Chris Thile & Michael Daves Duo

[BradKlein]

Now that we're just a couple of weeks away from the CD release, I thought I'd start a fresh thread with this new Nonesuch Records produced video. There's also a free download of the studio version of this song, and guitar give-away, here. (http://www.nonesuch.com/journal/chris-thile-michael-daves-album-sleep-with-one-eye-open-available-pre-order-enter-win-martin-guitar-2011-03-28)

Anyway, hoping I could steer this one away from simply, "do you or don't you like/approve of Thile", and into other areas now that we can actually here one cut, and soon, more. For one thing, I'm struck at how totally UN-LIKE 'Skaggs & Rice' this disc is going to be, (based on what I've heard so far) on all levels. And somehow that surprised me, even after hearing them play these past 4 years, or so. In addition to completely different players, and (I'll wager) recording techniques, there's also the D-18 v D-28 divide that really changes the overall sound.

[re simmers]

Excellent DYNAMICS. Exciting music. Spectacular. Worth watching a couple thousand times. What else can I say?

Thanks for posting this.

Bob

[Murphy Slaw]

Chris is a busy guy, eh?

[Maddie Witler]

You can hear the studio cuts for "Sleep With One Eye Open" and "Rabbit In a Log" by skipping ahead on the music player in the upper right hand corner of their website here:

http://www.thiledaves.com/

Really great stuff...

[Larry S Sherman]

I'm anxiously awaiting my pre-order too. I can't wait.

I'm always excited to see Chris do something different, although I hope he still keeps the PB going strong, and maybe releases some classical stuff soon.

I suppose it would be nice to post the other videos here as well?

Sleep with One Eye Open



Chris Thile & Michael Daves: About the Album



Larry

[Larry S Sherman]

Maybe a couple of live ones:

Chris Thile and Michael Daves duet Rabbit In the Log

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Bury Me Beneath the Weeping Willow (cover) - Chris Thile and Michael Daves

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Larry

[Douglas McMullin]

I jumped on this pre-order as well. Great sounding music and I am looking forward to the release. I also see that they are scheduled to play in Portland Maine on May 25th. I will have to try to get to that even though it is three and a half hours from me.

[Theo W.]

I pre-ordered it as well, as well! I'm pretty excited for it. Chris' mandolin playing has always been a good inspiration for me.. I'm not the biggest fan of the tone Michael uses, but I'm sure I'll get used to it! And I'd like a free Martin guitar. Sounds.. Delicious.

[Alex Orr]

Now that we're just a couple of weeks away from the CD release, I thought I'd start a fresh thread with this new Nonesuch Records produced video.]
Cool. I'll start a fresh discussion in this thread about how this ain't no bluegrass and Thile is over-rated ;)

No, in all seriousness, I'm stoked for this record release. I was showing some of those clips to a guy I play guitar with and after the first one he was already onboard for the pre-order. I'm lookling forward to seeing them up here in Annapolis in May.

[Caleb]

Daves is scary good on the guitar. I guess I must be pretty late to the party because I'd never heard of the fellow till this collaboration. He sings like he's from another era. I'm impressed.

[Popeye39]

Got my preorder done early. I can't wait for this. Daves seems to have a unique tone to his voice. Thile is Thile so I know what I'm getting. Hope they tour around me, I'll go see it.

[fredfrank]

I think a DVD of this project would be well received. By me, anyway.

[Theo W.]

By the way! If you pre-order it from Nonesuch records, you get a free MP3 copy and autographs! Who doesn't love autographs?

[Dave Greenspoon]

Holy Tortoise Shell, look at them fellers pickin' the fast one, and just being so purty on the slow one. Wow. I'm looking forward to the Annapolis show.

[Larry S Sherman]

A new video is available...awesome stuff.

Chris Thile & Michael Daves perform "You're Running Wild" (made famous by The Louvin Brothers)



Larry

[JeffD]

A new video is available...awesome stuff.

Chris Thile & Michael Daves perform "You're Running Wild" (made famous by The Louvin Brothers)


What an amazing mandolin solo. Tasteful, down right yummy, to the point, respectful of Ira Louvin's original mandolin solo, not competing with it, or emulating it, its all Thile's, no excursions to experimental geographies, no pyrotechnics, but absolutely virtuoso nonetheless. Everything I like. The solo says "listen to this music", not "listen to me".

But its more than that. Sure it missed every opportunity to suck, but it also augmented and lifted the song. Just beautiful. Just right.

[mando.player]

It's gonna be a long 10 days waiting for that CD to come.

[Caleb]

The solo says "listen to this music", not "listen to me".

Nicely put, and I agree. Such a beautiful song.

[Mike Bunting]

What an amazing mandolin solo. Tasteful, down right yummy, to the point, respectful of Ira Louvin's original mandolin solo, not competing with it, or emulating it, its all Thile's, no excursions to experimental geographies, no pyrotechnics, but absolutely virtuoso nonetheless. Everything I like. The solo says "listen to this music", not "listen to me".

But its more than that. Sure it missed every opportunity to suck, but it also augmented and lifted the song. Just beautiful. Just right.
That was a great solo. I like the way Chris looks lovingly into Daves' eyes whilst singing.

[BradKlein]

That's a sweet video (You're Running Wild), and when you include Michael's story, it probably says as much about tradition and innovation, and how they coexist, as any thread on the Cafe.

[PJ Doland]

I have never looked forward to the release date of an album this much before.

[Ed Goist]

What an amazing mandolin solo. Tasteful, down right yummy, to the point, respectful of Ira Louvin's original mandolin solo, not competing with it, or emulating it, its all Thile's, no excursions to experimental geographies, no pyrotechnics, but absolutely virtuoso nonetheless. Everything I like. The solo says "listen to this music", not "listen to me".

But its more than that. Sure it missed every opportunity to suck, but it also augmented and lifted the song. Just beautiful. Just right.

+1. I agree with every word of this post.
The videos from this collection are just remarkable.
Really looking forward to this one coming out.

[Larry S Sherman]

I wish that the CD came with these videos on a DVD. Or maybe a collector's version for a bit more with a DVD?

These videos are excellent.

[michaelpthompson]

It is certainly fun to watch them as they play. Adds a lot to the music. Interesting the way they augmented that retro look by shooting the video in black and white.

[Caleb]

It is certainly fun to watch them as they play. Adds a lot to the music.This is one of the greatest things about these guys: they appear to be having a blast and really enjoying the music.

[JeffD]

That was a great solo. I like the way Chris looks lovingly into Daves' eyes whilst singing.

That is a Chris Thile thing. I have seen it with Chris and Mike Marshall, and others. Its a bit disconcerting, or I should say, it would be disconcerting for me if I were playing with a duet and my duet partner looked at me that way. Smiles, encouragement, shared enthusiasm, sure, but it does border on loving devotion.

[Michael Lewis]

The flavor of this project is heartening, and I'm VERY glad to hear it. I can see some IBMA and other awards for them if this keeps up, plus a lot of folks that have been put off by Chris and his general refusal to play "real bluegrass" will warm to him in a big way. This is an outstanding move and I wish them great success.

[Rob Fowler]

Just watched all these videos again.....only 7 more days I keep telling myself...only 7 more days. And now you can listen to hints of all the tracks on the Cafe mp3 page...AGHHH!! It will be ok, Rob...it will be ok.....

[JeffD]

I can't wait.

[Chip Booth]

I admit this is probably the least excited I have been about a CT project, but after listening to the samples on the MP3 page I am coming around quickly!

[swampy]

I admit this is probably the least excited I have been about a CT project, but after listening to the samples on the MP3 page I am coming around quickly!

Funny, this is the first time I've ever been even remotely interested in a CT project. I'm excited about this one.

[Steve Cantrell]

I felt the same way Nate. The rest have been "meh", but the videos definitely have me interested.

[Ken_P]

I admit this is probably the least excited I have been about a CT project, but after listening to the samples on the MP3 page I am coming around quickly!

I agree! I'm sure I'll enjoy this album quite a bit, but it will just tide me over for a while until he gets going on another album with Edgar Meyer, or even more exciting, finally recording Bach!

[Jim Ferguson]

Well.......if the MP3 sound bites are any indication this is a GREAT bluegrass album.......I thoroughly enjoyed the snippets. Count me in for a purchase.
Peace,
Jim

[Bing Cullen]

I've listened , I've watched, I'll buy it...imho the best most listenable Chris Thile thing done in years...because there's a lot of BG there. Now that's probably the Kiss of death sales-wise and I venture to say won't sell as well as his Nickel Creek, Punch Bros stuff... but its nice to see people do these things for other than commercial reasons...

[Mike Romkey]

Not only is this this the first CT recording I've looked forward to in a while, but this is the first time in a long time that I'm excited about a new recording. Judging from the videos, this absolutely nails it in the sweet spot. I am so happy they are doing this. I'll buy a copy. Heck, I'll buy three!

[Chip Booth]

... I venture to say won't sell as well as his Nickel Creek, Punch Bros stuff... but its nice to see people do these things for other than commercial reasons...

Personally I think it was a fluke that Nickel Creek was commercial at all, but the Punch Brothers a commercial venture? I would say if there was a ever an example of musicians leaving behind any possibility commercial success in order to make the music they want to play it's those guys! I think if you look at CT's catalog (and the simple fact that he chose the mandolin when he could have played anything he wanted to) it's obvious he isn't driven by a desire to be commercial.

[RB250]

As I said B/4, I didn't care for the Punch Brothers Ravinia Concert (Highland Pk, IL) a few years ago but I've already ordered the CD. The videos so far are great and the song selections are too. I can't wait hearing these classics performed by Thile and Davies.
RB250

[Bing Cullen]

.... it's obvious he isn't driven by a desire to be commercial.

Well maybe he has had nothing commercially successful, but the intention was probably there on previous endeavours..this one though I doubt would have little expectation of making dough. But judging from the response on this thread it should be a million seller..maybe a big surprise for them...

[mando.player]

Just got a notification that my CD shipped USPS yesterday. I'm hoping for a Sat or Mon delivery.

[Caleb]

Ordered mine today. Very excited!

[JEStanek]

FYI, for those in the Philly area. The Duo will be playing World Cafe Live on Saturday May 21st at 8:30PM (http://tickets.worldcafelive.com/eventperformances.asp?evt=4015).

[Andrew DeMarco]

Thanks a lot for the heads up JEStanek!

[Jon Hall]

These videos are stirring! I can't wait for the cd.

[pjlama]

Yup, mine shipped yesterday, I can't wait to wear it out.

[mritter]

Am I the first to get it? Just found it in the mailbox.

[Jim Murton]

@mritter i got mine today too. so far i am really enjoying this. i really like the 20/20 vision song. its one of my favorite songs and they do it justice.

[Larry S Sherman]

I got mine too..autographed-very cool!

[sgarrity]

Just found mine in the mailbox!

[mando.player]

First run through right now. It's gonna be on high rotation the rest of the week. I like the ragged aesthetic to the whole project. Daves let's it all hang out and just goes for it.

[Kirk Albrecht]

I got mine today as well. It's one of the best things I have heard in a long time. Wow - what great playing, raw and visceral and full of passion. While not flamenco, these guys have "duende." Should be in line for a Grammy next year.

