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Nov-05-2004, 9:45am
i was hoping there'd be an answer in this thread, i DO NOT KNOW.... however i have a kinda guess, it maybe like the insturment settleing and "annealing" releiving stress in its structure, and as played the wood gets vibrated wich may help settle and make the wood denser?? but in an ever so subltle way. i have a mandolin that definatle opened up while ive owned it, its pretty neat, sounds better now too...
does it ever make a mando sound worse?

GVD
Nov-05-2004, 10:18am
Provocative question for a first time poster if you ask me. You wouldn't be trolling now would you Billy boy? If you're really interested I suggest you search the archives as this subject has been discussed ad nauseam here before.

GVD

Tom C
Nov-05-2004, 10:25am
Here are some of the threads

Thread 1 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=17852;hl=opening)

Thread 2 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=16979;hl=opening)

Thread 3 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=12;t=15076;hl=opening)

Pete Martin
Nov-05-2004, 10:45am
In my experience, playing an instrument hard opens it up the quickest. Beat on that thing, boy!!!

rambler
Nov-05-2004, 12:54pm
I hear tell, a fireplace poker opens up a mando real good.

MANDOLINMYSTER
Nov-05-2004, 2:57pm
it has something to do with the cellular structure of the wood fibers, the more vibrations they are exposed to the more responsive to vibrations they become http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

Hubert Angaiak
Nov-05-2004, 4:47pm
I've heard of someone actually putting their mando infront of their stereo speaker, so the mando continues to viberate.

Adare_Steve
Nov-05-2004, 6:33pm
For me the question is not what causes it to 'open up' (answer: playing it) but:

1. What is 'opening up' (in definable and measurable terms) and
2. How do when know when it's happened? and
3. How do we know when it's stopped?

Can you tell that I used to be a researcher?

Steve

mandoman4807
Nov-05-2004, 8:15pm
You wouldn't be trolling now would you Billy boy?


What the HAY is wrong with that http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif


Darrell

John Flynn
Nov-05-2004, 8:27pm
Steve:

Questions like yours have been asked on this board and elsewhere multiple times. Unfortunately, there have not been any conclusive answers, answers that would satisfy a researcher. The answers I have heard are more in the line of "folklore" and "pet theories." Some that seem promising are things like "repeated exposure to vibration has some effect on the wood structure that allows it to vibrate more freely." I have seen some quasi-scientific stuff that indicates that opening up does indeed happen, but nothing on why it happens or what is actually taking place.

mad dawg
Nov-05-2004, 9:13pm
A few years back someone posted how he went out to WallMart and bought a good old fashioned "therapeutic" vibrator, and made up a rig that fastened it to the mandolin to help it open up. He seemed to swear by it in the thread, but I never could tell whether or not he was pulling our leg. (It would make an interesting experiment nevertheless, were I not too embarrassed to actually go out and buy one of these little devices.)

erick
Nov-05-2004, 11:00pm
I read the previous thread mentioned, and went out and got my mando a "Personal massager" for $14 from K-mart. I rigged up a little jig out of wood to hold it at the right height so it would rest right in the middle of the bridge, and let it rip! I'd just had a new top put on to a '73 Gibson F-5, and after about a week of vibrating the thing had changed a lot, and definitely for the better. It was so loud my wife banned it from the house, beware if you try this yourself!

mandroid
Nov-06-2004, 12:34am
tape your mando to the stereo speaker, put a cd of your hero on repeat mode, and return in 2 weeks and listen for the difference, (sAw picture[old frets mag} where someone that did this with his guitar, claimed it helped]
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

Chris Baird
Nov-06-2004, 1:27am
Opening up is when it sounds better today than yesterday and it happens because, just because. #I don't know and neither does anyone else. Although we all have our theories.

Adare_Steve
Nov-06-2004, 5:01am
Some that seem promising are things like "repeated exposure to vibration has some effect on the wood structure that allows it to vibrate more freely." I have seen some quasi-scientific stuff that indicates that opening up does indeed happen, but nothing on why it happens or what is actually taking place.
Johnny:
I think my own question was missed. I'm not so much concerned with why it happens (as I said, for me it's down to regular playing) as what happens.

Using words like 'opening' up is not helpful, as it might mean one thing to one person and something completely different to another. Obviously, some enhancement in sound quality is sought - but what, and how much? And, how long can we expect it to continue increasing?

I received a hand-made Octave Mandolin in June. It's solid and heavy wood, made by a well known luthier in Scotland. I didn't play it much for the first month or so, but now I'm practicing with it on average an hour a day. I genuinely don't know if it's 'opened up' much at all. I thought any sound enhancement was down to better strings I put on it. But I can't be sure.

So, I'm curious to know what to expect - if anything!

Steve

Chris Baird
Nov-06-2004, 10:33am
Most changes occur in the first month of an instruments life. Some mandolins continue to mature seemingly indefinatley and others seem to get worse. Carved top mandolins show the most change. Generally you will hear a mellowing out and a shift from the treble to the bass. The tone will sound more complex/warmer, a fuller tone. I've never, however, heared a big change in any mandolin after the initial first month. It is always a subtle mellowing out that occurs over the years.

lindensensei
Nov-07-2004, 5:56pm
Big Joe says about the same thing. #I had a J200 that I hated for years. #Wouldn't even play it unless i'd broken every string on every other guitar I owned. #I got hired to do a gig that required a big guitar so i practiced about 4 hours a day for a month on it and BAMM!!! It opened up and it has blown people away for years. #I've had many players tell me it is the singly finest guitar they have ever heard. #Only took 7 years to 'open up'.

angrymandolinist
Nov-07-2004, 8:21pm
If there's any validity to the speaker thing, I wonder if more pulsing vibrations- say, from a techno song- would be better than more sustained vibrations from things like cellos. Any guesses?

