Gibson mandolin discussion with David Harvey - AND a 34 Fern

[davepicks5]

On Saturday at Itchn to Pick in Louisville ....had a chance to listen to Dave Harvey play 90446 a 34 Fern and also have Dave speak to the present state of mandolin production at Gibson. He is always a wealth of knowledge and his passion for the instrument and Gibson always shows through.....Hope all of you enjoy. The loud voice at the beginning does go away. David

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx_aROORpoA

If I have placed this topic in the wrong slot, please let me know.....

[MikeEdgerton]

There's probably more real information here than we've seen in a few years out of Gibson. Thanks for posting this.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

What is that gorgeous electric Gibson behind him?

[Bernie Daniel]

Yes thanks that was really interesting. They have 6 -12 mandolins on the floor at anyone time. If you assume that, on average, it takes 4 work weeks (5 days per week) to complete one mandolin (wood to strung), and that the factory averages 44 weeks of work (i.e., periods or full shop staffing -- considering vacations and holidays etc) -- making approximately 11 build cycles per year. Therefore, we could ball park Gibson mandolin production at 70 - 135 units per year?

[Ivan Kelsall]

Forget the actual Mandolin - what a great player David Harvey is !!!. Everytime is watch him play,it's a sheer delight. Every now & again we get a post regarding having 'stubby fingers' - well it's not stopped Mr Harvey.The Mandolin was ok too,
Ivan

[Gary Hedrick]

Interesting how we all find something different and interesting in this post.....David's playing.....the production numbers of Gibson....the electric mandolin.etc etc
What I find interesting is that there sits a 34 F5 with what is Loar wood in it.....not the plain jane wood that you see in a lot (the lot is a small number made) of them.....that looks like Loar wood to me and apparently so it does to David along with his comment of about the craftsmanship.....Gibson in the Depression put out a really interesing mix of instruments......floor sweepings......everything to make the max dollar for the min cost, to survive....just to survive.

[Gary Hedrick]

I'd like to hear the big three weigh in on this one......Messers Wolfe, Isenhour and Waltham. This could get interesting reading their wealth of knowledge about the period

[Bernie Daniel]

Interesting how we all find something different and interesting in this post.....David's playing.....the production numbers of Gibson....the electric mandolin.etc etc
What I find interesting is that there sits a 34 F5 with what is Loar wood in it.....not the plain jane wood that you see in a lot (the lot is a small number made) of them.....that looks like Loar wood to me and apparently so it does to David along with his comment of about the craftsmanship.....Gibson in the Depression put out a really interesing mix of instruments......floor sweepings......everything to make the max dollar for the min cost, to survive....just to survive.

Yes I must say I might have at least acknowledged the fantastic playing ability of Dave Harvey -- though it was not new to me. I saw him in concert a couple of times once when with the Clair Lynch band and once with his group Wild and Blue. He is as good as they come --IMO.

Also the mandolin WAS pretty wonderful -- I've never heard the term "Loar wood" before -- wonder how one could tell? Wouldn't Gibson have had access the the same wood suppliers after Lloyd Loar as before?

But guess the main point is that the same craftsmen that made the first F-5's may have produced more than could be sold. The thought that the mandolin sat around for 10 - 12 years in the factory inventory is pretty interesting.

[Gary Hedrick]

I would imagine that David is not new to you in that he is originally a "home boy" to your area. I remember seeing him with Larry Sparks at Green Acres in the early 80's. He was playing his F5M and doubling on fiddle. I was amazed at how fast he could play Katie Hill and switch back and forth on fiddle and mandolin and not miss a beat. Quite a player with a deep bluegrass history with his father being a top notch picker also.

What I mean by "Loar Wood" is that many Loars have a really distinctive pattern in the back and sides and when sunbursted it really takes on an almost magical glow about it.

[AlanN]

Wild & Blue was the bomb. If you can find their very first recording on the Vetco label called Too Blue To Cry, you will hear some very great playing by David on mando, fiddle and guitar. They re-do the instrumental Cruisin' Timber, which was first recorded on Sparks' Silver Reflections (with David on mandolin). The W&B version has this terrific intro and outro that are just perfect. The tunes on TBTC are a good mix of countrified grass and swing, and the recording is filled with little flurries of mando greatness. Features John Wheat on 5-string, along with Jan and Jill on vocals, guitar, bass.