[SternART]

This CD is really great.....I did some comparison listening last night of this CD to the Monroe Bros. / Skaggs & Rice / as well as Bill & Doc on Smithsonian Folkways/ and the Doc & Grisman stuff from "Home is Where the Heart is". And while I like "Sleep with One Eye Open"......a lot..... and think it is really interesting getting the next generation's take on some of this classic material......and they make it almost new again...... I thought it could have been recorded better..........especially with the analog 8 track & vintage mics. Or, maybe they wanted it to sound this raw, and have an edge......so if that is the case, they were successful. I know Skaggs & Rice was recorded at Arch Street on an old analog 8 track......and to my ears it just has a better mix & sound, especially the remix done in 2000.......it sounds like 2 guys standing in the room playing. And Grisman is known for great sound on his recordings. All in all a great addition to have in the genre & I'm sure this will even get a few die hard BGers to give Chris a try. They rip some of these tunes so fast & play very creatively, one idea after another in the solos......and aside from a few prettier tunes, it is hardcore..........just go for it type playing. An impressive outing in my opinion.

[grassrootphilosopher]

...interesting thread. If I´m not mistaken, the initial post wanted to steer away from the "I like"/"I dislike" path and concentrate on what you heard and why. Three pages later I hardly read one opinion expressed that focused on the recording (musicianship).

I find it interesting to compare a recording effort of this kind to the time proven records and find similarities and differences as well as thinking about the way to play music under such a perspective.

As it has been mentioned referrence recordings are Doc & Dawg, Home Is Where The Heart Is (David Grisman, Curley Seckler, Doc Watson, Ricky Skaggs in the "Brother Duet"-recordings; otherwise the record is a great musical compilation), Doc Watson/Bill Monroe Duets on Rounder, Skaggs & Rice, Monroe Brothers on Bluebird and may I say The Hunger Mountain Boys.

These recordings all have been recorded under specific circumstances in their days, especially the live Doc and Bill recordings in the eighties (live) and the early Monroe Bros recordings. This makes it prohibitive for me to compare the recorded sound with respect to its recording technique.

What interests me is the musical interplay between the musicians. The fewer musicians take part in a recording the more the participating musicians must focus on playing what fits the song/tune and the aditional instrument. This gets especially complicated when natural lead instruments (mandolin) provide rythm behind a natural acompaniment instrument (guitar). The fewer the instruments are in a recording the more noticable the vocal arrangement gets also.

What I noticed listening to the videos while comparing them to the above mentioned recordings is this. The vocals sometimes do not blend. This may be due to the speed of some of the tunes (Rabbit In A Log/Feast Here Tonight) or due to the fact that starting to sing when you´re tearing off some speed-lick is a high difficulty task to perform (same video). I also find that in the harmony arrangements some harmonies do not really match (You´re Running Wild "...how ... go on...".) This may be due to my listening experience concerning my musical tastes but as we are dealing with "Brother Duets" I feel inclined to expect a certain musical language. Maybe that´s just my perception but at this high octane speed do the two musicians are holding the beat? Sometimes I seem to hear slight dents in the beat, especially when Thile pulls of some of his experimental rythmical licks. Here I think taste dominates. While I think that Thile is perfectly at ease playing complicated Bach music I see that here he tries to pull off raw power. That´s his right and he certainly has fun doing so. But is it me or is he sometinmes a little bit strained? I think that Feast Here Tonight would have benefited from a little less speed, a little more focus on the vocal arrangement, some more real interplay between the instruments (Sleep With Oney Eye Open - while I like the rythmical aproach) and a little breathing space within the notes (Thile´s solos, whereas I think he somewhat drowns out MD´s solos with his rythm).

For Feast Here Tonight I´d like to explain my point of view by referring to the vocal arrangements of the following clips. The Rice & Rice clip also shows breathing space and musical interplay between the instruments.

If you listen to the aforementioned recordings I think you´ll might also see my point (while there´s no need to agree). Other than that I appreciate the duo aproach to music.

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[Ken_P]

For Feast Here Tonight I´d like to explain my point of view by referring to the vocal arrangements of the following clips. The Rice & Rice clip also shows breathing space and musical interplay between the instruments.

I guess I'm just coming from a different angle, but comparing the clips you posted of that song to the Thile/Daves version, I find those videos to be incredibly dull. Not only are they much higher energy, but they still play with more control and precision - listen to the little lick that Thile plays at the very end, he manages to make it both blisteringly fast and elegant at the same time. Then again, I will concede that I really don't like the song in general. I admire the playing and energy that Thile and Daves put into it, but the singing leaves me completely cold no matter who's doing it.

[Dave Gumbart]

I got the cd on Saturday,and have given it a listen one time through. I enjoyed it quite a bit and look forward to additional listens. From the liner notes (which are not in front of me at the moment), Chris and Michael state that they wanted to be sure to respect and connect to the original tunes, but, based on where they both are living, that they also wanted to be sure to bring to the project some New York, Lower East Side punk energy. So, yeah, I'd say the rawness and edginess Art referred to is clearly there by design.

Now I have to figure out if I can get up to Boston to see them play in 2 weeks.

[SternART]

[QUOTE=Dave Gumbart / Now I have to figure out if I can get up to Boston to see them play in 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]

I'd go if I were that close!

[Mandotarian]

Does anyone have any extra tickets for the show tomorrow night? I live in NYC and the Rockwood shows keep selling out before I can grab a ticket! I don't have the album yet but have watched the videos and am really looking forward to purchasing a copy.

[BradKlein]

I notice that they've added a July 20th show at Bell House, which is a nice big bar in Brooklyn. Very excited to see the kick off show tonight. I have to think about my fiddle tune requests...

[Larry S Sherman]

I guess I'm just coming from a different angle, but comparing the clips you posted of that song to the Thile/Daves version, I find those videos to be incredibly dull. Not only are they (Thile/Daves) much higher energy, but they still play with more control and precision - listen to the little lick that Thile plays at the very end, he manages to make it both blisteringly fast and elegant at the same time. Then again, I will concede that I really don't like the song in general. I admire the playing and energy that Thile and Daves put into it, but the singing leaves me completely cold no matter who's doing it.

I totally agree, and chalk that up to my personal tastes.

I wish I had a chance to see the duo near me. Hopefully they'll make an appearance later in the year.

Larry

[BradKlein]

This CD is really great.....I did some comparison listening last night of this CD to the Monroe Bros. / Skaggs & Rice / as well as Bill & Doc on Smithsonian Folkways/ and the Doc & Grisman stuff from "Home is Where the Heart is". And while I like "Sleep with One Eye Open"......a lot..... and think it is really interesting getting the next generation's take on some of this classic material......and they make it almost new again......

Art - I took the same approach. Made a playlist in iTunes with Skaggs and Rice, Sleep..., and a handful of the original versions and pondered the different approaches, and the different recordings. My first reaction was, "Oh no! It doesn't sound like Skaggs and Rice!" and it really took some effort for me to get past that one thought. I guess I'm pretty conservative in my own way. I'm still pondering their 'sound', and enjoying thinking it over.

[Bigd18]

They will playing at the Down by the River Festival in Roanoke, VA this Friday.

http://downbytheriver.org/

[Tracey]

I hope they get around to releasing a DVD of the performance that most of these video's came from. The little corner stage, the black and white production, the energy, the interaction, very very cool. I'd love to see the entire performance. 'specially since I can't make one of their tour dates.

[wildpikr]

Mine arrived yesterday from the pre-orders...good stuff! There's a raw-sounding aspect that I like.

In reply to Chris and Michael [at the end of the interview], if you made another record I'd listen to it; I hope you do it again.

[Rob Fowler]

I just got the cd yesterday (finally!!!) and I'm loving it but like others it's taking me a little getting used to the "raw" sound of the recording. That version of Tennessee Blues is pretty smokin'!:mandosmiley:

On another note.....I was looking on iTunes last night and was surprised to see that there is a deluxe version of this recording which has the following extra songs/tunes: Sophronie, Sweet Little Miss Blue Eyes, Brown County Breakdown, Back Up and Push, and a video (like all their other Vimeos) of Man In the Middle. I'm a little bummed that nothing was mentioned of this deluxe version anywhere as I would have definitely gotten it if I had the option.:disbelief: Maybe it's just exclusively on iTunes?

Did anybody else know about this? I know it wasn't ever mentioned on this thread so I'm guessing not?

Overall a must-have recording, I think.

[JeffD]

... I think that Feast Here Tonight would have benefited from a little less speed, a little more focus on the vocal arrangement, some more real interplay between the instruments (Sleep With Oney Eye Open - while I like the rythmical aproach) and a little breathing space within the notes

I think you have a real good point here. I think it can be chalked up to changes in taste over time. We are comparing the real deal, (Jake and Josh and the Rices), with a modern "re-creation" of that genre of music. Thile and Daves do a really amazing and wonderful job, IMO, but they do apply, (or fail to remove) their modern musical sensibility - which includes a bit more muscle and power and "dang we are good" over a relaxed "just folks playin music for ya" presentation. Thile and Daves do their version, with their stamp, and it is a valid and IMO delightful version, but it is a product of this century, not the last.

I really love the two clips you put up, and I also love the new version.

One thing is apparent - Thile and Daves have lovingly put this together. Its obvious that while one can never totally subtract your own individual influence, they are very much respecting and paying homage to the music the way it was played. There is no deliberate attempt to "take this in a radically new direction", thank goodness.

[danb]

Picked it up myself.. really enjoying it, lots of soul and feeling in that music!

[Aran]

Couldn't stand it anymore... just ordered it.... Blimey it's gonna be ages before it gets to Ireland....

[msh_mando]

In watching the "little girl of mine in TN" video, Chris' mando looks to have a scalloped fingerboard extension. Is that his Loar? Anybody know the story there?

[mritter]

I too saw those extra tracks on iTunes. Unfortunately, you have to buy the entire album to get them and I already have the CD.

[Jeff Budz]

Itunes had a "Delux Version" of Antifogmatic too with extra songs and goodies. It just doesn't pay to buy the CD anymore...

[Rob Fowler]

Itunes had a "Delux Version" of Antifogmatic too with extra songs and goodies. It just doesn't pay to buy the CD anymore...

Right, but as far as I can tell, the ONLY extra track on the iTunes version was the Radiohead cover. When the P. Brothers released Antifogmatic they gave the option to buy just the Antifogmatic album or get it with the extra cd of intrumentals + the PBingo night DVD. The iTunes version of "Sleep With One Eye Open" had SIX extra tracks and it just didn't seem to be mentioned as an option anywhere. Bummer.

Nonetheless it's STILL an amazing recording.

[Mike Black]

I just bought the 4 extra bonus tracks and video on iTunes by themselves.

[Ken_P]

Does anybody know if the bonus tracks are available somewhere other than iTunes? I can't stand iTunes (or Apple in general) and refuse to give them my money even if they have something exclusive that I would otherwise want.

[Mike Black]

Don't forget you can pre-order the 7" vinyl single (http://store.thirdmanrecords.com/christhilemichaeldaves-maninthemiddle7vinyl.aspx), "Man In The Middle" b/w "Blue Night" (prod by Jack White III) today!!! I've ordered mine. :mandosmiley:

[Rob Fowler]

I just bought the 4 extra bonus tracks and video on iTunes by themselves.

Yup...I guess that's the option.

[Amandalyn]

Got mine, have listened some, definatley raw, I like it being able to hear the simple recording like this. Nice version of Ook Pik ( key of A?) I play it in G. Also good to hear Missisippi Waltz.

[mritter]

I guess iTunes changed it. Initially, those extra tracks were labeled "Album Only".

[sgarrity]

Just got the extra tracks. I'm lovin' this recording. Talk about breathing some fresh air into traditional tunes.

[Alex Orr]

FWIW, "Sophronie" is the bonus track on Amazon, where I ordered it from. Dang! If I'd known iTunes had those other cuts, I would have ordered there. If I can't buy the extra tracks from iTunes without repurchasing the whole album, this may end up being one of those rare instances where I have to search them out on a bit torrent site. I'd love to hear their take on "Man In The Middle".