Bluegrass Boy
Nov-08-2004, 9:29am
I believe that instruments open up because, well everyone says so, and they can't all be wrong. Can they? And it makes sense that wood will dry out (I know my firewood burns better after a year) and parts will adjust to each other. I just never really heard it. My instruments sound different every day. As a matter of fact, they sound different from when I pick them up to half an hour latter. Who is opening up more, me or the instruments? I can't tell. What affects the sound of the instrument more, my mood or the instrument's? My favorite comment on a discussion forum was someone who said you should not buy an instrument on how it sounds, but on how it will sound a year or two out. Hmmm...

I do know that my 80 year old parlor guitar sound, well, old.

Flowerpot
Nov-08-2004, 11:26am
"I got hired to do a gig that required a big guitar so i practiced about 4 hours a day for a month on it and BAMM!!! It opened up and it has blown people away for years. I've had many players tell me it is the singly finest guitar they have ever heard. Only took 7 years to 'open up'. "

Sounds like it took a month to open up. It's not so much the age of the instrument, but the man-hours of playing time, as evidenced here.

As far as "what happens", normally I notice a deepening of the bass response and the elimination of certain harsh high frequency responses. You can also get more sustain and more apparent volume from the clarity of the note attack. Some times a new or dormant instrument will have a muted/muffled sound, like there's a sock stuffed inside, and after break-in will sound like the sock has been pulled out. In that case, it's almost like the top is refusing to vibrate and finally gets going. Different instruments react different ways, but in 99% of the cases, the change is in a good direction. I have heard of an instrument getting worse, but have never experienced that myself.

ira
Nov-08-2004, 11:42am
[QUOTE]tape your mando to the stereo speaker, put a cd of your hero on repeat mode, and return in 2 weeks and listen for the difference, (sAw picture[old frets mag} where someone that did this with his guitar, claimed it helped]

beside the opening up, maybe some talent from my hero will be magically transported into my mando.:laugh:

Paul Kotapish
Nov-08-2004, 12:06pm
Here's a link to a really interesting story on a serious instrument-aging machine:

http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/advice/vibration.shtml

Rick Turner is a very savvy luthier and has been at the forefront of both acoustic and electric technology innovations for years. The story is worth reading.

http://www.acousticguitar.com/Gear/advice/Images/Vibemachine.gif

It's probably impossible to fully understand all the variables that go into the opening up of an acoustic instruments. Construction techniques, raw materials, aging, and playing time are all essential aspects, but there doesn't seem to be any sure-fire path to successfully opening up a tight instrument or guaranteeing that a new instrument will mellow in a particular way. Some of it's just magic.

GVD
Nov-08-2004, 1:09pm
While you guys are doing all the speculating and theorizing did you notice that the topic originator's thread has been mysteriously deleted?

Watch them treble hooks they'll git ya every time. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

GVD

Blueglass
Nov-11-2004, 4:19pm
I have this weber gallatin and the other day I was picking with this fellow who had a real fancy Weber Big Sky.
Mine was louder and more full. He told me he hardly ever played it. Which I could tell by his ability. But the thing was stiff when I picked on it too. I play my Weber everyday usally a few times a day. That is the diffrence
a mandolins tine is directly related to how much it is played.
This is why I never understood MAS why not just play one mandolin and play the f... out of it.

fatt-dad
Nov-11-2004, 5:29pm
Notwithstanding all of the anicdotal evidence that opening up occurs, I remain curious. It would seem to me that the wood of an instrument experiences lots of vibrations during the course of manufacture, what with all the sawing and sanding. So, in my mind the customized oribital sander method (photo above) doesn't strike me.

With the completed instrument and the first notes, I can see the coming together of the string vibrations and the rest of the instrument. It even makes sense to me that there would be a certain resiliency that would develop from the range of string vibrations. What I wonder is what occurs when you take an "opened up" properly used and maintained mandoiln and put in proper storage for some time. If left unplayed, would the mandolin "close up" - maybe.

Last night I took a nice (not custom but nice) mandolin out and tuned it up for practice. I felt as if the tone was off, espicially in light of some of the other mandolins I've been playing. Well after some time of playing (maybe an hour), I ended up saying, "this is sounding much better". Yeah, I was hitting the notes better (sometimes practice helps), but I thought, you know it may have been "asleep".

Comments?

fatt-dad

Eric F.
Nov-11-2004, 5:34pm
Fatt-dad, I've heard many people discuss this phenonemon. I believe I can hear it myself in my own instruments. Either that or it's the bourbon kicking in. ...

abram
Nov-13-2004, 8:24pm
I think a whole lot has to do with figuring out how to get the sounds you want out of a particular instrument, that being said, I know that after working on playing as LOUD as possible on my Rigel, I think its deveopled a clearer tone that I can hear when other people lay it.