View Full Version : Chris Thile and Lloyd Loar
Dave Weiss
Mar-13-2011, 1:45pm
I traveled down to Girdwood Alaska Friday night to watch the Punch Brothers in concert. What an absolutely great show! I guess I wasn't quite sure what to expect, but I wasn't disappointed.
Girdwood is about 130 miles from where I live, so I had lots of time to reflect on the show on the drive home.
Now, up until about 2 years ago, I had no idea of who Chris Thile was and had never heard of Lloyd Loar. :disbelief:, but after reading about both here on the Mandolin Cafe, I had the opportunity to see for myself what all the fuss was about. I've seen photos of Mr. Loar, very prim and proper and couldn't help but wonder what he'd have thought of seeing Mr. Thile playing that instrument the way he does... I got tickled just thinking about it.
My other thought (it was a long drive home) was of Mr. Loar standing at a table displaying his mandolins and having some good old boy in overalls, sleeveless t-shirt and a baseball cap pick one up and "chop" a few chords for him.
Ponderous, really ponderous... :mandosmiley:
dan in va
Mar-13-2011, 2:21pm
I wonder if "It notes good!" would mean much to LL, and if he would've appreciated the great picker's pickin'. Maybe a Schottische would be more to his liking.
evanreilly
Mar-13-2011, 5:55pm
I wonder if "It notes good!" would mean much to LL, and if he would've appreciated the great picker's pickin'. Maybe a Schottische would be more to his liking.
Well, if Lloyd Loar heard William Smith Monroe state "It notes good" about one of his mandolins, I am sure he would be impressed. I doubt Bill said that truthfully about many mandolins.
And Bill could also have easily have impressed the Acoustic Engineer with his rendition of "Smoky Mountain Schottische", I am sure!
And Chris Thile did give my Dudenbostel a 'thumbs up' also!!! I guess he thought that '...noted good'.
ak_vaquero
Mar-13-2011, 6:29pm
Sutton huh? My parents lived in Palmer, but they just moved over to Wasilla! I will be visiting in a few months, cant wait to be in some fresh air for a while! Anyways, Girdwood is a far piece away from Sutton, but sounds like it was worth it! Chris Thile is pretty innovative, thats for sure. What's the bluegrass scene like in Sutton, anyone to jam with?
Following that same train of thought I wonder what his reaction would have been after having a glimpse of non acoustic instruments, amplifiers and processors today since he ventured off into that in it's infancy after he left Gibson. After all we are still in awe of the best acoustic mandolins of his time but electronics and then digital processors, etc. are probably beyond belief compared to his humble attempts and anyones imagination of where it would go.
Dave Weiss
Mar-13-2011, 7:29pm
ak_vaquero, if you're going to be here in June (24-26) there's a BG festival here in Sutton at the Granite Creek campground. Check out the friends of Alaska Bluegrass on facebook for a complete listing of festivals...
allenhopkins
Mar-13-2011, 8:40pm
Following that same train of thought I wonder what his reaction would have been after having a glimpse of non acoustic instruments, amplifiers and processors today since he ventured off into that in it's infancy after he left Gibson. After all we are still in awe of the best acoustic mandolins of his time but electronics and then digital processors, etc. are probably beyond belief compared to his humble attempts and anyones imagination of where it would go.
Display of Loar's Vivi-Tone electric and acoustic instruments. (http://www.vintageinstruments.com/museum/6vivitonesfulpage.html)
Very good Allen. I hadn't seen these but mostly those made available by Rodger Siminoff and his efforts to unveil Loyd's forward thinking genius. Those rearward facing apertures with the thick rim spines are definitely way different. Any idea about their tone quality?
allenhopkins
Mar-13-2011, 10:48pm
Haven't heard one myself. I know that they weren't financially successful, didn't survive the Depression. But of course, a lot of other builders didn't survive, either. Loar was definitely an experimenter, and like other experiments, the Vivi-Tone line didn't really pan out. But one could probably derive some perspective from the fact that Vivi-Tones are not well-known, sought-after instruments, like the Larson Bros. or Weissenborn guitars are now. Collectors seem to go after them, but I've never seen a musician featured with one.
Hi, Dave! I was at that show, too, right in the front row between Thile and Pikelny. It was something else. I flew up from Texas for some skiing, my first glimpse of Alaska, and three nights of the Punch Brothers. Some locals and I even got to watch the northern lights with the boys after their show on Thursday night. One of the best vacations I've had in a long time! I fell in love with the place -- the people, the scenery, the weather, the overall vibe. Hope to get up there again soon!
