am having a lot of fun now and enjoying learning the basics. I can't imagine how much fun this will be when I actually can play something that sounds like music. I may never get to this point, but these guys/gals sure look like they are having fun and it sounds great:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWlFLgq7IOM&feature=related

Barry, never let anyone take your mandolins!

[scootergirl62]

Went to my first lesson this morning and I'm so please with my instructor - she has a wonderful way about her and even after one lesson, I can tell she's a outstanding instructor. I'm happy and looking forward to more!

[jdawson]

That is very good news. I still feel an instructor will help you progress much faster than on your own. I am glad to hear that you have found a good one.

[andre66]

Went to my first lesson this morning and I'm so please with my instructor - she has a wonderful way about her and even after one lesson, I can tell she's a outstanding instructor. I'm happy and looking forward to more!

Good luck with your new instructor, I hope to find an instructor like yours seems to be. I'm in the same boat as jdawson, my first instructor is really a guitar teacher and while he is a great guitar teacher and player i am looking for someone who is more knowledgeable in mandolin as their primary instrument.

[scootergirl62]

Thank you. I think a instructor is a hard thing to find. I was a little nervous because she primarily teaches Bass, and she was very forthcoming with that information, btw. She had her custom made mandolin with her and after watching her play it - I have no doubt about how knowledgeable she is. I do have to be careful with the practice though - LOL - she showed me the proper way to play an "F" Chord and since it used three fingers instead of the two in my book, I darn well nearly crippled my hand trying to get all the notes to sound. It's funny, when you hands are not used to doing something, how hard it is to make the DO IT. If the index finger is in the right spot, one of the others isn't and so on.

[jdawson]

I know what you mean. Trying to get my fingers to obey what my brain wants them to do gets pretty funny sometimes. They are like little brat kids that refuse to do what they are told. Even when I take my right hand and force a left hand finger to its proper spot, it snaps back to where it wants to be as soon as I let go of it. But, all of that is slowly getting better. Everyone on this forum has told me this takes a LOT of repetition to train the left hand...so true. Sounds like you have a very good learning plan now.

[scootergirl62]

John - it's funny you should say that - I take my right hand to place them too and they just don't want to stay! Glad to hear it's getting better - that's encouraging.

[Pete Summers]

JD ... with regard to finger placement on the mandolin -- as others have pointed out, it is good to remember that the mandolin has more in common with the violin than the guitar (despite the way your former instructor was teaching you).

Since fiddles don't have frets, fiddlers learn to always plant their third finger at what would be the fifth fret on mandolin because that is the position where they can bow the octave note on the adjacent lower string. This is the way fiddle players test to see if their violin is in tune (by playing those octaves), and it is what allows them to bow all those open drones, which are so characteristic of fiddling.

In other words, noting the E string at the fifth fret (an A note) will allow an octave when played with the open A string -- or, again, noting the A string at the fifth fret (a D note) produces an octave with the open D string. Or, playing the fifth fret on the D string (a G note) produces an octave with the open G string.

So, my point being, think of always planting your third finger on the 5th fret before you begin to play as a point of reference. Then, with the fingers pointed in correct mandolin/violin position (toward the bridge) your fingers will naturally fall in such a way as to give access to all the notes in the first position.

3rd finger 5th fret, IMO, is the fundamental principle of hand position and always a point of reference (tho sometimes that finger slides up or down, of course, depending on the music).

:mandosmiley:

[jdawson]

Funny you should mention that. I noticed last night that placing my 3rd finger comfortably on the 5th fret of the D string seemed to make all the frets on all strings easier to get to in 1st position...except for the 1st fret. I guess with that one, it will just be a matter of really curling in that 1st finger.

[Mo Soar]

Hi all - looking for very inexpensive starter mandolin for a music novice (I dunno, "novice" probably implies more skill than I presently have). The spouse is an accomplished pickup-maker, guitarist and is well-versed in repairing and tuning guitars and basses, so I'm looking through ebay ads for something that might need a little work - I like the idea of bringing back something. There are a couple A style Kay mandolins in need of various bits of restoration, in the sub-$50 range, and I can probably get a good restoration candidate and a parts donor. Any comments on Kay?

[Pete Summers]

Funny you should mention that. I noticed last night that placing my 3rd finger comfortably on the 5th fret of the D string seemed to make all the frets on all strings easier to get to in 1st position...except for the 1st fret. I guess with that one, it will just be a matter of really curling in that 1st finger.