In terms of the recording... Let me start off by saying that I really like it. Any criticism I make is trumped by the fact that I really, really like the record. That being said...

I'm having some issue with the production. I honestly think the audio was better on the black-and-white video clips that have been floating around. I've got some really mixed feelings about Jack White as a producer. I loved the Loretta Lynne album he produced, but the Wanda Jackson record was a total train wreck IMO. With this one, I think he went a bit too bare-bones. I get that they wanted to keep it simple, but the album feels a tad flat to my ears. Lots of mids and trebles, but little in the way of lower-end sound. Granted, this has a lot to deal with Thile playing a mandolin and Daves' stylistic lack of low-end in his playing - not much BOOM-chuck and LOTS of heavy, frenetic strumming with what sounds like a capo on a good deal of the time. Of course that style is, to my ears at least, also part of the charm of his playing and this record's sound; it's a double-edged sword. I guess I wonder if White could have done something in the recording to flesh the sound out a bit, perhaps adding some mid reverb? I'm not an expert in recording, so I don't know how feasible it could be, but I do wonder about it.

As has already been mentioned, I've wondered on a few of these cuts whether there was intentional arrhythmic things going on, or if there were moments on some of the faster songs where they just went out of synch for a moment or two and decided to leave it on the recording in the spirit of keeping it somewhat "raw".

All in all though, I really dig this album. I like the sort of controlled/intentional sloppiness that Thile employs, I love the energy, and I love the choice of tunes.

[swampstomper]

The main point here is that these two young musicians who can and do play anything (Thile = Bach, Daves = Yusef Lateef) knew the classic country repertoire (Feast Here Tonight is pre-grass, You're Running Wild is pure country) and early blue grass, and as said above, lovingly developed their interpretation. Of course they have modern sensibilities, it would be fake otherwise. But you can tell they respect and love their roots -- they are not getting above their raising. Listening to Daves talk about singing with Charlie Louvin, you can tell this is not some phony spiel, it is deep from the heart. As long as we have young people like this carrying the music forward, there is nothing to worry about. It also shows that these superpickers can and want to go back to basics for the pure fun of it. We've seen this before with Grisman (especially Bluegrass Reunion where he gave Red Allen a last exposure) and others.

And Otto, you can never compare anyone to the tightness of Flatt and Scruggs -- that was the tightest band ever. But if you compare Thile and Daves to the Monroe Brothers' version of Rabbit I think they are about equally tight. By the way Monroes and F&S and Stanley Brothers all did this in F, these guys notch it up to G and I think that adds to the shrillness and "overspeed". But I am sure they did it for the effect they wanted, more power to their creativity.

[Rob Fowler]

I just got an email from Thile/Daves promotions mentioning the release of the album....also noting the digital "deluxe" version available on iTunes. So they did mention it..now. No harm no foul, though!! Just listened to the album for the 3rd time and just love it more each time. They need to add some California dates to their tour!

[Perry]

Kitchen Tapes for the 21st Century. There's not much more of a perfect instrumental union then guitar and mandolin in my mind and Chris and Michael have a unique take on it. It's nice to hear CT play some things that are very accessible to us mere mortals. Michael does some fantastic flat picking; did not know too much about him so that was a surprise to me. I really like MD's voice and I think the harmonies are great.

I'm not completely sold on the tonal quality of the recording yet but I suspect that will grow on me.

This is a CD I will listen to more then a few times.

[Larry S Sherman]

Here's the latest video...20/20 Vision:



Larry

[JonZ]

Lots of great things on this recording, but it hasn't drawn me in yet. I appreciate what I am hearing, but I will have to wait for a long car trip to see if anything more develops.

[sgarrity]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has noticed the very mid-rangey tone to this recording. I'd definitely like to hear some more bass in the mix. Maybe next time they should get a nice, old D-28 in Michael's hands or add a bass man. If I was recording a Loar and a D-18 I'd be trying to accentuate the bass instead of hide it.

[Keith Witty]

I will have to wait until I go home this weekend to get my copy. I'm loving everything I hear off of it though!

[swampstomper]

It's interesting to hear some of the references they make to the earlier "classic" versions of the songs/tunes. A few I picked up:

-- Ira Louvin's mando break on Running Wild (mentioned above)
-- Charlie Monroe bass runs on Roll In ...; that one has a real Monroe Brothers feel
-- snare-drum style rhythm mando on Sophronie (even though the original didn't have a snare, it gives quite a Jimmy Martin feel)
-- guitar break to Back Up and Push is almos note-for-note Kenny Baker's 2nd variation from Frost on the Pumpkin
-- Bury Me is a clear copy of the Skaggs & Rice version both in tempo and vocal approach

So they pay homage to the classics and then extend in their style. Nice.

[Rob Fowler]

Ok, ok....so I broke down and bought the extra tracks from the "deluxe version" on iTunes. Good Gawd! As far as the quality of the overall recording goes I've listened to it about 5-6 times now and it really grows on you; it just takes awhile for your ears to adapt to it but once it does it sounds as perfect as need be. I think it's exactly what Thile and Daves were shooting for which is truly brilliant on their part.

Time to listen to it for a 7th and 8th time.....Yes, I am a big fan. I'll stop now and quit hogging the posts here....

[Billgrass]

Boil it down to this: it's really a lot of fun to listen to these guys roar thru these tunes!

[Tonear]

An instant classic. Passionate, energetic, traditional and innovative at the same time. Love it.
Regarding the sound quality, I wish for better fidelity. If they were trying to sound retro, they overshot, IMO. On my systems, it is midrangy and the compression bothers me. Maybe that is just tape compression, or they might have smashed it purposely. There are many all-analog recordings with better fidelity. There are many great albums with worse.
Does not take away from how great it is.
T

[Jeff Budz]

I've listened to this album a few times now, and I really like the song selection, playing and singing. My favorite track is Ookpik Waltz, but they are all quite good. This album has introduced me to a lot of songs I had never heard before, and has me looking back to the original versions and learning about those players.

I'm very disappointed in the recording quality. I want it to sound like I am in the room with them, listening with my own ears. Instead, it's like I'm listening to a recording of them played on a midrangey speaker. Why go deliberately low-fi? Can't wait for part II of the interview where they get into the recording techniques and ideology. On the Man in the Middle video the quality is so much better, and it looks like they just did it with a single AT4040 mic. I can actually hear the treble of the mandolin and guitar; what is missing on the album, more than bass in my opinion. In part I of the interview, it states that the signing was done on a figure-8 ribbon mic, with Chris and Michael facing each other. I wonder if they overdubbed the volcals (I wouldn't think so), or this ribbon was also the only pickup for the instruments too...

This album would have been a favorite if it were recorded with modern techniques and quality. Maybe it will grow on me?

[Raymando7]

This is just excellent. Great album, great feel, outstanding pickin' and vocals.

I really hope Chris and Michael come over to the UK sometime soon.

[Douglas McMullin]

I am on my fifth listen and I am really enjoying this release. I love the song selection, playing and vocals. I also really like how they recorded this; for me it lends itself to the nature of these tunes.

[mando.player]

Jack White did not produce this project. Whatever the end result (mics, instrumentation, vocals) I really think it turned put exactly how Chris and Michael intended. I don't mind lo-fi treatment, but I can see how it might put some folks off. My personal sonic nightmare is the Marshall/Thile CD "Into the Cauldron". That artificial reverb they soaked everything in makes it unlistenable. But that's just me.

To the member who asked about the loar. Chris had the fretboard replaced with a scooped and radiused one.

[sachmo63]

Wow, you guys really put a lot of thought into this recording. I've not read every post but have read many and while not to instigate an argument it seems most posters are seriously over-thinking this recording. I may be listening on a complete emotional basis but does anyone really think Chris and Michael would release a recording of this magnitude without both being on board 100% on the entire project? I mean seriously, why look for things to criticize and complain about. I anxiously awaited this release and am in awe of what was done on this CD by both players. Emotionally raw, yes but as many things that are over produced with the "cut and paste" philosophy in bluegrass these days, this cd is a breath of fresh air.

IMHO Both guys are brilliant, and have put this project together completely by feel. They layed down the tracks the way it was done 70 years ago and both have enough prowess to interject their own style to make it modern for today's listener.

If I could offer any advise it would be to turn off the web, just for a while and listen to the power behind the notes and feel the music. Don't get bogged down with fidelity, what kind of mic, pic, strings they're using. Most of us will NEVER have the ability to play like either one of these guys and a better mic isn't going to help us. So, in stead of Analyzing the quality of the recording why not try and analyze how these guys play and how the heck they can both be so talented.

S

[swampy]

I'm loving it so far. I don't think the recording is really that bad, I think it's just that accurate. What you hear is what they actually sounded like at that moment. Michael has a very jangly mid-range sound, I haven't heard much bass in anything he plays, and I've been listening to a lot of his stuff since this project came out. Great record. I'm happy to hear Chris play with that kind of abandon.

[mritter]

This Thile guy can't win with some folks. First he sounds too modern and stylistic, now he sounds too old and lacking production.

[ccravens]

What sachmo63 said.

And mritter.

[danb]

In watching the "little girl of mine in TN" video, Chris' mando looks to have a scalloped fingerboard extension. Is that his Loar? Anybody know the story there?

As one of the resident "people far too concerned with the vintage mandolins" folks.. I have heard he replaced the original fingerboard with a new one (scooped), mainly to improve intonation and playability.

I don't have recent photos of it for the mandolin archive, but I figure we'll get there eventually :)

[Caleb]

...am in awe of what was done on this CD by both players.
Awe is the appropriate response, in my view.

And I agree with mritter, Thile can't win here with some folks.

[Jeff Budz]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Everytime I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I realize this is what they signed off on and wanted, and I'm a big CT fan, so I'm kind of confused. He has always had full-fidelity on his recordings, and that's one fo the reasons I enjoy them so much. Sorry if my dissapointment dissapoints you.

Another album that dissapointed me like this was the final Cadillac Sky album. After 2 great recordings someone decided to go vintage style recording on their 3rd (and ultimatly final) album. It sounds like I got ear muffs on.

[Larry S Sherman]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Every time I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I feel like I'm missing something here....it sounds good to me. I don't even think it's "lo-fi"....maybe "primitive", but not distorted or hissy. The instruments are balanced and on headphones/speakers it's mando left, guitar right.

It feels like I'm right there with them when I listen. Maybe I'm just more inclined to like a raw sound? I'm not sure.

I understand that you're looking for a particular type of production value, but not quite sure what that is. Cadillac Sky sounds a bit over-produced to my ears. Then again, Wakefield/Allen's Kitchen Tapes is what guitar/mandolin should sound like to me.

Larry

[JEStanek]

I also like the more raw sound of this recording compared to Why Should The Fire Die, for example. Like Larry, when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.

Jamie

[Kevin McELvanney]

I'm considering dropping the cash on the itunes version with the extra tracks. Is their a possibility of them releasing a special edition disc in the near future I wonder?

Kevin

[Jeff Budz]

I also like the more raw sound of this recording compared to Why Should The Fire Die, for example. Like Larry, when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.


If you A/B the album vs the black and white videos, you should hear a lot more treble from the guitar and mandolin. It is like night and day to me. For people with mild hearing loss, the high frequencies are the first to go, perhaps that has something to do with some people not being to hear the difference?

In the liner notes, they state that they use ribbon mics on 100% of the recording. Ribon mics are heavily "colored", attenuating the HF response. Condensor mics, like the one used in the B&W video capture the full frequency range of human hearing.

I'm not looking for overdubbing, reverb, effects, or anything like that. The B&W video is MONO with no processing and it sounds fine to my ears. If I were the producer I would have stuck them in a nice sounding room and had them play live into a stereo pair of condenser mics and called it a day.