[Big Joe]

David is an incredible mandolin player, and in my opinion, the most well rounded player of all genre's I've had the opportunity to hear. He has great technique and has some incredible players from his dad to Jethro himself to learn from. However, all the teaching in the world can only take one so far. The rest is determination and talent. David is certainly not short on either of those. I always love to hear him play, especially some of the non traditional bluegrass stuff and some of the old Jethro type stuff and swing. I can hear a lot of great bluegrass picking, but some of the other genre's he is equally incredible with and I really enjoy it!

I have a somewhat humorous Dave Harvey story that took place about 18 years ago. David had just moved to Nashville and was working with us at Charlie's shop. He lived just a block away from us. He and his wonderful wife came over for supper one evening and we were going to eat and then pick. My youngest son, CD, had just really begun his playing venture. He could play pretty well for his age and the amount of time he had played, but was certainly not on David's level. As we picked around the circle it became his turn to take a break. He just went at it like a madman. He played things he had never played before, and did a really great job for his knowledge and skill level at that time. When he finished, David complimented him on how well he did and how surprised he was at his skill and how he was not the least bit nervous about his playing in front of David.

CD smiled, and only like a 13 year old boy can do, looked at David and said, "I've been waiting to take you on for a long time!". I thought David would just die laughing. It was a great moment with a good friend and my son. We laughed until we had tears running down our face. CD even realized how absurd it sounded and laughed with us.

CD is not 31 and is a great guitar and mandolin player in his own right. His exposure to David over the years and being around him and other great mandolin and guitar players helped him hone his talents as well. Thank you David for that and many other memorable moments!

[Willie Poole]

I have met a lot of great bluegrass players in my time that come from or have played in bands from this area where I live, DC, northern Va and suburban Md. but I still envy a lot of you that live or work in and around Nashville and get to meet and pick with so many of the greats...I have never met Dave Harvey but he sounds like the kind of fellow that I could really spend a lot of time around and learn a lot from, those people are out there but they seem to be getting harder to find in this day and age...We are living at a much faster pace then say 25 years ago and people seem to be not as inclined to share knowledge with us laymen....Maybe I just have to get out more but family comes first...Great post and thanks for sharing it.....

[John Kinn]

Great post! That's the second 34 Fern I've seen on You Tube the last couple of weeks, and they both sound great. How many were actually made that year, and how many are still left? Impossible question, maybe.

[f5loar]

Before I can comment on these '34 Ferns I would need more information. What is the FON on the one Harvey is playing?. A 90446 number is closer to being a 1931 then a 1934. Same goes for the other one youtube. He calls it a '34 but gives no serial no.
The years from '25 to '34 are tricky to date. After '35 it gets a bit easier but any of these years you need to look at the FON too along with the serial no. The FON can help put it with other known batches.

[pickloser]

He is always a wealth of knowledge and his passion for the instrument and Gibson always shows through. So true! He'll be back at Kaufman mandolin camp this June. His classes are informative and helpful, and he's as nice a fellow as you could hope to meet. But I most eagerly anticipate the feeling of stunned delight I get from his playing.

Gibson is lucky to have him.

[Tom Glen]

What is that gorgeous electric Gibson behind him?

I believe the electric mandolin is a recent Gibson model F5G-EM. This one appears to be a four string model; however, The Mandolin Store has sold one or two eight string models. Tom

[mandolirius]

Wild & Blue was the bomb. If you can find their very first recording on the Vetco label called Too Blue To Cry, you will hear some very great playing by David on mando, fiddle and guitar. They re-do the instrumental Cruisin' Timber, which was first recorded on Sparks' Silver Reflections (with David on mandolin). The W&B version has this terrific intro and outro that are just perfect. The tunes on TBTC are a good mix of countrified grass and swing, and the recording is filled with little flurries of mando greatness. Features John Wheat on 5-string, along with Jan and Jill on vocals, guitar, bass.

