Ovation vs. Weber

[sallyrob]

I have a Bitterroot Weber and an Ovation Mandolin. I know the Weber is a much nicer instrument and does have a bolder sound. My problem is I enjoy and find it much easier to play the Ovation than the Weber! Someone help, what is going on or wrong with me.

[CES]

NOTHING is wrong with you!

We all have different opinions regarding our favorite mandolin set-up and "feel." Some like beefier neck profiles, some thinner, some v-shaped, some speed necked, etc. Then there's radiused vs flat board, thin versus larger frets, higher versus lower actions, string gauge preference, etc...

It may simply be that you prefer the neck profile of your Ovation. Another thought, though, is to make sure your Weber is set-up as well and close to your preferences as it can be...this can make a huge difference in how an instrument feels...

If you just can't get the Weber to your liking sell it and find another purely acoustic mandolin that fits your preferences. Weber makes outstanding mandolins, and I like their neck profile a lot, but they're not necessarily not for everyone...:mandosmiley:

[Jim Ferguson]

I agree with Chuck.......we all have our own preferences when it comes to the mandolin........A vs F model, radiused vs non-radiused neck, etc etc etc and even the sound. I played a Weber Yellowstone today that was gorgeous........my mando is a Gibson F-9 which I absolutely love........BUT.......I too have played ovation mandolins (acoustic/electric) and LOVED that mandolin........it has a great sound to it and plays very well.......so I can appreciate your feelings. It all comes down to what you like so don't "fret" about it....:-)
Peace,
Jim

[Ed Goist]

Attraction to something (or someone), and the tendency to bond with something (or someone) is usually driven by hugely subjective factors. This is one of the things that makes life so unpredictable and fascinating.

I purchased an "in stock" mandolin not built to my specifications from a fine luthier, and I absolutely fell in love with it almost from the moment I started to play it. Hence, I custom ordered another mandolin from the same luthier, and had it built to my specifications and with the tonewoods of my choice.

I never bonded with the custom built mandolin (though it was of equal or greater quality) and sold it after just a few months.

You never know with these things.

[Tim2723]

I get the same feeling when I really enjoy a $20 domestic wine over a $60 French import. I know the French wine is better. It cost more, it came from France, it's made in the Old World way, all the experts say it's better. What's wrong with me?

[Charlieshafer]

I get the same feeling when I really enjoy a $20 domestic wine over a $60 French import. I know the French wine is better. It cost more, it came from France, it's made in the Old World way, all the experts say it's better. What's wrong with me?

That's hard to say. You'll need to send samples of the wine to me so I can see if your impressions are accurate.

[sallyrob]

Thanks everybody for comments makes me feel better about it all, I really want the Weber to be the first one I reach for, some of the double stops I like to play are easier to reach with Ovation, it does have a smaller neck, about the wine idea, I like the sending samples and let us all make a decision on that!

[Aisha]

I get the same feeling when I really enjoy a $20 domestic wine over a $60 French import. I know the French wine is better. It cost more, it came from France, it's made in the Old World way, all the experts say it's better. What's wrong with me?

?! Curious to know what French wine you tasted and what US wine you are talking about -I'm interested in wines :). Here in Belgium I pay +/-7EUR (slightly more in USD) for a bottle of Bordeaux or Medoc, occasionally I spend a bit more on a Margaux and these wines taste just fine... to me that is! Now a more expensive Côtes du Rhône (another French region), I won't like it at all, like I'd rather drink water instead. Wines are very very subjective and you will have all sorts of opinions no matter the prices or whether you'll talk to a specialist or not. The taste also depends on many factors like the vineyard, the year (there are good ones and not so good ones in France), in which conditions it was exported to the US and stored there, how long you wait to open the bottle once you bought it, important also is what you eat with it (not any type of food goes with any wine), and so on.

I'm not a wine specialist, anyway from my little experience I find it at least as complicated as choosing a mandolin ;).

[Tim2723]

Hello Aisha! Forgive me for making a confusing statement. I was speaking metaphorically and by example. I meant that we sometimes feel strange if we find what some may consider of lesser importance to be more satisfactory. Sadly, I know nothing of wine and even less about mandolins!

[Jeff Budz]

sallyrob, have you had both mandolins set up, do both have the same type of strings? Is it that you don't like the feel of the Webber or the sound? It's been my experience that setup can make the same mandolin play & sound crummy, or play & sound like a million bucks. Might be worth bringing them both to a a setup guy for his opinion.

[sallyrob]

Jeff, thanks for input, when I bought the weber I did not have it set up, I have emailed weber about finding a location in my area to have it set up, on the ovation I have to buy a string with a ball end because of the type of bridge it has, the strings are .010,.014,.024, .036 and the weber is what they recommend GHS 11,16,26,40, so that there could be an issue, I may change to lighter strings on weber and see what happens, thanks for your thoughts,:)

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

Lighter strings will most definitely make a difference in how a mando feels. Lighter, obviously, easier to play and fret, etc.

[michaelpthompson]

A good setup will definitely make a difference. Don't know how playable the Weber is without trying to play it, but if you've never had that done, it's certainly worth having a luthier look it over and see if anything needs to be done. It's doesn't have to be a factory approved person or anything, it's a fairly standard procedure for music instruments. You might mention what part of the country you're in and see if anybody here can recommend somebody, or there are a few good people on this board (Big Joe (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/member.php?6990-Big-Joe) I think is one) to whom you can ship it and have it done.

Having said all that, I have an Ovation myself. The action needs to be a bit lower, but I very much love playing this mandolin. As people have said, all this is pretty subjective.

[Tim2723]

You mentioned double stops being easier to reach. That might suggest a small difference in scale length that's important to your hands. What is the scale length of your Weber?

[mandroid]

The amplified one puts the sound back towards your ears?