Deciding to do your recording on 2" 8-track tape using vintage RCA 77 ribbon mics is a bold choice for a modern recording, and is deserving of discussion. I draw a parallel from making a new "vintage sounding" album and new "vintage looking (distressed)" mandolin. Good, bad and indifferent impressions will be held by different listeners / players.

[Caleb]

...when I listen to this it feels like they are on my deck playing live.

Jamie+1 Sounds fine to my ear. I hadn't been this excited about getting a record in a long time. And the autographs will look cool in the mando case.

[Jeff Budz]

+1 Sounds fine to my ear. I hadn't been this excited about getting a record in a long time. And the autographs will look cool in the mando case.

Are you listening to the CD or iTunes version? Have you done an A/B comparison between the album and videos?

[PJ Doland]

What did you all think of the production on How to Grow a Woman from the Ground, which was just recorded with a pair of ELAM 251s?

[Jeff Budz]

What did you all think of the production on How to Grow a Woman from the Ground, which was just recorded with a pair of ELAM 251s?

I can revisit it, but it didn't bother me none. Perhaps it has to do with the combination of ribbon mics and tape? Or maybe the iTunes version doesn't sound as good as the CD version.

[JEStanek]

Jeff, thanks for the info. I had never known or considered that before. I just know what sounds good to me.

I'll most likely be listening to this in either my car while driving (1999 VW Beetle with original JBL speakers) or on my computer with 2 speakers and subwoofer or via headphones. When I compare the recording to similar styles (e.g., old Bill Monroe recordings or even the Red Allen Folkways recording) the Thile Draves recording is still more "pleasant" in terms of production and sound.

Jamie

[Ken_P]

I draw a parallel from making a new "vintage sounding" album and new "vintage looking (distressed)" mandolin. Good, bad and indifferent impressions will be held by different listeners / players.

Excellent point. It seems like they made a conscious effort not just to play older songs, but actually make it sound like an older analog recording. I'm inclined to agree with you - I love the fact that they played everything live, but I would have captured it with the best equipment available today so you could hear the full range of both instruments and voices. When I listen to the album, I feel like I'm listening to a recording, not at all like they're "in the room" as some claim.

Apart from the recording quality, listening to this album has reminded me that I don't really like bluegrass. I think I'd really enjoy a couple of the tracks if they served as a break in part of a more ambitious project, but a whole album of it just starts to grate on me. Even given how much I enjoy the playing, I just can't take the vocal style.

I really related to what Chris had to say in the (wonderful!) interview:


He says that playing some of those traditional songs had started to feel insincere to him. Like that's not really who he is right now. "I'm from Southern California and grew up idolizing Edgar Meyer and Bela Fleck, Tim O'Brien. But when the two of us played these bluegrass standards it gave all that music back to me.

I also grew up idolizing Bela and Edgar (still do), but I kind of had the opposite reaction - this album confirmed that this music is definitely not part of who I am. I enjoy picking a fiddle tune as much as anyone, but I don't like the singing, and I really need something with more meat to be fully satisfied.

[Caleb]

Are you listening to the CD or iTunes version? Have you done an A/B comparison between the album and videos?
CD version. Haven't done any A/Bing to compare. It does sound a bit different than most contemporary recordings, maybe a bit less "sparkly" or "bright." But I like it. Been listening to it all morning. No matter how they recorded it, you can't fake soul, and the whole thing is soaked in that.

[Tracey]

This thread has certainly taken an interesting turn.

90% of the music I listen to is through ear phones on my pc or i-pod. I import CD's at 360 bit rate, and to my ears, at that bit rate I can't really hear a difference. I downloaded the CD fro ITunes and it came in at 256. A bit less than I would have liked, but I'm not sure if I could hear a difference from the CD. Maybe on a good sound system, but I would just import the CD to my PC anyway.

I hope they release a DVD of the full performance that the video's were cut from. Not so much for the audio production, I just enjoy watching the performance and the interaction between Chris and Michael.

I'm relatively new to bluegrass. Though these songs are traditional and obviously been around a long time, I had not heard most of them. This CD is a blast to listen to. That they can play like that and sing like that at the same time is amazing to me.

The music of Bill Monroe is so highly revered here in the Cafe, in an effort to explore the genera from it's founder, I got The Music of Bill Monroe '36-'94. I started listening to the 1st cd, and before it was done I was about ready to slit my throat. Then I jumped to the 4th cd and enjoyed it more. I've noticed the same thing listening to Bluegrass Junction. I like the newer, not so much the vintage. Some people like that raw vintage sound, and the depression era subject matter. And it certainly has its place in the history of the BG. I prefer the more modern evolution of BG, both in terms of the musicianship, and the subject matter. For me this CD is a fine example of bridging that gap.

[Steve Cantrell]

This CD's sound quality is far better than the "How To" CD, which sounded to me like a dirge...listening to parts felt like a strain. I have noticed nothing amiss with this sound---it is a bit midrangey, but I like the vibe it produces. I wonder if Daves is almost slack-string then capoed on this, which might account for some of the rattle he is getting. I understand that he does that fairly often.

[Kirk Albrecht]

I will agree with Budz that the audio quality is better on the B&W videos - clearly better to me. I bought the CD (pre-order, got a couple autographs), have downloaded the 4 extra tunes plus The Man in the Middle video from iTunes. Can't hear a perceptible audio quality difference, but my systems aren't all that sophisticated.

The music is fun, powerful, and raw. I think that is what these two geniuses intended. It is somehow retro and progressive at the same time to my ears. I believe it sounds just as they wanted it to, and I'm glad it does.

[Tbone]

The thing that bothers me is that the playing and singing is so great, why not have a great sounding recording to go with it? Everytime I listen to it I will think about how great it could have sounded.

I realize this is what they signed off on and wanted, and I'm a big CT fan, so I'm kind of confused. He has always had full-fidelity on his recordings, and that's one fo the reasons I enjoy them so much. Sorry if my dissapointment dissapoints you.

Another album that dissapointed me like this was the final Cadillac Sky album. After 2 great recordings someone decided to go vintage style recording on their 3rd (and ultimatly final) album. It sounds like I got ear muffs on.

I agree. Glad I'm not the only one that was dissapointed in the production values. I'm listeining to mp3's through crappy ear buds, so I thought that was an issue....guess not.

I hadn't heard about C-sky, though. Bummer.

Also, one question - is that an octave mando on Mississippi Waltz?

[Mandotarian]

FYI for those in NYC...Rockwood Music Hall released some more tickets for tonights show. I thought I was sold out but got a ticket-looking forward to it!

For anyone that has seen them at Rockwood the last two nights, how was the show? Setlist?

[PJ Doland]

There's something about the rawness and energy of the recording that almost seems to bridge bluegrass and punk.

It's very Brooklyn-hipster, and I understand that some people might be put off by that quality.

I personally think it's the coolest thing I've heard in years.

[dtb]

MD looks like Buddy Holly. love the cd and the direction that CT seems to be at right now.

Dan

[doc holiday]

I was looking forward to hearing what Chris Thiele would do with these tunes & songs. First off, kudos to him for crediting Frankie Rogers with Ookpik Waltz (frequently attributed to trad.). This is a project I would rather prefer to hear live, & i'm sure i would enjoy the performance a lot. I did buy the CD on Itunes, and I wasn't keen on the production. I am a big Bluegrass (and jazz and old country) fan, and appreciate great singers.....so "Sleep With One Eye Open" won't be displacing Skaggs & Rice, & Kitchen Tapes among my favorites. I enjoyed Chris' mandolin playing (of course) but the guitar doesn't do it for me. Give me the D-18 tone of Kenny Smith for example, anytime. The frantic strumming with strings slapping the frets isn't my thing. To quote Charles Sawtelle, quoting a Hawaiian player "too much changalanga." It's always worth $10 to hear Chris Thile play....anytime

[Brian Harris]

I very much enjoy Thile's playing. It's amazing how he can "sing" with his instrument.

Conversely, it's amazing just how awful his vocal melodies are in his original tunes. I often think that if he never sang again, I'd be more than pleased.

However, I do like his voice here. Straight-up bluegrass. It's nothing remarkable, but it's tolerable. It blends well. I think he has a good ensemble voice but not a solo voice (much like mine).

Also: If you want to download these to keep, here's a good website explaining how to do it:

http://ossguy.com/?p=841

It will work on Windows and Mac I imagine.

[mandolino maximus]

It's a pleasant surprise to me to see the project and to to see it coming out of New York. It's got tradition and energy. I think I would enjoy a live performance more than this recording, but it's good to have a recording expanding bluegrass energy. Still, the sound is very high and lonesome and likely won't convert anyone averse to a hint of twang. Recording industry awards are partially dependent on commercial success, so we'll see. But, this ought to get some recognition specific to BG mandolin even if it doesn't end up sweeping the BG status quo off its feet.

About the NY thing, there is definitely an interest in live bluegrass/newgrass in urban areas. This particular type of high energy traditionalism may be emerging as "taking the kid gloves off" during live performances in urban areas. I'd like to see where that could go.

[Jeff Budz]

This CD's sound quality is far better than the "How To" CD, which sounded to me like a dirge...listening to parts felt like a strain.

It's funny that people could have such differing opinions on recordings. I'm listing to "How To" on my monitors right now and I think it sounds great from a recording standpoint. Warm, natural sounding stereo, full frequency response, subtle tube mic compression, like I'm in the room listening to them with my ears, possibly better.

“ It was recorded at Sear Sound in New York using two vintage Telefunken ELA M 251 E mics into a Forsell Technologies FetCode preamp. Most of it was recorded onto the same Studer 1" two-track that was used to mix Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band! Everything was tracked live..." (From Wikipedia)

The mics mentioned above are a stereo pair of what they say are the nicest sounding tube condensor mics ever made:

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/products/show_product.php?item=3&cat=mics

I don't get how you think it sounds like a dirge... Sometimes this type of recording technique won't sound good when summed to mono or played on a system where the speakers are out of phase or improperly positioned, maybe that is it? I worry that many Cafe Members have HF hearing loss thanks to years of jam sessions with evil banjo players... or really mediocre stereos...

[Chris Keth]

There's something about the rawness and energy of the recording that almost seems to bridge bluegrass and punk.

It's very Brooklyn-hipster, and I understand that some people might be put off by that quality.

I personally think it's the coolest thing I've heard in years.

I'm right there with you. The production is simple but I don't hear anything lo-fi about it. I appreciate that it's recorded simply. It's simple music that doesn't need a lot of sprucing up to sound great.

[Popeye39]

Yes, MD does have that Buddy Holly thing going on. I think the audio is spot on for my ear. I love that it is not over produced, nor does it sound like they are playing through two tin cans and a string.

[Douglas McMullin]

I'm right there with you. The production is simple but I don't hear anything lo-fi about it. I appreciate that it's recorded simply. It's simple music that doesn't need a lot of sprucing up to sound great.

+1

This recording sounds great to me. I am on my 9th or 10th listen now and it just keeps getting better to my ears.

[Dave Gumbart]

I've now been through the cd a few times, including once while driving, which is one of the few places in my life where having it a bit loud is still acceptable. The passion of the music is the driving force for me; that it's both played at a high level and is raw-sounding is just fine. I'd mentioned the liner notes previously, and those are pretty straightforward in explaining what they have done/are doing. From Thile: "one of the most enjoyable things about this experience was to underline the slightly delinquent side of bluegrass."

As I listen, I hear a band with a great rhythm section, some mighty fine soloists, some tasteful backup players, and singers willing to let it fly. Ron Thomason has told a story about asking Hazel Dickens to sing with Dry Branch Fire Squad, and Hazel agreed, so long as it was understood the band "would not hold back" in the singing department. For this cd, I don't see where Chris or Michael are holding anything back. And I thank them for it.

