Pricing for session tune class

[Steve L]

I'm hoping some of you folks can help me. I've been approached by a local music school to give a trad Irish beginners repertoire class which would hopefully turn into a slow session. The class would run weekly for 90 minutes. I'd be teaching the tunes in "sets" of 2 and 3, covering the range of tune types from reels, polkas, slides, airs,etc. Little by little, we'd play the tunes we've learned together in the class and until we reach a reasonable critical mass, I could explain a bit about scales and modes, dealing with the various time signatures, and developing good time by working with a metronome for practicing, some ear training basics, and hints about learning to play with others.

What do you think is a reasonable price to pay for something like this?

[Bruce Evans]

I've been considering the same type of thing. I believe what it really comes down to is how much the participants are willing, or perhaps more important, capable of paying. If you only consider your expertise, $100 might not be too much. If the participants are mostly college people (as mine would most likely be) $20 might be all they can afford. I'm thinking of offering a 3 hour workshop on IT backup for $20.

[brunello97]

Steve, this sounds like a great idea, and probably something I would sign up for should it be available around here. (The commute to MA is unwieldy.....) Do you anticipate folks signing up for the whole series or on a week-by-week basis? Seems like the kind of thing the city/county/community arts programs organize around here for dance, some music, arts etc. (But better.) We've paid at least $120-150 iirc for 6-8 week dance programs on numerous occasions and felt it was affordable and a value. Usually an hour class on record but would typically run long. Week-by-week $$/commitment seems a recipe for folks drifting in and out and make it hard to build a solid core.

How many folks would you optimally see in the class? With my schedule, locking in to a regular series (and paying upfront) is preferable so that I stick with a commitment. Too easy for me to get overwhelmed with work and drift off plan. Would it make sense to you to keep the weekly price lower and 'make it up in bulk' with the size of the group?

Would there be beer?

Sorry this isn't more specific help in terms of your original question (but $$ costs do seem to vary around the country). I just think this sounds like a great idea and want to offer at least my moral support.

Mick

[draino]

As a reference point, I paid $50 for a 3 hour workshop with Matt Flinner at Music Emporium a little over a year ago. It was an organized three hours, with him handing out tabs etc., not simply a "so, what do you want me to talk about?" thing. There were fewer than 10 people in attendance -- I think 7, if I recall correctly.

[Brent Hutto]

If I'm not mistaken, the studio in town that offers similar instruction+session type group events gets ten bucks a person for a couple hour long deal. That may only apply to people who are already students in one of their more formal instrucational curricula. That's probably a safe amount, some people would willingly pay more but I'd guess as you get much above that level you start losing prospective participants.

[Steve L]

Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Please keep 'em coming.

[KristinEliza]

When I price lessons, here's what I think about...

What is my time and experience worth? In other words, would you pay the same for lessons with a teacher who is a high school student vs. a college student vs. an experienced teacher/musician?

1-on-1 vs. group setting - when I teach a group lesson, I always charge less per-person, as I am unable to give everyone personal attention, so I feel I shouldn't be charging for that.

materials - is there expense? Will you be giving these out for free? You could charge x amount for the lesson and add a materials fee.

Workshop style - any time I've taken group lessons (art classes...not music), it's been a flat rate for 10 weeks (plus materials)...I think I paid about $150 (but that was 10 years ago). And if I missed a class, I didn't get a refund.

I'm thinking this (workshop style) is probably the way to go if the music store can set it up that way. You will have more consistency in your lessons and attendance that way.

Wish I was near you, because it sounds like fun!

[Peter Kurtze]

I recently paid $35 for a 90-minute workshop on DADGAD guitar with Sarah McQuaid . . . worth every penny! About 15 people in the group.

[Randi Gormley]

I'm curious if the music school itself has a fee schedule you'd be expected to conform to. A couple of people I know have taught courses through the local adult school (in my town, they're through the town parks and rec department and the courses range from cooking and yoga to belly dancing and beginning guitar) and they're contracted through the school. Fees vary, but I think they're within a specific range, the classes are set up on the town's schedule and there probably is some kind of reciprocity between teacher and parks and rec (or adult school). Would you be part of a larger semester offering or a one-off? Are you an independent contractor or a member of the school's adjunct staff? Do they pay you? Do you pay them? If you don't get a certain number of students, do they cancel the class? just my thoughts knowing nothing about the situation ...

[Jill McAuley]

I've heard of "tune learning sessions" held at pubs (in the States) that charge $10 per person to attend. For something in a classroom setting, there's a music school here in the bay area that does an "ensemble" class where they group folks together depending on skill levels/preferred style of music, meet once a week for 8 weeks, learn tunes and at the end of it perform at a local pub venue - they charge $200 per student for that.