[hank]

Hi Sally, I think your on the right track with the string gauge difference you noticed. If your of an adventurous nature and are having trouble finding a local technician you might try using a small ruler to measure the distance from the strings to the fretboard @ the seventh and twelfth fret on both to see how they compare. Webers come with a wrench for the original Brekke bridge and can be adjusted under full string tension. You'll need to loosen the string tension to turn the wheels of the Brekke Traditional bridge to raise or lower it.

[Tim2723]

A set of stings is a darn cheap experiment and worth the effort. Somehow I doubt that's the difference though.

[Nonprophet]

Hi Sally, I think your on the right track with the string gauge difference you noticed. If your of an adventurous nature and are having trouble finding a local technician you might try using a small ruler to measure the distance from the strings to the fretboard @ the seventh and twelfth fret on both to see how they compare. Webers come with a wrench for the original Brekke bridge and can be adjusted under full string tension. You'll need to loosen the string tension to turn the wheels of the Brekke Traditional bridge to raise or lower it.

Actually, that's not true that you have to de-tune the strings to turn the wheels on a Brekke Traditional bridge. They come with a wrench and the Weber website clearly states that you can adjust the traditional bridge while under full tension. I have both of the Brekke bridges for my Bridger A, and I adjust them both under full tension with no problems......

NP

[hank]

I've never tried to adjust the wheels under full string tension but maybe the Weber style traditional bridge is different. The literature at their site appears to recommend the same but this doesn't specifically refer to their new tradional style. I personally wouldn't recommend it. Where did you find this recommendation?

"The Loar-Style Bridge vs. the Original Brekke Bridge

By Vern Brekke

We have felt from the beginning that our new bridge would be an improvement over the bridges that we were making and using when we built Gibson and Flatiron mandolins at Gibson's Flatiron division. During that time, we noticed some drawbacks to the historical design and tried to improve upon them with our new bridge.

Most of the observations listed below were brought to our attention by mandolin players who asked if we could do something to fix them. Although some of the drawbacks of the old style bridge produce very small effects on sound and tone, our intention at Sound To Earth is to build the best possible instruments. With that general philosophy, we have tried to remove all of the areas on the bridge and saddle where tone or volume could be corrupted. The following are some of the areas that we addressed with our new design.

(1) The histoical style bridge cannot be adjusted under full string tension.

Our bridge can be adjusted under full string tension because the adjusting screws are pushing wedges horizontally into two inclined planes rather than directly up against the full tension of the strings. The mechanical advantage of the screws is greatly enhanced with this arrangement because the majority of the force from the strings is transmitted directly down into the base, only a fraction of that force is exerted sideways into the adjusting screws."

[Jeff Budz]

I find that the mechanical advantage of (small) pump pliers lets me adjust bridge height of any bridge while at full tension.

[Nonprophet]

I've never tried to adjust the wheels under full string tension but maybe the Weber style traditional bridge is different. The literature at their site appears to recommend the same but this doesn't specifically refer to their new tradional style. I personally wouldn't recommend it. Where did you find this recommendation?

You can read about it here: http://www.soundtoearth.com/products.php?prod=17

"We believe that this bridge has serveral major improvements over other traditional bridges:

* Because a brass bar embedded in the bottom of the saddle supports the entire string area of the saddle, the saddle can be made much smaller than the common old, historical-style saddle.
* The bar also insures that the saddle will not bow, sag or break in the middle over time.
* The design also eliminates the screw holes in each end of the saddle that were a part of the old-style.
* When adjusting the thumbwheels all pressure is directed down against the bridge base instead of up against the saddle as in the older designs. This increased surface contact from thumbwheel to base give our instruments a truer tome and more volume.
* We believe these features give the bridge a more elegant appearance and better mid-frequency functionality.
* To make the bridge easier to use, the top half of each thumbwheel has been machined to accept a 5/16 wrench. The bridge will be supplied with a small 5/16 wrench.
* This bridge may be adjusted under full string tension."


NP

[hank]

Thanks for the info NP. I stand corrected. Those machined thumbwheels giving you something to solidly turn is pretty slick. Jeff do the pump pliers do any damage to the knurling or plating on the thumbwheels when you adjust a Gibson or Cumberland bridge under full string tension?

[Aisha]

Hello Aisha! Forgive me for making a confusing statement. I was speaking metaphorically and by example. I meant that we sometimes feel strange if we find what some may consider of lesser importance to be more satisfactory. Sadly, I know nothing of wine and even less about mandolins!

:)) - sorry, talk to me about wine and I'll take you seriously ;). I'll keep your metaphore in mind and try not to get too interested in that Black Ice Weber I saw in a thread here and on their website to avoid the risk of getting a MAS ;)! I find that Black Ice so beautiful!

[Tim2723]

I don't blame you. That is a work of art.

[Charlieshafer]

Getting back to wine...er... mandolins I'm wondering if there's more to the "feel" thing than just string gauges and action. Lighter strings on the Weber might work well, but then it's quieter. Sometimes it's just the over-all balance of the instrument; weight, weight distribution, along with nut width and neck profile. As everyone here has said, there's no wrong answer as long as it's a Grand Cru Bordeaux. Wait, sorry, off track again. I meant as long as you're drinking a Grand Cru Bordeaux, especially lots of it, while you're playing. I've found in my experience that getting two different makes of mandolins to play the same can be impossible, or close to it. Sometimes an orange is an orange and an apple is an apple, even with the same number of strings.

[JeffD]

I think many have missed the OP's dilema. Its the conflict of goals. In this case the one that sounds better isn't the one that feels better. This can happen.

My experience is that a major contribution to the "feel" is the neck shape. At least for me. Others its neck width perhaps.

Sound isn't everything, playability is important. Its frustrating when the two goals compete.