And yes, the Loar is pretty incredible. I've been within 5 feet of Chris's a few times, and I had the privilege of watching Mike Marshall play his up close in his class at the Grand Targhee bluegrass camp. There's something really special about watching the "masters" do their thing on such a fine instrument. Makes me want to have a little bonfire when I try to play my (very sweet, but comparatively modest) MT after seeing those guys.
[QUOTE=Dave Weiss;904340] I've seen photos of Mr. Loar, very prim and proper and couldn't help but wonder what he'd have thought of
Not trying to hijack here but I've always wondered what Bill; and now that you mention it, Lloyd, would've thought of 'Tone Guards' ??
I look forward to your conjecture.
BradKlein
Apr-01-2011, 6:25pm
I can't think of a reason either would have any particular problem with the tone guard. Why do you ask?
Elliot Luber
Apr-01-2011, 7:27pm
Loar was an acoustic engineer first and foremost (from what I've read mostly here). I bet he would be fascinated by the measurement equipment available today to let him see things that were only theory in his day -- Things like TEF analyzers, that can make a science out of what was purely an artform in terms of "tuning" rooms and instruments.
Jake's Gig
May-13-2011, 10:02pm
Can anyone explain the why or how that moved Thile from a Dude to the Loar....other than he could afford it!
Does the Dude show up for special events? Sponsorship finish?
Ed Goist
May-13-2011, 10:27pm
Can anyone explain the why or how that moved Thile from a Dude to the Loar....other than he could afford it!...snip...
"Thile's New Loar" (http://www.vintageguitar.com/3456/chris-thile/), Vintage Guitar magazine, 28 April 2010
Marty Henrickson
May-13-2011, 10:50pm
Vintage Guitar also had an article about Thile's new Loar in their January '08 issue. Oddly enough, I just re-read that article before I read Jake's Gig's post.
**Well, I just noticed it's the same article........;)
Bernie Daniel
May-14-2011, 6:56am
The quote from Thile near the end of the article may be interesting to some I expect:
"...Steve [Gilchrist] is going to replace the bridge top and put on a bone nut. I’m not a big fan of pearl nuts. He’ll set up the mandolin optimally and I’m going to see if I can get used to the things that are unlike Dude #5, such as the un-scalloped fretboard extension. If I can’t get used to the fretboard as is, I’ll have no qualms about scalloping the extension if I love the instrument and I need to do that for optimum playability.”
Well its his mandolin now..........:)
Murphy Slaw
May-14-2011, 8:08am
Well its his mandolin now..........:)
Tweak 'em till ya like 'em.......
Yep....
dcoventry
May-14-2011, 8:25am
Why send such a precious piece of musical history all the way to Gilchrist in Australia for work? I believe there are some good folks more local than that! It seems like a scary risk of sorts. I bet it was packed with extra peanuts by UPS!:grin:
woodwizard
May-14-2011, 8:39am
If I can’t get used to the fretboard as is, I’ll have no qualms about scalloping the extension if I love the instrument and I need to do that for optimum playability.”
Well its his mandolin now..........
... If it was me I would not scallop the original fretboard but would instead have it removed and a new board put on so as to save the original as is. But that's just me.
I watched a show the other night about the history of the electric guitar on the Smithsonian channel (I think it was called Electrified) and there was a short segment on Loar featured. Apparently he designed some pretty far-out stuff; they showed a harp-guitar looking thing that never really saw the light of day and talked a bit about his trying new things, but they said nothing about his designing mandolins (I suppose the nature of the show as why). Seemed like an interesting fellow.
Larry S Sherman
May-14-2011, 9:40am
... If it was me I would not scallop the original fretboard but would instead have it removed and a new board put on so as to save the original as is. But that's just me.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what Chris did.
"Thile's New Loar" (http://www.vintageguitar.com/3456/chris-thile/), Vintage Guitar magazine, 28 April 2010
Ed, thanks for posting this. I enjoyed that read. I like what Thile says about playing the instruments everyday and how they go to sleep otherwise. I've noticed with my Eastman (certainly not on par with a Dude or a Loar) that it also goes to sleep -- deep sleep -- when it sits for any given period of time. It actually sounds pretty horrible to my ear till it's "up" again.
Ed Goist
May-14-2011, 10:54am
Hi Caleb; no problem.
I have found that if I don't play my mandolin for a few days, my (already meager) playing skills fall asleep.
Seriously though, one must wonder how much of any variation in the tone can be explained by subtle differences in the player as opposed to with the instrument after the time apart.
I'm not saying Thile is wrong, I'm just saying that this is an interesting alternate explanation for the phenomenon (which I have also experienced).
Oh, and Two hours a day? Well, listen to him, yea...Two hours a day.