[michaelpthompson]

People question the single mic thing, but they did that on purpose because they like the dynamic of it. Michael says it's like when they play live on a small stage, or in a jam session. They discuss it in an interview about the album.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDfkAEzDQ_U

[Don Julin]

OK I have been listening to it all day and I really like the production. It is raw, it does sound like a recording (not like they are in the room with you), and yes ribbon mics have a little less sizzle in the high end. Ribbon mics, vintage preamps, and analog tape has become popular again in part because low distortion digital recording has become very easy to achieve. The gear used in this recording is all known for it's coloration of the sound. I don't want to start big argument here but they did record this at Jack White's studio. They clearly knew what kind of sound they were after. Ribbon mics, tube preamps, and analog tape could all be considered an acquired taste, along the lines of a smokey single malt or a fine cigar. Not everyone will like it, but those who do enjoy it will really enjoy it. Imagine what the Beatles, Zeppelin or Bill Monroe would sound like in a perfect distortion free digital world. yuck!!!!!
I think his recent recordings with Punch Brothers (clean, modern and distortion free) and Michael Daves (gritty, vintage, somewhat lo-fi) will stand the test of time, and the best part about it is we get to watch CT making history right before our eyes! What a great time to be a mandolin enthusiast.

[Jeff Budz]

I don't want to start big argument here but they did record this at Jack White's studio. They clearly knew what kind of sound they were after.

Yes, I agree. Although I would have preferred the sound of condenser mics and less tape smashing/compression, I think this is what they were going for. I bet Daves is a bit of a hipster and had a big influence I this area. Although I don't love the sound I do love the performance, and am on my 6th time through it. Best part is that this exposed me to lots of great songs I had not heard yet.

[JeffD]

What a great time to be a mandolin enthusiast.


!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Don Grieser]

I think the recording methodology adds to the emotional content of music. If it was a beautiful recording (it is, but I mean in the perfect digital sense) and drenched in reverb, it would lose that raw immediacy and power that it has. I for one am really happy Chris did this record--great to hear him play these songs and tunes.

[Ken_P]

I think the recording methodology adds to the emotional content of music. If it was a beautiful recording (it is, but I mean in the perfect digital sense) and drenched in reverb, it would lose that raw immediacy and power that it has. I for one am really happy Chris did this record--great to hear him play these songs and tunes.

Who said anything about reverb or other effects? What I'm arguing for (and I think this is true for Jeff and others on this side as well) is a better representation of the sound that they actually produced in the studio. I want the recording to sound like I'm sitting in the room hearing the actual sound produced by the actual instruments, no more and no less. I think adding digital effects would be as detrimental (or more) to the sound as the analog coloring they chose to use. The technology is easily available to produce stunningly realistic recordings, but they chose not to use it. That, I think, is where the disappointment lies.

[mritter]

I appreciate the art, the artists, and the medium they chose.

[resophil]

I appreciate the fact that in this entire thread, NO ONE has referred to the guitar player as Michael Davies or Micheal Davies, and no one has referred to the mandolin player as Chris Thiele or Chris Theile or Chris Thele as has happened in other threads around here recently... :)

[Larry S Sherman]

Something to help you rest your weary bones:



Larry

[Larry S Sherman]

I appreciate the fact that in this entire thread, NO ONE has referred to the guitar player as Michael Davies or Micheal Davies, and no one has referred to the mandolin player as Chris Thiele or Chris Theile or Chris Thele as has happened in other threads around here recently... :)

Look closer:


I was looking forward to hearing what Chris Thiele would do with these tunes & songs.

:)

[doc holiday]

Guilty as charged. I admit I was carefully trying not to rant, and didn't proof-read carefully enough. Hang me with a J74 or a Roo strap from the nearest rafter....i'll do better next time ( I actually do know how to spell his name) :-)

[ccravens]

I think the Micheal Davies/Chris Thele album is awesome.

[resophil]

Look closer:
Originally Posted by doc holiday I was looking forward to hearing what Chris Thiele would do with these tunes & songs. :)

Dern, I missed that one! The streak continues...

The spelling around here causes a few good laughs from time to time.. Over in the Builders section, there's one entitled " Stain virsus die" going on right now... Quite a choice... :)

[Larry S Sherman]

Guilty as charged. I admit I was carefully trying not to rant, and didn't proof-read carefully enough. Hang me with a J74 or a Roo strap from the nearest rafter....i'll do better next time ( I actually do know how to spell his name) :-)

All in good fun. If it wasn't for the Firefox spell check I would look like I was ileeterite with bad gramma

[Spruce]

My personal sonic nightmare is the Marshall/Thile CD "Into the Cauldron". That artificial reverb they soaked everything in makes it unlistenable. But that's just me.

No, it was not just you.... ;)



In part I of the interview, it states that the signing was done on a figure-8 ribbon mic, with Chris and Michael facing each other.

FWIW, I love recording duet vocals this way....
It really makes them blend nicely on tape....


So, in stead of Analyzing the quality of the recording why not try and analyze how these guys play and how the heck they can both be so talented.


As a recordist, that's the main thing I listen for these days in a recording...
Production fascinates and drives me, and then it helps if the music is really good.... ;)



In the liner notes, they state that they use ribbon mics on 100% of the recording. Ribon mics are heavily "colored", attenuating the HF response. Condensor mics, like the one used in the B&W video capture the full frequency range of human hearing.


Maybe Superman or somebody... ;)
No human being hears like a condenser hears...
A condenser turns the rubbing of fingers into a hurricane, and buttons rubbing on the back of a mandolin into a rockslide....
I call 'em "fleafart mics", as that's what they are capable of picking up.... ;)





Deciding to do your recording...using vintage RCA 77 ribbon mics is a bold choice for a modern recording...

Not really...
77s and other vintage ribbons are used on modern recordings all the time...
Do we indeed know that that is what they used for this recording??
Guess I need to hear this one... ;)


I don't want to start big argument here but they did record this at Jack White's studio. They clearly knew what kind of sound they were after.

For you recordists out there, there is a great article in the recent TapeOp magazine about Jack and his techniques...
You can subscribe for free here (http://www.tapeop.com/subscriptions/), and I think you'll get that article...
Great mag!!

[Aran]

Ended up buying it on itunes only after I had ordered it as a CD.... just plain forgot about the instant technology and being able to shop for an album instantly from home... So... reckon somebody is getting the CD as a birthday present....

One of the tunes I play with guitarists here in Dublin is Billy in the Lowground and I have been really enjoying listening to the version on this album.. very inspiring and full of great ideas but somehow it is still quite accessible.

[Perry]

One of the tunes I play with guitarists here in Dublin is Billy in the Lowground and I have been really enjoying listening to the version on this album.. very inspiring and full of great ideas but somehow it is still quite accessible.

I'm really loving the entire album. Billy in the Lowground is very cool indeed. Is it just me or did they make this a little crooked with an extra half measure thrown in?

Lots of grease and lack of reverb make this a great CD listen for me. Too much reverb tires me out!

While house painting the other day I listened to the CD repeatedly on a $35 boom box; the recording sounded great.

[Spruce]

77s and other vintage ribbons are used on modern recordings all the time...
Do we indeed know that that is what they used for this recording??

Here's a Chris quote from the Thile/Daves website on the recording (Thanks to Don Grieser):

"It was just so much fun, man, like records ought to be—all ribbon mics and not that many of ‘em, and singing into just one RCA 77."

So-ooo, I'm guessing after listening that we are hearing a single 77 in figure-of-8, and a cardioid ribbon (does anyone know which ones??) on each of the instruments....

Listened to the samples and they sounded fine to me....

[Jeff Budz]

So-ooo, I'm guessing after listening that we are hearing a single 77 in figure-of-8, and a cardioid ribbon (does anyone know which ones??) on each of the instruments....

That would be my guess as well.



Listened to the samples and they sounded fine to me....

Not my prefered sound, but over half the commenters seem to like it and hear a difference between previous albums (Antifogmatic, How to Grow a Woman). I hear nothing over 15KHz on this recording, and it sounds kind of 1 dimensional due to not using a stereo pair. And yes, there is artificial reverb. Sounds like an old plate to me, almost certainly a real one. I noticed it during a break (the kind where they stop playing, not where they take a solo) on one of the tunes.

11.3% of the US population has hearing loss, I assume that among musicians that percentage is much higher. Condensor mic isn't super-human hearing, unless you are maxing the gain. All of that stuff (pick noise, string noise, buttons scratching the back of the mandolin) I can hear with my ears still. You might hear it when soloed, but when mixed with other instruments you don't hear it.

[Spruce]

Condensor mic isn't super-human hearing...

It's condenser, and they are a hellova lot more sensitive (thus the Superman comment) than your typical ribbon....
They will accentuate all kinds of stuff (bow noise, pick noise, buttons on mandolins) that I might be able to hear, but that I don't really want on my recordings...

And my hearing has been recently tested and is fine... ;)

[SternART]

Listened to the samples and they sounded fine to me....

On my rig the instrumentals & softer tunes sound fine......but when they are wailing there is an edge to the sound, it just doesn't sound as warm as ribbons & analog should. Possibly I'm hearing distortion, maybe overloading the vocal mic? Or the louder passages over-saturated the analog tape? I haven't had my hearing tested lately, but my rig allows you to hear angels dancing on the head of a pin. Ribbon tweeters & mids driven by tubes, woofers driven by solid state. I can hear what is both good and bad on recordings.

[Spruce]

...but my rig allows you to hear angels dancing on the head of a pin.

So I've heard... ;)

I've only heard the MP3 samples on Amazon on my laptop, which isn't all that great of a listen....

[disguiseglasses]

The recording quality discussion has been very interesting, all. For my money, I've gone through the disc several times on a variety of speaker sets and the audiophile in me thinks the high end, and contrary to what might be more commonly associated with ribbon mics and their HF rolloff/coloration, is a bit piercing. ...but that may just be me.

Having not grown up with these songs and indeed, having very little familiarity with them at all, I find myself drawn more than anything to the recklessness with which they're being played. Both Thile and Daves are, of course, fine musicians and very technically gifted. The chording is beautiful, nearly flawless (especially on the ballads)- but when many of these songs really get going, it seems as though they're teetering on the edge of falling off the rails and into oblivion at any moment. There is something... dare I say, dangerous, about them. I love that Thile and Daves are bringing a bit of an attitude to the music. My dad is a lifelong baseball player and now a coach and he talks about pitchers needing to have a bit of "f--- you" in them in order to pitch really well.

This album has a good bit of "f--- you" in it and I like that. :)

(Also, my apologies for the obscenity...)

[mritter]

I agree disguiseglasses. Very high energy performance. They didn't phone it in.

[Mike Black]

I just got the new 7" 45 single of Man in the Middle / Blue Night produced by Jack White III released on his Third Man Records (http://store.thirdmanrecords.com/christhilemichaeldaves-maninthemiddle7vinyl.aspx)!!!! AWESOME STUFF. They really rock out in the full band setting!!!!!

Chris - Vocals and Mandolin
Michael - Vocals, Guitar & Bass
Cory Younts - Piano
Ruby Amanfu - Kettle drum and background vocals
Carl Broemel - Pedal Steel & Bass VI
Jack White - Drums

Highly suggested!

Time to dust that turntable off. Hopefully you've never quit enjoying the sounds of vinyl. I haven't :)

[SternART]

There is something... dare I say, dangerous, about them. I love that Thile and Daves are bringing a bit of an attitude to the music.

I'm with you there.......like they are walking, or better yet running a tightrope fer sure!
They would be a fun band to see live. Chris oughta take Daves on the road & open with
the duo for a set, then the Punch Bros. and of course add Daves for the encores!