Cheers,
Jill

[foldedpath]

If I were doing this, and assuming enough demand is there, I think I'd go for the extended class workshop model. My S.O. did one of those recently; a several-months long program of group fiddle instruction where they met once a week. Towards the end, the players capped it off with a performance at a local barn dance (along with other acts playing). The workshop then repeats (I forget if it's quarterly or three times a year), with the repertoire and skill level determined by who hangs in for a continuing program, vs. newcomers. The workshop was taught out of the instructor's home.

There are several advantages to that method, I think:


You get your fee up front, without the hassle of collecting money at each class.
If you don't get enough sign-ups to make it worthwhile, you can abort, refund any existing payments, and try again in a few months.
You have a set of student email addresses that remains stable over the course of each extended workshop, so it's easy to send reminders or make schedule changes.
Finally, I think it helps motivate the students. Each class feels less like a one-shot deal, and they have an incentive to practice and get their money's worth out of the full workshop payment.


On the downside, if you commit to bringing early participants through a long series of workshops, it can be more difficult to balance skill levels. Long-term students who don't progress, can drag down others who are moving faster, or starting at a higher level. If each class is a one-shot deal, it's a little easier to aim for the average skill level in the group.

[Steve L]

I really appreciate all the thoughtful respones, everyone. It seems the school wants to charge in 8 week terms. I don't know if beginners can really absorb more than one tune in a class. I'd be curious to know what others think, bearing in mind of course it all depends on the actual people who come.

I'm hoping folks can do drop in sessions as well. My concern is cost. With something like this, I think more people involved is better and I'd rather draw $100 worth of business from 10 people than 4 to keep the energy level high. My reason for posting here is to get a sense of, if presented with the possibility of learning a tune a week in a slow,supportive class, how much would be a good deal and at what point would it be too much? I am not in the position of setting the price.

Again, thanks for all your interest and observations. I'll keep you posted if it looks to get off the ground and on the progress.

[Bren]

Steve, have a look at this link for SCaT (http://www.scottishculture.org/index/classes)
("Scottish Culture and Traditions") classes.
You can see that they charge £78 per person for 10 weekly classes. That's around US$127 at the moment, or $12.70 a class.
The format is much as foldedpath described in #11. Given the difference in costs of living between US and UK, it's roughly equivalent to $10.

So I think you're in the right ballpark. However, SCaT do get some external funding, so I don't know whether the class prices are a direct reflection of what the tutors are paid

[John Flynn]

The Folk School of St. Louis does this exact thing and I have taken one of the Irish classes. Each class meets in weekly 70-minute periods for eight weeks. Cost for each class is $145. They look for a minimum of 5 people for a "go/no-go" for a class. The Irish class is open to all session-acceptable instruments and they have a really good fiddler who teaches it. He goes over two of each major kind of tune in a class session: reels, jigs, hornpipes and polkas. FYI, they also offer open sessions two times a month at no charge (although they get some grant money from a foundation to do that) and they host "showcases" at a local pub a few times a year where each class gets up in turn and performs a few tunes. It's a great program.

[SincereCorgi]

don't know if beginners can really absorb more than one tune in a class.

I think I'd go crazy playing the same tune for a whole class.

There's a pretty good local 'jam' class that runs in eight-week increments. During every cycle, every student brings a song they want to learn, the instructor also includes a few judiciously chosen fiddle tunes. Every tune/song is played at every session, tempo gradually increasing as the weeks go on. Beers and wine are provided at the last class as a way of marking a happy conclusion. I think it runs something like $160 per cycle, which is slightly steep in my opinion, but these sessions have been going for years – they're popular enough that I think there's a separate classes three nights a week – so I think it must be well within most people's budgets. Class sizes ranged from 10-15 people per.

[Steve L]

Well, playing's one thing and learning's another. I saw a class run by one of the best flute players and teachers in Boston and it took people 2 hours to get a single reel by ear. It was an easy tune, but the people were really just beginning. It all depends on who turns up and this class is aimed at beginners. I would certainly be wise to have more than one prepared though.

[Randi Gormley]

Steve brings up a good point -- the ability of players. If they're mostly newbies, than they'll need to be handheld about ITM in itself. If they're mostly musicians familiar with the genre, the newbies will be left behind while the room advances quickly. Even a split means practically planning two lessons, one for the newbies, one for the knowledgeable. I'm not sure how you'd do that.
I ended up ditching a teacher at a week-long workshop because I was the only one in the room who had held a mandolin longer than about six weeks (eight or 10 years difference). And yes, I know I can always use practice in the basics, but it was very discouraging to me to have to sit through the teacher explaining that yes, the mandolin feels awfully small compared with the guitar, and being the only person who could play the tunes via music along with the teacher. I didn't see how I was helping the other students since they were willing to drop out because I was playing the fill ... just another thing to think about.