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Scotti Adams
Mar-30-2011, 7:02am
Willie...being the die hard Bluegrass man you are..nothing wrong with that because Im not far behind you....what do you think of this? Doyle using drums now. I think it sounds good...not over the top. Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYcIVeoJ4m0&feature=player_embedded

mandopete
Mar-30-2011, 9:23am
Yeah buddy, that's a good one!

John Hill
Mar-30-2011, 10:05am
I dunno...the headstock on that electric bass looks a little suspicious...

Mandolin Mick
Mar-30-2011, 10:10am
Drums and a 5 string electric bass???

At least the drummer is using brushes ...

JeffD
Mar-30-2011, 11:07am
Really nice, but I find the drum to be extraneous. Not irritating, but not adding anything.

catmandu2
Mar-30-2011, 11:24am
The drum may have been a choice for efficacy--not that the music ordinarily needs it, but in such an acoustically nasty, cacophonic environment as that, that drum can help to define the rhythm with all that noise bouncing around

Brent Hutto
Mar-30-2011, 11:27am
I can't get past that clip's "acoustically nasty, cacophonic environment" to know whether I like the music or not. Life's too short to listen to sounds that hurt your ears. Being processed through YouTube probably didn't help any.

Mike Snyder
Mar-30-2011, 11:30am
On the button, Jeff. Why? He's got a mandolin, a fiddle, and a banjo to alternate chops. What is the drum for?

catmandu2
Mar-30-2011, 11:33am
On the button, Jeff. Why? He's got a mandolin, a fiddle, and a banjo to alternate chops. What is the drum for?

For me, it was the only thing that sounded focused in that "acoustically nasty cacophonic environment."

If you're playing in a mall or some other such where ambient noise makes it difficult to hear even bluegrass rhythm...may call for desperate measures. My guess is that Doyle wouldn't be using a drum at all if it were in a more sonically conducive place. I'm sure it's only there to help reinforce the rhythm, so that it can be heard by the mall-goers...

Willie Poole
Mar-30-2011, 11:49am
Some years ago I hung aound with Cliff Waldron a bit and when he played at a certain place in Va. he used a drum, WHY? because the owner of the place wanted them and Cliff wanted to keep the gig...I know some things on here that I say get misunderstood or maybe I don`t phrase them correctly, I don`t mind a drum, I have played jams using them a few times, not paid gigs though that were listed as my band, anyway it`s just that I don`t see where they are needed in bluegrass just like Mike posted, the mandolin chop does the same thing...I am not one to talk out against Doyle, I`m sure he had a reason for using them/it....Jimmy Martin used a drum on some recordings, he said to make sure the timing stayed good...I have played on stages where country bands also were set up to play later and I could hear the drums rattling when we hit certain notes, I guess it was the little wires that are on the bottom of the snare drums, and it drove me crazy, just that "whishy whishy" sound....

Anyway Scottie, Thanks for sending this out to me, I guess I could take it as a slur but won`t because I am such a good natured person..Lol...I also think I know how you really feel about having drums in a "Bluegrass" band...BUT, I could be wrong...

Willie

GVD
Mar-30-2011, 11:56am
... My guess is that Doyle wouldn't be using a drum at all if it were in a more sonically conducive place. I'm sure it's only there to help reinforce the rhythm, so that it can be heard by the mall-goers...

Your guess would be wrong. I don't know where you all have been but Doyle has been using a drummer at pretty much all of his shows this year.

If the drums don't turn you off the ugly arse bass or shirt and tie combo's surely will.

catmandu2
Mar-30-2011, 12:06pm
Well, as a drummer myself, I can tell you that that is not one very exciting gig! But hey, if people want to use drums for this stuff, it helps keep me employed... :)

I could be wrong again, but this to me makes it sound a little more "countrified"... and proably built for the masses like "Oh Bother Where Art..," etc. There's money to be made from larger audiences, and drums and electric bass are one entree into that larger venue.