[mritter]

"They would be fun to see live."

Anyone here seen them yet?

[Mike Black]

Am I the only one to get the new 7" single so far? The website says that it's not supposed to ship until the 24th, but I got mine on the 16th. I'm curious what everyone else thinks of these two in a rock setting. There isn't an electric guitar listed but it sure sounds like it. Must be the Bass VI.

[BradKlein]

There's a sample track via Rolling Stone, here. (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/listen-chris-thile-and-michael-daves-hard-rocking-bluegrass-tune-man-in-the-middle-20110516) It's the gospel song, Man in the Middle.

That ain't yr traditional bluegrass gospel recording!!!!!!!!

[Mike Black]

That ain't yr traditional bluegrass gospel recording!!!!!!!!

I agree...They got the spirit! :)

[sgarrity]

I bet I've listened to this 20+ times now and it just keeps getting better. Their energy and wild abandon on many of the tunes is infectious!

[BradKlein]

Just to be 100% clear, the Rolling Stone link is to one of two cuts produced by Jack White for his own label, and (to be) released on a vinyl 7-inch . It's NOT part of the Nonesuch CD which was self-produced and of course doesn't use drums and bass etc.


There's a sample track via Rolling Stone, here. (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/listen-chris-thile-and-michael-daves-hard-rocking-bluegrass-tune-man-in-the-middle-20110516) It's the gospel song, Man in the Middle.

That ain't yr traditional bluegrass gospel recording!!!!!!!!

[Jeff A]

I saw the show last night in Atlanta and it blew me away! They were playing a small room at Smith's Olde Bar to what Chris referred to as a mosh pit crowd. High energy to say the least. Opened with Evening Prayer Blues which is one of my favorite tunes. Lots of great 2 part harmonies and a good number of fiddle tunes, performed in an extraordinary way, were in the 2 sets. Blue night was the encore.

I am not a audio geek, but it seems the CD accurately captures what they were doing live. One mike for voice and instruments. Some of the distortion mentioned might be because Michael was playing a funky Truetone Western Flyer guitar for about half the tunes. Michael is from Atlanta and he was exited to have lots of family in the crowd.

If they are coming your way, don't miss this show.

[pf330ci]

Going to see them tonight in Knoxville! :)

[Vancalot]

Here's a Chris quote from the Thile/Daves website on the recording (Thanks to Don Grieser):

"It was just so much fun, man, like records ought to be—all ribbon mics and not that many of ‘em, and singing into just one RCA 77."

So-ooo, I'm guessing after listening that we are hearing a single 77 in figure-of-8, and a cardioid ribbon (does anyone know which ones??) on each of the instruments....

Listened to the samples and they sounded fine to me....

Hello all,
I've been reading your comments for that last couple weeks and it's been a fun read! I would love to clarify some things concerning the recording of "Sleep..."

I chose to use a RCA 77dx for the bulk of the sound of this recording because of it's classic sound and pattern. I had at my disposal a U47, but because I wanted them to be looking right at each other and blending their voices acoustically it was a better choice than the cardioid or omni 47. It was sent to a Neve 1073 mic pre in the console and then channel one of a Fairchild 670 was inserted in the channel before being sent to track 6. Chris and Michael stood about 1.5 feet apart with the mic between them, quite close.

The instruments were mic'd using a AEA R88 Stereo ribbon to the right side of Chris(left of Michael) parallel and 18 inches back from the 77 at mando/guitar level. It was routed to 2-1073's and then to buss 1/2 routed to track 5/6. A Neve 33609 was inserted at the buss and set to just bump a db of attenuation at the highest level (which was Michael singing!)

For Chris' Mandolin I used a Coles 4038 into the 1073 mic pre about 6 inches from the end pin facing the bridge. No eq, no compression. The mandolin channel was sent to buss 1, and then to track 2 if needed for solos.

Michael's guitar was mic'd in a similar position with a RCA 77d into a 1073, no eq, no compression routed to buss 2, and then recorded on track 7.

I used two "room mics" basically a u47 and a u67 off in random parts of the room routed to 1073's and the to tracks 2/8. These were barely used in the final mixes, but they can be heard at times in the louder Michael vocals.

One last mic, a old Ampex harp mic was placed on a stand parallel to the 77/AEA at vocal height and sent to a fender deluxe reverb in the room. It provided a dirty sort of midrange to the room sound... just barely audible, but there. I mic'd the Fender with a 57 and sent it to track 1.

A Studer A 800 2" 8 track at 7 1/2 ips was the recorder, and the tracks were mixed to a Ampex ATR 100 1" 2 track at 15 ips. RMGI 900 tape was used in recording and in mix. 0/250 nwbr was the operating level, if you are geeky enough to get that! (;-)>

The track sheet looked something like this..
1. Ampex>Fender
2.Room (Behind Chris)
3.Mandolin
4.Left (R88 Left and Mandolin)Mix
5.Right (R88 Right and Acoustic)Mix
6.Vocal
7.Acoustic
8.Room (Behind Michael)

Thanks for all the comments, and I understand that some people were expecting something different/better(?). One man's OMG! is another's WTF!.

Nice talking to you all, keep making great music!

Vance Powell

[Douglas McMullin]

Wow! Thanks for all of the details. Most of it is over my head, but I can say the recording sounds great to me.

[swampy]

Well, alright Vance! Thanks for taking the time to post the specs and whatnot. Awesome.

[mritter]

That should just about settle it. Nice work, by the way.

[LastMohican]

Unbelievable. Every effort like this simply pushes this wonderful music forward in time to the benefit of us all! Chris Thile is one the greatest musicians making music today and it's not about liking a 100% of his stuff. It's about being simply amazed by a lot of it and appreciating the virtuosity of all of it.

[Lynn Dudenbostel]

Well, just got back from the Knoxville show Amazing, as expected! First time I've been to an indoor show where I had to stand the whole time (no seats!), but got to say, I'd stand thru the show again. Chris said this was just their 3rd show together outside of NYC. They sound like they've played together for years. Great harmony and amazing instrumentals. Bury Me 'Neath the Willow may be the best I've ever heard it done. If Chris and Michael are anywhere near your area, the show is a must see!

[JonZ]

I grew up with punk rock, so I "get" the whole edginess thing. But I must be getting to be an old geezer, because I wish there were more pretty songs on the disk. "Bury Me Beneath the Willow" is the only song that really grabs me. Too often it sounds like they are trying to push every song to 11.

I've got teenage sons who push everything to 11. Who gets to sit in the front seat gets pushed to 11. I get enough of 11.

I like the solos, back up, and arrangements, but if they would have just laid back a notch, I would have found it more to my liking.

Great musicians, and there are a lot of interesting things to hear on the recording. If their goal was to burn it up, they succeeded.

[pf330ci]

Well, just got back from the Knoxville show Amazing, as expected! First time I've been to an indoor show where I had to stand the whole time (no seats!), but got to say, I'd stand thru the show again. Chris said this was just their 3rd show together outside of NYC. They sound like they've played together for years. Great harmony and amazing instrumentals. Bury Me 'Neath the Willow may be the best I've ever heard it done. If Chris and Michael are anywhere near your area, the show is a must see!

I agree Lynn, it was a amazing show, and the two encores were a nice plus! I'm sure you heard the group I was with when the guy yelled "SUCK IT UP" to Chris... haha

[mando.player]

So...I'm kind of digging the Jack White produced "Man in the middle" single. I'd love to hear the flip-side "Blue Night". Being a Detroiter, you it's pretty obvious that Jack put his stamp on this one. Even if I didn't know who the producer was, my first guess would have been White.

[Caleb]

I grew up with punk rock, so I "get" the whole edginess thing. But I must be getting to be an old geezer, because I wish there were more pretty songs on the disk. "Bury Me Beneath the Willow" is the only song that really grabs me. Too often it sounds like they are trying to push every song to 11.

I've got teenage sons who push everything to 11. Who gets to sit in the front seat gets pushed to 11. I get enough of 11.

I like the solos, back up, and arrangements, but if they would have just laid back a notch, I would have found it more to my liking.

Great musicians, and there are a lot of interesting things to hear on the recording. If their goal was to burn it up, they succeeded.I prefer slower numbers from most any artist, and I'm enjoying the ones on this record more than the faster ones. Thile's playing on slowers numbers have always moved me more than his more upbeat stuff. Sweet Afton comes to mind, as does Waltz for D.P. et al. Such beautiful playing.

[Don Stiernberg]

That Man in the Middle track can also be found at paste.com

[Don Stiernberg]

ooops i meant to say www.pastemagazine.com

[Alex Orr]

Well, just got back from the Knoxville show Amazing, as expected!
I can't wait to see 'em in Annapolis on Sunday! :)


There's a sample track via Rolling Stone, here. (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/listen-chris-thile-and-michael-daves-hard-rocking-bluegrass-tune-man-in-the-middle-20110516) It's the gospel song, Man in the Middle.

That ain't yr traditional bluegrass gospel recording!!!!!!!!
Well, it's certainly original, however, if I never hear it again it will be too soon. :(

[Spruce]

Hello all,
I've been reading your comments for that last couple weeks and it's been a fun read! I would love to clarify some things concerning the recording of "Sleep..."

I chose to use a RCA 77dx for the bulk of the sound of this recording because of it's classic sound and pattern. I had at my disposal a U47, but because I wanted them to be looking right at each other and blending their voices acoustically it was a better choice than the cardioid or omni 47. It was sent to a Neve 1073 mic pre in the console and then channel one of a Fairchild 670 was inserted in the channel before being sent to track 6. Chris and Michael stood about 1.5 feet apart with the mic between them, quite close.

The instruments were mic'd using a AEA R88 Stereo ribbon to the right side of Chris(left of Michael) parallel and 18 inches back from the 77 at mando/guitar level. It was routed to 2-1073's and then to buss 1/2 routed to track 5/6. A Neve 33609 was inserted at the buss and set to just bump a db of attenuation at the highest level (which was Michael singing!)

For Chris' Mandolin I used a Coles 4038 into the 1073 mic pre about 6 inches from the end pin facing the bridge. No eq, no compression. The mandolin channel was sent to buss 1, and then to track 2 if needed for solos.

Michael's guitar was mic'd in a similar position with a RCA 77d into a 1073, no eq, no compression routed to buss 2, and then recorded on track 7.

I used two "room mics" basically a u47 and a u67 off in random parts of the room routed to 1073's and the to tracks 2/8. These were barely used in the final mixes, but they can be heard at times in the louder Michael vocals.

One last mic, a old Ampex harp mic was placed on a stand parallel to the 77/AEA at vocal height and sent to a fender deluxe reverb in the room. It provided a dirty sort of midrange to the room sound... just barely audible, but there. I mic'd the Fender with a 57 and sent it to track 1.

A Studer A 800 2" 8 track at 7 1/2 ips was the recorder, and the tracks were mixed to a Ampex ATR 100 1" 2 track at 15 ips. RMGI 900 tape was used in recording and in mix. 0/250 nwbr was the operating level, if you are geeky enough to get that! (;-)>

The track sheet looked something like this..
1. Ampex>Fender
2.Room (Behind Chris)
3.Mandolin
4.Left (R88 Left and Mandolin)Mix
5.Right (R88 Right and Acoustic)Mix
6.Vocal
7.Acoustic
8.Room (Behind Michael)

Thanks for all the comments, and I understand that some people were expecting something different/better(?). One man's OMG! is another's WTF!.

Nice talking to you all, keep making great music!

Vance Powell

Thanks so much for that!!

I love to hear how other folks are doing things, and as it turns out we're on a similar path...
Analog tape here too, and I love using a good ol' ribbon for duet vox...