Yep, "Too Blue To Cry". I'm sitting here looking at it right now. Everything Alan said, especially "Cruisin' Timber", a nice minor key tune with interesting chords in the B part that would be a good one to pull out at a jam. Something a bit different but a pretty easy melody to get on to. Now all I have to do is learn to play it like Dave. :grin:

I spend some time with him up at the BC Bluegrass Workshop, in the early years before it moved to Sorrento. I think W & B were there three years in a row as instructors. I had a radio show, so I actually had some of these really obscure (around here) records like TBTC on Vetco. I remember he and Jan were sitting in the front row at the student concert and, just before our group started, I looked around the stage and said "boys, we've got to be at our best tonight. I think there's some talent scouts from Vetco records in the crowd." Just like Joe described, Dave lost it and turned into a puddle. :))

[davepicks5]

Before I can comment on these '34 Ferns I would need more information. What is the FON on the one Harvey is playing?. A 90446 number is closer to being a 1931 then a 1934. Same goes for the other one youtube. He calls it a '34 but gives no serial no.
The years from '25 to '34 are tricky to date. After '35 it gets a bit easier but any of these years you need to look at the FON too along with the serial no. The FON can help put it with other known batches.

On October 2, 1936 this mandolin was shipped by Gibson to Jenkins Music in Tulsa Oklahoma.....cost of shipping was $4.40 ........There does not appear to be a FON, looking through the other F hole does not show any number.

David

[davepicks5]

I now need to apologize to everyone who has watched the video of Dave playing the Fern and presenting information about the present state of Gibson mandolins.

The video has been removed........:(

I will now go back to my world of banjos ..........at least I know Gibson is NOT building banjos. So they don't really care if they sell any banjos......


David

[adizz]

Why was the video removed?

[OlderThanWillie]

Yes, why was the video removed?

[Fstpicker]

Here's another excellent DH video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaN4Ia_sDIg

Jeff

[Ivan Kelsall]

From BernieD. - "He is as good as they come --IMO.". I'll second that one Bernie,the guy's terrific.I've seen a few YouTube clips of his playing & he's amazingly fluent & accurate in his picking,something i try to achieve in my own playing.
Big Joe - Herschel Sizemore & now David Harvey ! - do you take lodgers at your home,only for 5 or 6 years or so though,:grin:
Ivan~:>

[Clement Barrera-Ng]

Also wondered why the video is removed. I only managed to watch the beginning and was blown away by Mr. Harvey's playing. Was really looking forward to watching the rest of the interview tonight.

[Douglas McMullin]

davepicks5 last post, #19, suggests to me that someone requested he remove it.

[Glassweb]

I think Dave might want to entertain the idea of recording a new mando CD. What say ye Mr. Harvey?

[John Ritchhart]

Great video Fstpicker. I've met Dave Harvey several times at camps and in Nashville at the old location. He is generous with his time and he is willing to help with set-up and sharing instrument knowledge. At camp he brought several instruments and let everyone play any of them we liked. During that camp I played a 23 Loar and the gibson distressed model. I honestly liked the distressed model better. Your vote might have varied but in a blind test these would have been hard to tell apart. I felt the new model noted better and was louder under the same pressure. You really had to jump on the Loar to get a good tone out of it. The point is Dave is a very generous man and an unbelievably good picker.

[AlanN]

"Cruisin' Timber", a nice minor key tune with interesting chords in the B part

Mando L -

What chords do you get on the B part? I hear:

Bb for 2 bars
F for 2 bars
Gm for 2 bars
Dm for 2 bars

repeat

[Steve Ostrander]

When Dave says "You know how I feel about block inlays" does he mean he likes them or not? I didn't get his drift there.

I'm not crazy about them but I'm sure I would get used to it if I had a '34 Fern.

[AlanN]

I think his drift is...'Tis a foul wind...but I may be wrong.

[300win]

I'd like to add that Mr. Harvey was quick to reply to the e-mails I sent him regarding questions I had about my mandolins. He is not only a great picker, but a great person to deal with and a gentleman.

[Bernie Daniel]

When Dave says "You know how I feel about block inlays" does he mean he likes them or not? I didn't get his drift there.