Willie Poole
Mar-30-2011, 2:13pm
I tried adding a fiddle and a dobro to my band to attract larger crowds and all it did was cut down on how much each of us made for a gig so now we are back to four pieces, I do plan on calling on them when recording though for a more complete sound....

Willie

catmandu2
Mar-30-2011, 2:39pm
Willie, BG drums bore the #### out of me, but if ever you or your kin wanted or needed me to fill out your sound for a mall gig, I would be honored, sir.

I would even wear a tie (but not an ugly one! ;) ).

michaelpthompson
Mar-30-2011, 4:04pm
I'm no bluegrass purist, but I do find that drum distracting and "countrified" in a BG band.

catmandu2
Mar-30-2011, 4:11pm
Drums are very handy if you're fixin to have a dance. And if you're going to get down like a Jerry Douglas show.

But for BG? meh...not for me

I wonder how much the successes of those trad players who play the jam festival circuit (trad music + drums, jams, etc.) influence these efforts? Maybe someone'll ask Doyle this? I'd guess that these successes don't go entirely unnoticed (but I've already guessed wrong once.. :( ).

Timbofood
Mar-30-2011, 6:31pm
Now, now, think back to some of the old Country Gentlemen recordings and relax. Not my particular cup of tea either though. Drums come and go, as for me they can keep on "going."

allenhopkins
Mar-30-2011, 8:26pm
Flatt & Scruggs had drums on some of their albums. Probably the record company's idea. Mostly brushes, mixed 'way down. Of course, after Curly Sechler left, they didn't have anyone "chopping" mandolin.

The "sound quality" of that YouTube clip, is another major argument against audience members with video cameras making and posting videos. More lousy-sounding music on YouTube than anywhere -- the price you pay, I guess, for so many "live" recordings. A trade-off: you get songs you can't find anywhere else, and you get unfocused, bad-sounding, unedited "music videos."

ralph johansson
Mar-31-2011, 2:46am
On the button, Jeff. Why? He's got a mandolin, a fiddle, and a banjo to alternate chops. What is the drum for?




Something else, then. And there's much more to rhythm playing in Bluegrass, especially on mandolin, than just chopping on the off-beat. As long as people listen to one another. Stop the chop!

Ivan Kelsall
Mar-31-2011, 3:01am
Drums,Electric Bass Guitar - no thanks !!. I don't think that drums have any place in Bluegrass music at all. I don't really mind an Elec.Bass Guitar,but an Elec.upright Bass looks far better. At least it's a nod in the right direction. Mostly Doyle's a really smart dresser,but those 'ornamental' jackets of his just don't do it for me at all,
Ivan

AlanN
Mar-31-2011, 6:27am
JD Crowe has used drums and other things, pedal steel, on his records down through the years. I think the seminal Rou 044 has some on a couple of the tracks, maybe Nashville Blues. This was discussed in Still Inside. Some of JD's music is within the realm of 'countrified' grass. Some like it, some don't. But I guarantee it helped him sell more records. And that great record Rou 044 would not be the same without 'that sound'.

catmandu2
Mar-31-2011, 7:06am
That's interesting Alan. And I'm thinkiing that, in addition to the obvious business advantages to bringing in more sound--it seems like utilization of other instruments and even electric ones may be even an aesthetic choice. I'm just thinking what it would be like to play the same string-band music for decades...I think I might be compelled to try something different. maybe even rock out a little. Maybe add sax! ;) We play Latin rhythms and other stuff to change things up and have fun (in my string band). Yes, we play Stevie's Superstition to assuage that impulse. But still...no stinkin drum!

Willie Poole
Apr-01-2011, 12:40pm
JD once told me he did all of that because at that time they were playing a lot of colleges and those younger crowds seemed to like it more than the older folks...He was plugged in on his first set at Indian Springs that same year and wasn`t greeted too favorably, on their second set they played unplugged and got a great standing ovation....I guess a performer does what he has to do if it is his living, thats seems to be why AKUS seems to change their style so often...If I depended on it for my living I would do the same thing, I guess...Can`t say for sure....