Interesting choice of a 4038 on the mando--have to try that one...

That harp mic trick might be what folks are WTF'ing about...
I have an old EV shotgun mic that I have permanently mounted high on the wall that I have on at all times, even if the music is sweet and lovely...
Really helps glue things together....
You can see it in this pic:

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee22/e_stamp/P1100653.jpg

Anyway, thanks for the track sheet and spillin' the beans...
Have to go have another listen...

PS....
Do you mind if I share your post with the TapeOp folks??

[SternART]

One last mic, a old Ampex harp mic was placed on a stand parallel to the 77/AEA at vocal height and sent to a fender deluxe reverb in the room. It provided a dirty sort of midrange to the room sound... just barely audible, but there.
Vance Powell

Well that explains what I'm hearing...that barely audible but there ....
thanks Vance!:disbelief:

[clem]

Congrats Vance (and to Chris & Michael) for making one of the most powerfully beautiful records in recent memory. To me, punk energy bluegrass with all the control and nuance that great musicians can bring to their instruments, the songs and the performances. I'm stoked by "Sleep With One Eye Open" and I don't stoke easy.

Hello all,
I've been reading your comments for that last couple weeks and it's been a fun read! I would love to clarify some things concerning the recording of "Sleep..."

I chose to use a RCA 77dx for the bulk of the sound of this recording because of it's classic sound and pattern. I had at my disposal a U47, but because I wanted them to be looking right at each other and blending their voices acoustically it was a better choice than the cardioid or omni 47. It was sent to a Neve 1073 mic pre in the console and then channel one of a Fairchild 670 was inserted in the channel before being sent to track 6. Chris and Michael stood about 1.5 feet apart with the mic between them, quite close.

The instruments were mic'd using a AEA R88 Stereo ribbon to the right side of Chris(left of Michael) parallel and 18 inches back from the 77 at mando/guitar level. It was routed to 2-1073's and then to buss 1/2 routed to track 5/6. A Neve 33609 was inserted at the buss and set to just bump a db of attenuation at the highest level (which was Michael singing!)

For Chris' Mandolin I used a Coles 4038 into the 1073 mic pre about 6 inches from the end pin facing the bridge. No eq, no compression. The mandolin channel was sent to buss 1, and then to track 2 if needed for solos.

Michael's guitar was mic'd in a similar position with a RCA 77d into a 1073, no eq, no compression routed to buss 2, and then recorded on track 7.

I used two "room mics" basically a u47 and a u67 off in random parts of the room routed to 1073's and the to tracks 2/8. These were barely used in the final mixes, but they can be heard at times in the louder Michael vocals.

One last mic, a old Ampex harp mic was placed on a stand parallel to the 77/AEA at vocal height and sent to a fender deluxe reverb in the room. It provided a dirty sort of midrange to the room sound... just barely audible, but there. I mic'd the Fender with a 57 and sent it to track 1.

A Studer A 800 2" 8 track at 7 1/2 ips was the recorder, and the tracks were mixed to a Ampex ATR 100 1" 2 track at 15 ips. RMGI 900 tape was used in recording and in mix. 0/250 nwbr was the operating level, if you are geeky enough to get that! (;-)>

The track sheet looked something like this..
1. Ampex>Fender
2.Room (Behind Chris)
3.Mandolin
4.Left (R88 Left and Mandolin)Mix
5.Right (R88 Right and Acoustic)Mix
6.Vocal
7.Acoustic
8.Room (Behind Michael)

Thanks for all the comments, and I understand that some people were expecting something different/better(?). One man's OMG! is another's WTF!.

Nice talking to you all, keep making great music!

Vance Powell

[Dan Johnson]

thanks for chiming in Vance. Nice work. One thing I've noticed as I've listened to the album with headphones, earbuds, Bose speakers, and a built-in laptop speaker, is that there's really a lot of differences in the sound... Did you mix this album for a specific listening medium?

[swampstomper]

Well, it's certainly original, however, if I never hear it again it will be too soon. :(

Sorry to say I have to agree. I really dug the duet tracks recorded as described by Vance Powell. But this one seems a really poor approach to a great song, written by Tom Harley Campbell, lately of Mecklenburg in upstate NY (my Subaru mechanic is just around the corner from his former house). This was recorded by Ralph Stanley but not so inspired IMHO. The kicking version is by Skyline, with only Tony Trischka's banjo as backup, and tremendous, stark vocals by Dee Dee Wyland, Barry Mitterhoff, Danny Weiss.

The song reminds me of Larry Sparks compositions like "I Am the Man, Thomas" -- very simple, straight story right out of the Gospels, powerful.

[Jeff Budz]

Sorry to say I have to agree. I really dug the duet tracks recorded as described by Vance Powell. But this one seems a really poor approach to a great song,....

it sounds like a remix to me, like Chris and Michael recorded it as duo then Jack White layered a bunch of tracks on it. Not a "band" recording for sure. The drums start and stop for no good reason, and there are some weird response vocals.

I love the man in the middle duo video from the extends iTunes album download.

[Gan Ainm]

Had hoped to see them at The Southern in Charlottesville last night. We were herded into a room where I had recently seen 'grass in a chair /table environment, to find no chairs and people packed in standing. We had an “older” (meaning a little older than me!) woman with us who just had knee surgery and she couldn’t stand. The only seat we were (grudgingly) offered for her was way off to the side, out of site line behind packed crowd and it was very uncomfortable, so we got a refund and left. Hated to do it but could not tolerate that kind of treatment of a disabled music lover. The crowd seemed to have lots of young people willing to mob the floor/stage and some other older music lovers like us who expected that a show billed as two acoustic musicians playing through one mike singing classic duets would be a sit down listening venue. The manager said that the promoters/band insisted on this kind of show which I thought was odd but seems to gel with some other comments here. Has anyone seen this tour in a “sit down” concert type venue? And why would a group want to present such elegant music only in a stand up “hard on old people” environment? Went home with our friends and listened to the CD and it was wonderful!

[Rex Hart]

FWIW, love the album, especially Chris' discordant solo on Sleep With One Eye Open, don't care at all for the Man In The Middle version. I know, probably not cool, but just sounds like noise to me.

[re simmers]

Just got the great "Sleep with one eye open" CD. ENERGY, DRIVE! Fantastic.

I went to the "Man in the Middle" link. Sounds like they were playing in the kitchen......to a loud stereo in the living room. I am with Rex. It's noise!

Bob

[Alex Orr]

I saw 'em last night in Annapolis :)

The show was FANTASTIC! Two sets, both around an hour long, with a short set break. The two appeared to be having a blast up there. Of course the picking was terrific, but the thing that really stood out was how well they did the harmonies live. Their vocals are really something to hear. Basically they played the whole album as well as some fiddle tune medleys made up of audience requests. As one of the folks I was with pointed out, the audience must have been loaded with pickers because the fiddle tune requests came fast and furious and were quite varied. As I recall, one of the medleys they played consisted of St. Annes->Big Sandy River->Cherokee Shuffle. They played the hell out of Cherokee Shuffle. Ook Pik Waltz was gorgeous, and the crowd was so silent that I think you could literally hear a pin drop throughout the tune. If they ever do another tour and are in the area, I will make it a point to get tix as soon as they go on sale.

[Schlegel]

Saw them at the Southern, they did a great job there as well. I also think the live vocals were better than on the the CD, perhaps from all the touring. Some of those who felt the CD was a bit too "dirty" and unpolished would have liked the live show better, I think. Not that it was clean and polished, no, it was still lively and raucous, but the vocals were noticablely cleaner and tighter, IMO.

[Schlegel]

I do wish the crowd had shut up for the quiet songs, though. Some people had to be audibly shushed. A byproduct of a younger audience.

[Johnny Mandolin]

So I have been following this thread from the beginning and just now decided to chime in. First of all I love the album, I have been playing it pretty non-stop. My hats off to you Mr. Powell! Also I have loved following this thread and hearing from individuals much more knowledgeable in the nuances of sound and music than I am.

So the reason I am chiming in, and I don't believe anyone else has brought this up that I can remember and if so I apologize for the repetitiveness. In the liner notes of "Sleep with One Eye Open" it mentions that Thile and Daves recorded 23 tracks over 4 days of which they chose 16 for the album. Four of these tracks can be found on the deluxe version on iTunes and two more can be found on the Jack White produced 7" vinyl single "Man in the Middle" with "Blue Night" on the B side. So if my math is correct that adds up to 22, leaving one unnamed track floating around out there. Does anyone happen to know what this track may be? Regardless of what it is I would love to hear it and I hope that it sees the light of day at some point in the future.

Cheers and happy pickin'
Johnny

[Mike Romkey]

A pair of 1073s ... to sleep, perchance to dream!

[Spruce]

A pair of 1073s ... to sleep, perchance to dream!

Yeah, I'm surprised this quote got past us without a lot of comment:

"For Chris' Mandolin I used a Coles 4038 into the 1073 mic pre about 6 inches from the end pin facing the bridge."

A very unorthodox mic'ing technique and mic choice....
And I'll give 'er a go the next chance I get... ;)

[Scotti Adams]

Playing Old Time music with tuners on the head stock....how cheesy. Something about that just doesnt seem right

[AlanN]

I do wish the crowd had shut up for the quiet songs, though. Some people had to be audibly shushed. A byproduct of a younger audience.

Age-old deal. Wasn't there a bit on CSN&Y 4-Way Street, where somebody (Graham Nash?) said 'Wooden music...'.

[Wolfboy]

Between songs during a Grateful Dead acoustic set, Harpur College, Binghamton, NY 5/2/70 (as documented on Dick's Picks Volume 8):

Jerry Garcia: "All right, all right..."
Phil Lesh: "All right, how do you expect us to play music when you're screamin'?"
Bob Weir: "Yeah! Cool it, you guys, cool it, cool it!"

[mandotim1955]

Heard this for the first time today. Just off to burn some instruments...
Tim:)

[Salmon Falls Strings]

Just saw these guys at One Longfellow Square (great venue for acoustic music) in Portland Maine on Wednesday night, wow. I can honestly say it was the most fun show we have ever been to. The vocals and picking were amazing. It was the last night of the tour, so they really just let it all out. The fiddle tune requests were great ("Gold Rush", my request, which was pretty cool), they even did a blistering version of "Rawhide". "Footprints in the snow" was accompanied by a nice Bill Monroe story. All in all, the cd is great but seeing it live was one the more inspiring moments for me as a musician.

[PJ Doland]

Some of you fogeys really need to get over tuners being clipped to the headstocks.

They're here to stay. Deal with it.

[Spruce]

"Footprints in the snow" was accompanied by a nice Bill Monroe story.

Could you elaborate a tad?
Thanks!

[Salmon Falls Strings]

Chris told a story about someone calling up Bill (sort of a prank phone call) and asking him a question about the song. Specifically, why does the song say "I bless that happy day, when Nellie lost her way", when Nellie obviously passes away in the song? Bill said "son, those old songs don't mean nuthin'". I'm pretty sure that's how the story went, although the drinks were flowing. The banter between Chris, Michael and the crowd was half of the fun.

[BradKlein]

That Monroe story hinges on whether Nellie dies out there in the snow, or as I prefer to believe, is rescued by the singer and lives to a fine old age before eventually passing away. I don't think Bill worried about the niceties of plot too much. At least he wasn't going to let it ruin a perfectly good song.

[Rob Fowler]

Hi all,
Was doing some surfing on youtube this morning and found some new Thile/Daves vids from their recent East Coast tour.

Brighton Music Hall in Boston from 24 May.