I'm not crazy about them but I'm sure I would get used to it if I had a '34 Fern.

I think Dave means they are not his cup of tea?

I have them on my Sam Bush of course and they are the one feature I would change on the mandolin if I could have my druthers.

I used to have an 1961 Hummingbird with them also and liked them no better on the guitar.

Too gaudy for my taste -- but if you wanted a Gibson mandolin with a wide nut that neck was about there was available. But now the Jam Masters have given some options. Aren't the JM's a Dave Harvey idea as well!

The only D.H. proposed model I have not liked too much is that "mezolin" -- the small mandola. Is that still for sale?

[f5loar]

I would say he really likes them. Is he not the one that came out with the "inspired" by a '34 Fern reissue that had block inlays?
Sam like thems. Barry likes them. I like them a lot. Nothing wrong with blocks they are just different. However I'm pretty sure the one he played in that video was a '31 and not a '34. And that is what is in the archives too. It doesn't say in the shipping records if it was sent out as new or as a repair job sent back out in 1936. If you sent back to the factory for a free repair it would have to go through the dealer you bought it from. And Gibson would send it back to the dealer to give back to the customer. It's a quality thing. The dealer would know how to pack it for shipping while an individual would not.

[f5loar]

You had a first year production Hummingbird with the L5 block inlays and not the regular parallel blocks at a slant? That would be rare "bird".

[300win]

I like the block inlays, and I also have a F5 Jam-master the fifth F5 model built and the tenth in the JM series. Mr. Harvey has told me he 'remembers my mandolin as being a very good one '. To me that means alot seeing as how he lays his hands on every single mandolin that Gibson makes. Mr. Harvey sent my particular mandolin to Jackson's music store in Winston Salem, NC at their request for him to send the best JM he had at that time and that was the first one they had in their Gibson showroom. My mandolin was checked out and signed by Dave Harvey on 12th May, 2009, I purchased it from Jackson's in June of '09. I went that day with the intention of getting me a F5 mandolin. My price cap was $4500. I went in thinking maybe a F9 since I already had a A9 and liked it very much. I sat in there for a hour or so and played every mandolin they had in the display case, including besides my JM a F9, F5G, F5L, Alan Bibey model, Goldrush, A5, Doyle Lawson model, and a DMM. The JM sounded as good as any in there and actually better than some of the pricey ones that were out of my reach. I consider myself very lucky to have went in that day, as Jackson had not had it on the floor but about a week, and I know that the one I got would have been snatched up by someone else very fast if they had come in looking for ' good tone, good volume' rather than 'looks'. This mandolin was a gift from my wife, as I had always wanted a Gibson F5 but could never afford one before. I got my A9 in '07 from the same store, and it is very good also, differant in tone and loudness than the F5 but a very good mandolin. F5loar, I am bringing both of them with me when we come to visit. Although nothing no ways close to what you have as far as $, I think you might like both of them.

[CES]

Sorry I missed it...contrary to my nature, I will refrain from further comment, other than to say that I agree that Dave is a fabulous musician, and it's good to hear that he's a "good guy" as well.

[Bernie Daniel]

You had a first year production Hummingbird with the L5 block inlays and not the regular parallel blocks at a slant? That would be rare "bird".


You are correct -- I sold the Hummingbird a couple of years ago and to tell the truth I had never even noticed the difference in the inlay pattern because I never saw the two insturments side-by-side. I wish I had not even mentioned it because looking at these old pics makes me wonder why I ever sold that guitar! :crying:

[f5loar]

I've got a killer '63 Hummingbird and it's worth crying over should I loose it. But that black top 20's mandocello sure looks sweet.
You still got that rare bird?

[Bernie Daniel]

I sold the Hummingbird to a guitar picker in Chicago -- I really did not play it much much since the '70's when I played it some at coffee houses around Ohio State. I bought a J-60 in the early 1990's and that is more guitar then I will ever need.

I suppose I'm guilty of tread drift here -- but here is a pic of the K-1 mandocello -- by serial number I date it as a 1936. I am thinking it might be one of the last ones made?