Willie

catmandu2
Apr-01-2011, 12:53pm
Yes, I imagine it would be on the mind of a trad acoustic player observing the success of those on the "jam band"/festival circuit. The temptation would be great to conform in some respects, I would think.

JeffD
Apr-01-2011, 1:04pm
I could be wrong again, but this to me makes it sound a little more "countrified"... and proably built for the masses like "Oh Bother Where Art..," etc. There's money to be made from larger audiences, and drums and electric bass are one entree into that larger venue.

This makes the most sense to me as to an explanation.

Doesn't make it my cup of tea, but goodness knows, I wonder if a band could make more than a few hundred dollars playing music exclusively the way I liked it.

catmandu2
Apr-01-2011, 1:28pm
I wonder if a band could make more than a few hundred dollars playing music exclusively the way I liked it.

Ha...so true. An inverse proportionality:


-Playing country rock/swing in the dance clubs: $100/man. Terribly boring :sleepy:

-playing for contradances: take of the gate--usually about $40/man. Lotsa fun :)

-Avant garde/jazz in the art gallery: tip jar. Art :cool:

Mandoviol
Apr-01-2011, 1:39pm
I have played on stages where country bands also were set up to play later and I could hear the drums rattling when we hit certain notes, I guess it was the little wires that are on the bottom of the snare drums, and it drove me crazy, just that "whishy whishy" sound....

I just experienced this other day on a piano...every time I played an F (didn't really matter where, except for the very highest registers), the snares would vibrate. It's a weird phenomenon.

John Ritchhart
Apr-01-2011, 11:51pm
I'm with Nancy Reagan.

AlanN
Apr-04-2011, 4:44am
It's like ketchup on steak. Can be done, tastes ok, but if done right, it's better without it.

Willie Poole
Apr-04-2011, 8:47am
Steak? You can afford steak? I buy the ground up kind.....

albeham
Apr-05-2011, 7:59am
Drums.. I am always open to something different..But not in BG. country music is a turn off for me if there is a drum set in it or any thing electric. I am not that old, but I do remember real good country when I was a youngster , not is seems to be all southern rock.
Not a bad thing, but that's not what I am doing... There drums in some Celtic tunes..right?

AL
Please I need the education...

300win
Apr-06-2011, 12:06pm
Flatt & Scruggs had drums on some of their albums. Probably the record company's idea. Mostly brushes, mixed 'way down. Of course, after Curly Sechler left, they didn't have anyone "chopping" mandolin."

Yea, they started having drums on their recordings they did like the Bob dylan stuff etc., record execs thought it would have more appeal to the 'hippie' crowd, thus more sales, thus more $$$$$$. It's still like that today in many ways, bands will try differant things if they are already established to see if it works or not, the Osborne Brothers did it during their hay-days adding drums, so they got booked on more big time country music shows, thus more appeal, thus more $$$$$. I predict that Doyle won't keep them in his music long, I could be wrong but I believe he'll go back to what he had before. On the other hand drums do take quite a bit of work off a mandolin player as far as Bluegrass goes.

Now on Curley Sechler with Flatt & Scruggs. It is said that Lester had this to say to Curley once, " Curley you can't much pick a mandolin, but you're the best at holding one I've ever seen ". I have heard this story told many times over the years, weather it's true or not, I can't say, but it is funny in a way. Close to what I've been told before. Lots of tales in/about Bluegrass Music. One that I do know that is true because one of my uncles seen it happen, the scar that Charlie Monroe had on his face was caused by his brother Bill bashing a guitar over his head, and the argument was over.... a woman. The Monroe Brothers were playing at a local school long ago and my uncle was going behind the stage towards the restroom after their show was over and witnessed this as it happened. differant times back then, and you have to understand that both Bill and Charlie and the rest of his family were raised, plus the Scots/Irish stock they came from, plus being brothers. I'd venture to say that they got into several confrontations over the years.