Yeah, that first fret requires a slight shift of the hand backward. I have to curl my index pretty tightly on that fret also. For a while it can lead to a sore finger joint if you over do it.

I sometimes practice a little repeating pattern like this:

5th fret (A string) - Open E string - 1st fret (E string)
5th fret (A string) - Open E string - 1st fret (E string)
over and over

Doing that pattern helped me get used to using the 1st fret. It's also a kind of re-occurring phrase (using different notes) in a lot of music, especially ragtime -- a repeated 3 note figure in the melody played over a steady 4 beat bass. If kept up, it leads to a very syncopated effect.
:mandosmiley:

[Pete Summers]

Hi all - looking for very inexpensive starter mandolin for a music novice (I dunno, "novice" probably implies more skill than I presently have). The spouse is an accomplished pickup-maker, guitarist and is well-versed in repairing and tuning guitars and basses, so I'm looking through ebay ads for something that might need a little work - I like the idea of bringing back something. There are a couple A style Kay mandolins in need of various bits of restoration, in the sub-$50 range, and I can probably get a good restoration candidate and a parts donor. Any comments on Kay?

No comments on the Kay for musical purposes, but for a starter instrument in the $50 range, the new Rogue mandolins on Ebay are pretty decent, IMO. Better than they have any right to be. And they certainly will give your wife plenty of work setting them up.

For something better --- for about a $150 from Folkmusician or the Mandolin store you can get an all solid wood Rover RM 50, an very good starter instrument, and one that you can grow into.

However, I get the appeal of restoring one of those old Kays, if you can get it cheap and have the luthier skills. They were interesting looking mandolins, though I have no idea how they sounded. Maybe somebody on this site who owns one will chime in.

[Mo Soar]

Thanks, Pete - I do like the idea of restoring an older one, although I am aware that there will be set-up issues, since I haven't played one before and neither has my husband (clearing up the gender thing there). But I know there are a couple mandolin players in the area - and probably many more I don't know yet - so I can get some help and advice there. If I can learn to play I am sure they will be an upgrade in my future, but I like the idea of starting with something I rebuilt.

[Rodney Riley]

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?75375-other-body-styles&p=949293 Look at thi mando that Tavy is making. If that doesn't make ya want a Kay nothin will. Just love this body style (and a '55 Chevy, '69 Roadrunner, '70 Super Bee or '63 Impala body styles :) ) And I also applaud anyone that restores instruments/cars and lovingly gives them a new lease on life.

[Mo Soar]

Just FYI, Steve looked at me and said "Why a mandolin?" And, well, the answer is: I've always liked them, and this video made me finally decide to do something about the liking part:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rmx_YL9Vec

[scootergirl62]

From what I understand, they need to be tuned daily or even more depending how much your playing - that's my my instructor told me. I tuned mine when I first start to practice each day. I don't know if this is right, but I get the feeling that what your experiencing is perfectly normal.

[Mo Soar]

So, as an update: got my two Kay mandolins off ebay. Although I paid in the $50 range for each of them (one incl shipping the other plus shipping). The two couldn't be more different.

The red sunburst A mandolin with the faded gold "Kay" script on the headstock has a rosewood fretboard (with the double dots on the 10th fret and a single dot on the 12th - is that common?), an interior tone bar and what looks like cross bracing in the body cavity under the bridge. The edges of the body and fretboard are bound ("mother of toilet seat"? plastic? Who knows). The tuners have been replaced. The seller said it was from the 40s - I have no reason to doubt that, although there is no real evidence for it, either. My spouse adjusted the action, cut a new top piece (out of bubinga) for the sagging bridge and it plays nicely. It has dings, chips and pick wear, but it's all really cosmetic only. The neck is tight.

The other mandolin, sort of a dusty tobacco sunburst, is not so nice, in condition or initial construction. It has a simple metal Kay logo tacked on by two brads. Solid mahogany (probably, by the grain) neck with a painted-on fretboard, painted on "bindings". Three single dots on the fretboard. The neck is a bit loose, and I'm wondering if it's even worth it to saw the back/top off and fix the neck - it'd be a good exercise in lutherie but I don't think the initial design or construction materials really warrant it.

I gambled on ebay because I live in a pretty remote area - but it wasn't such a bad gamble, for $100 I ended up with a nice beginner player and bit of, ummm, wall art, I think.