QDH7D2r5_JE&feature=related

7K0udhoWCqo&feature=related

e6-rsWfQ89I&feature=related

9Mtw5cDdlp8&feature=related

c6CCeUdM7Rk&feature=related

EKD7vSWypNw&feature=related

Some good quality vids from WNRN radio

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SJrGnMApub8&feature=relmfu

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Some show that doesn't say from where: Red-haired Boy/Whiskey B. Breakfast

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Is it just me or have I been listening to this stuff a bit excessively?

[Ed Goist]

Rob; thanks for taking the time to find and post all of these. Fantastic...Bookmark time!
I just love their fun version of Arkansas Traveler...Gotta' love these guys!
Has Chris Thile ever disclosed what planet he is from?
Fortunately; his species does seem to be peaceful, benevolent, and gracious toward us humans, despite their clear superiority.

[JonZ]

I have been thinking a little more about why I don't really like this album as much as I would have expected, and I blame Michael Daves. Both guitar and vocals remind me of the guy who has to be the loudest and fastest at the jam session. He also goes overboard with the twangy emo of his vocals. It reminds me of when certain white people sing a traditional black song, and instead of making it their own, it's all "Oh Lawd" and "Dem Blues gots me down".

Chris makes it sound effortless and natural to be playing chromatic runs at 2000 BPM, and his voice is unaffected.

Just my humble, subjective opinion, of course.

[mritter]

Those are great videos from the Boston show. Thanks for finding them Rob.

[coreybox]

really enjoying this CD!

Their live youtube stuff (particularly the black and white series) is fantastic too! I think I like the live version of "sleep with one eye open" even better than what's on the CD.

[Buddah]

I have been thinking a little more about why I don't really like this album as much as I would have expected, and I blame Michael Daves. Both guitar and vocals remind me of the guy who has to be the loudest and fastest at the jam session. He also goes overboard with the twangy emo of his vocals.

Kind've agree with your "twangy emo" description of Daves' vocals. I also find his rhythm playing to be at times distracting...maybe a tad too busy (IMHO)? In his defense, however, how tough/intimidating must it be to be in the studio with Chris Thile, trying to convey to the listener at least some sense of who YOU are as an artist? Overall though, really dig the recording, and hope these two continue collaborating in the future; it'll just get better and better!
I would also add that I really dig some of the live youtube posts from their recent shows...neat to actually see/hear evolution in progress!

[doc holiday]

Jon Z. Thanks for your candid opinions. As a big Bluegrass fan, I was looking forward to the CD, and honestly was very disappointed, on a number of different levels. It doesn't mean that I am not a CT fan because I really enjoy his playing especially with Mark O'Connor & Bryan Sutton on the 30year retrospective. On the upside, I have been bowled over by the CD "Sweet Loam" by Joe Walsh which I totally came upon by chance and which exceeded any expectations. My guitar favorites run as far as Robert Bowlin and Scott Nygaard....so now I'm hunting for the Scott Nygaard/Joe Walsh...Crowmolly works...now there's a match of guitar & mandolin talent....

[JeffD]

Most of us will NEVER have the ability to play like either one of these guys and a better mic isn't going to help us.

I can't play like both of them. er... umm..

[Popeye39]

Thile's playing after the second verse of, Bury Me Beneath The Willow, is one of the tastiest things I've ever heard.

[A 4]

Thile's playing after the second verse of, Bury Me Beneath The Willow, is one of the tastiest things I've ever heard.

Bury me Beneath the Willow was the highlight of the show in Annapolis for me. I was not alone: the Ram's Head has tables with drinks and food, but I have never heard as quiet an audience as I did during that song.

[Perry]

I have been thinking a little more about why I don't really like this album as much as I would have expected, and I blame Michael Daves. Both guitar and vocals remind me of the guy who has to be the loudest and fastest at the jam session. He also goes overboard with the twangy emo of his vocals. It reminds me of when certain white people sing a traditional black song, and instead of making it their own, it's all "Oh Lawd" and "Dem Blues gots me down".

Chris makes it sound effortless and natural to be playing chromatic runs at 2000 BPM, and his voice is unaffected.

Just my humble, subjective opinion, of course.


I don't get that all. I really like the vocal and guitar style of Michael Daves...sounds real good to me. He can play.

Also I think Michael Daves' heavy right hand rustic approach is a nice foil to Chris' clean style. Though Chris does put a fair amount of grease on it on this CD which makes it probably my favorite Thile CD.

I'll gush a little more...this is my favorite mandolin themed album since "Stomp". A treasure trove of ideas.

Love the 'affected' sound of the recording too.

[mtucker]

looks like the real deal to me.

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[mritter]

Good video mtucker that shows Daves' ability to play to the group. In the Thile duo, he's more heavy handed/go-for-broke. Just having fun. Here he's cleaner and more reserved...obviously the banjos are being featured, but...

I really like his playing; and singing as well.

[JonZ]

I like the mandolin too. Who knows, maybe Daves will grow on me.

[Steve-o]

Jon,
For what it's worth, I tend to agree with you since I find myself a bit schizophrenic over Daves delivery. Much like Monroe, his voice can grate on my nerves, and his harsh attack on the strings too. Yet, I enjoy the music, the high lonesome sound, the raw emotion, and the unabashed fun of it all. I listen to the CD when I am in the right mood for it.

[JonZ]

Yeah, I get the high lonesome thing, but I think some of the songs are a little too high for his range. It hurts my throat to hear some one strain like that. (Yet I like AC/DC--go figure!)

He is obviously very talented. More power to anyone making a living at playing music.

[A 4]

I've seen Daves three times, once with Chris Thile and twice with Tony Trischka. That intensity is great live, especially when you can watch him play. It really doesn't come across well without the visual. Not that he's putting on a scripted "show," but playing and singing with full effort.

If I had a chance to see Michael Daves again, I would go. He's not always at fast tempo. I like this song a lot:
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I did not buy the Thile/Daves album, because I don't think I will enjoy the recorded songs as much without the visual. I did buy digital versions of some of the slower songs, because after hearing their version of "Bury Me Beneath the Willow" in Annapolis...Wow.

[BradKlein]

Great news! A 20+minute live video posts to the NPR Tiny Desk concert podcast, here. (http://www.npr.org/2011/06/13/137090061/chris-thile-and-michael-daves-tiny-desk-concert?ps=mh_frimg3)

You can watch or download the audio only or the video.

Enjoy!

[J. Galoshes Esq.]

Great news! A 20+minute live video posts to the NPR Tiny Desk concert podcast, here. (http://www.npr.org/2011/06/13/137090061/chris-thile-and-michael-daves-tiny-desk-concert?ps=mh_frimg3)

You can watch or download the audio only or the video.

Enjoy!

Wow, good find. Thanks. :mandosmiley:

[J.Albert]

I saw the following over at dealmac.com this morning:
===
Today (6/16/11) only, Amazon MP3 Store again offers downloads of Chris Thile & Michael Daves' Sleep With One Eye Open bundled with a digital booklet for $3.99. That's the lowest price we could find for this 17-track country album released in May 2011. (iTunes charges $10.99.) Amazon MP3 Downloader is required.
===
Link to album:
http://dealmac.com/lw/artclick.html?1,471919,1609542
Link to digital booklet:
http://dealmac.com/lw/artclick.html?1,471919,1609542

- John

[Marty Henrickson]

Just did the $3.99 download and listening on cloud drive as I type. So far, so good. I like the gritty feel.

[Don Grieser]

You can hear them live at Telluride Bluegrass streaming right now on KOTO FM.

[Ed Goist]

I've been listening to Sleep With One Eye Open pretty non-stop for the past few days.
It sounds both old and new, traditional and edgy, raw and polished, serious and fun, Bluegrass and not.
It's a wonderful divergence of contradictions with virtuosity on top...
I expect fairly heavy rotation of this one on all my music listening devices for some time.

[coletrickle]

I also took advantage of the recent discount download on Amazon (I was going to wait for Father's day but hated to loose out on a deal like that). I have to say that after following all of the hype and discussion I was and still am blown away by this recording. I've been watching the videos and reading the discussion, not to mention listening to Thile's many projects for the past decade, so I had a very good idea what to expect. But after repeated listening it just keeps getting better. I've listened to it on my nice studio monitors, on some cheap headphones and on an iPod dock and have enjoyed the sound on each (although I also enjoyed the sound on "Into the Cauldron" just for its "airyness").

I think the standout track for me is "Loneliness and Desperation". It is just relentless. I will say that I came into this expecting an album of acoustic music that was closer to rock than the Blue Sky Boys, so I think that really helped my enjoyment.

[JeffD]

I've been listening to Sleep With One Eye Open pretty non-stop for the past few days. ...
I expect fairly heavy rotation of this one on all my music listening devices for some time.

I listened through once. Then I put it on my mp3, each track to rotate randomly with 3000 other songs and instrumentals, OT, BG, original vintage recordings, modern recreations, all of it. So I don't know when the tunes will pop up.

I listen to this mp3 player all the time, and always in random mode. So I hear everything in its context of the music I love, and not as the artists that I love. And I can't predict where its going to go next.

I was listening recently while I made the six hour drive to DC from NY, and it so happened that Thile and Daves version of Bury Me Beneath the Willow came on about 45 minutes after the Skaggs Rice version. I didn't recognize it was Thile, but I did recognize that it was the same tune. And I loved it. Deeply and thoroughly as much as any other version I have ever heard. And then I pulled over came to a stop and looked at the little screen and saw it was Thile and Daves.

So I can say that they do deliver, even in blind taste tests.

[Ed Goist]

Thile & Daves just posted this to their Facebook page:
Videos from a five song mini-concert courtesy of Paste Magazine (http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/av/2011/06/live-from-paste-chris-thile-and-michael-daves-1.html).

[Ed Goist]

Thile & Daves just posted this to their Facebook page:
Watch the live webcast of our WNYC Soundcheck at The Greene Space today at 2pm ET, here: http://thegreenespace.org/

(Added after webcast):

Wow. That was excellent. There was a great moment right after an amazing performance of Darling Corey...
Lots of applause...
John Schaefer (the Program Host of Soundcheck): "Chris Thile & Michael Daves...Our audience certainly likes it...Personally I think you guys are showing off!"
Chris Thile: "You've busted the Bluegrass code, John."

[Marty Henrickson]

John Schaefer (the Program Host of Soundcheck): "Chris Thile & Michael Daves...Our audience certainly likes it...Personally I think you guys are showing off!"
Chris Thile: "You've busted the Bluegrass code, John."

Well, duh. That's what solos have always been for, right?

[Ed Goist]

Well, duh. That's what solos have always been for, right?

An interesting question, and one whose answer, I think, is not so obvious.
In my opinion, the greatest soloists (David Gilmour comes to mind) play solos that primarily accent and compliment the tune, and aren't specifically designed to showcase virtuosity...Interesting topic.

[Ken_P]

As a regular soundcheck listener, I've known about this one for a while, and was sitting literally 5 feet from Chris and Michael - fun stuff! There was a video feed, so that should be available in the archive soon (link (http://www.wnyc.org/thegreenespace/events/2011/jul/20/soundcheck-greene-space/)). Hopefully the camerawork was close enough that my head isn't in most of the shots (though if you see a balding head sitting front row center, it's me) :).

As for the other part of the broadcast with Del and the Preservation Hall Jazz Band, I agree with what seems to be the general consensus from the other thread. It's a lot of fun, but they don't blend so much as Del and the band sometimes take over when the horns stop. Ronnie's Gilchrist was pointed directly at my head the whole time and I couldn't hear it at all when the whole band was going.

[Dick Wade]

I watched them at Grey Fox last week and they blew me away. In my opinion they were one of the best shows there. The energy they play with swept me away. It was like the Louvin Brothers on steroids and meth.