Caleb
May-14-2011, 11:24am
I'm lucky to fit in two hours a month!
mandolino maximus
May-14-2011, 1:15pm
Thile is like Tiger Woods (and most child prodigies like Ricky Skaggs) that really took to the things in early, early devolopment and never let up. This also helps explain why my specialty is eating.
A night of sitting a few feet from superbly skilled musicians playing superb instruments and Northern Lites in the woods and mountains of Alaska. That's about as sweet as it can possibly get - if you happen to be into "pristine." Not that we all don't have the opportunity to let ourselves be amazed whether we live in New York or Pagosa Springs.
I followed a link provided on a prior thread to a website on Lloyd Loar. After Gibson, he taught music in Evanston and is noted for telling his students that all lute like instruments (guitar, mandolin included) were extremely limited in tonal capacity. Just guessing, but he would have liked Caterina Lichtenberg's playing and might have been pretty impressed by some of our tone masters. But I think he lived long enough to know of Bill Monroe as a recording success and that Dave Apollon also played a Loar. I've actually driven a propane delivery truck all around Cropley, IL where Loar was born. It's really a corn field.
Can anyone explain the why or how that moved Thile from a Dude to the Loar....other than he could afford it!
Does the Dude show up for special events? Sponsorship finish?
I guess I don't understand the question.
Why send such a precious piece of musical history all the way to Gilchrist in Australia for work? I believe there are some good folks more local than that! It seems like a scary risk of sorts. I bet it was packed with extra peanuts by UPS!:grin:
Unless he just flew down there himself, with the mandolin as carry on.
Thile is like Tiger Woods (and most child prodigies like Ricky Skaggs) that really took to the things in early, early devolopment and never let up. This also helps explain why my specialty is eating..
:)) Me too!
Paul Kotapish
May-14-2011, 2:09pm
I don't know the specifics of how--or even if--Chris got his Loar to Steve Gilchrist for the setup work, but Steve has been in the habit of spending quite a bit of time rambling about the States and hanging out in Nashville from time to time, so perhaps the work was done locally during one of those jaunts.
My grandmother was a life-long Kalamazoo girl, and she remembered Lloyd Loar from his role in the classical-music world there in the '20s. She had no idea that he had anything to do with Gibson or mandolins, but she recalled that he was well known in local society.
My grandfather--another life-long Kalamazoo guy--died when I was a baby, but he played mandolin, apparently. I searched high and low, but nobody recalls whatever became of his old mandolin. I can only imagine . . .
Rob Fowler
May-14-2011, 3:23pm
Why send such a precious piece of musical history all the way to Gilchrist in Australia for work? I believe there are some good folks more local than that! It seems like a scary risk of sorts. I bet it was packed with extra peanuts by UPS!:grin:
I believe Thile sent it to Gilchrist because he's worked on more Loars than anybody else. Could be wrong. Also, Chris did have Gilchrist remove the original fretboard and put a radiused and scooped board on there.
Glassweb
May-14-2011, 3:44pm
I believe Thile sent it to Gilchrist because he's worked on more Loars than anybody else. Could be wrong. Also, Chris did have Gilchrist remove the original fretboard and put a radiused and scooped board on there.
I believe you're right on all counts Rob. John Reischman's Feb. 18th had, essentially, the same treatment as Chris'...
Bernie Daniel
May-15-2011, 8:42am
I believe Thile sent it to Gilchrist because he's worked on more Loars than anybody else. Could be wrong. Also, Chris did have Gilchrist remove the original fretboard and put a radiused and scooped board on there.
Smart move. I'm sure he wants to protect his $200K investment as much as anyone else -- and his will probably be worth more as well just because he was the owner.
I find it interesting how some great players do not find the frets on the extension a problem at all and others have to have them scooped.
Can anyone explain the why or how that moved Thile from a Dude to the Loar....other than he could afford it!
Does the Dude show up for special events? Sponsorship finish?
Neeed it be anything more complicated than he wanted both and could afford it?
Bernie Daniel
May-15-2011, 1:56pm
Can anyone explain the why or how that moved Thile from a Dude to the Loar....other than he could afford it!
Does the Dude show up for special events? Sponsorship finish?
Probably only one person could. That would be Chris Thile.
I think there was comment on some other string that he takes his Dudenbostle mandolin when there might be a venue with less security?
I believe Thile sent it to Gilchrist because he's worked on more Loars than anybody else. Could be wrong. Also, Chris did have Gilchrist remove the original fretboard and put a radiused and scooped board on there.
FWIW Bob Jones of Brooklyn has done work on Thile's Loar as well.