1965 Gibson A w/ org case on e-bay NFI

[P.D. Kirby]

I kinda like this Mandolin, there is 16 hours left and it's up to about $1200.00. The BIN is $1500.00. Since I'm new at this MAS could someone tell me if this is a good price? I know it's subject to condition and you can rarely depend on the description given and the seller appears to not know what he is selling. I quote "two strings are broken but they are in the case" OMG!!! Anyway if this is a good price I might pull the trigger so please help me out if possible.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MANDOLIN-GIBSON-SN-36099-70-ONE-OWNER-I965-MODEL-/290538273776?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a56e3bf0


NFI

Phillip

[MikeEdgerton]

The price isn't outstanding and those weren't Gibson's best years, they weren't the worst though. If the 1500.00 BIN had been great it would have gone immediately. This is one of those things that you have to shoot from the heart if you want it, it's not screaming buy me to me at least. Now that Derrington signed Gibson A5L in the classifieds is killing me.

[f5loar]

A quick look by anyone with just a little Gibson history knowledge, which the seller should have done, can tell from the photos and the FON given that this A40N model was made in 1948 not 1965. That is a big difference in both value and quality of mandolin you are getting. The spread of $1200 to $1500 is what a vintage dealer would price it at in this condition. It's pretty clean and has the original hardshell case which in itself is worth a few hundred. It does not have the original rosewood bridge however it still retains it's original open back Kluson tuners.
So at $1200 you would basically be paying full price and not a steal of a deal. As far as playability and sound, this is the exact model Ricky Skaggs cut his teeth on. You can see him picking it on youtube.com with Flatt & Scruggs when he was about 6 years old.

[MikeEdgerton]

The serial number puts it right in the middle of the 60's, the case looks to be a 60's case and the logo looks to be a later version of the logo. The shrinking buttons put it 40's to 60's. It is an A 40 with the laminated back and cross brace. Are you sure about that date?

My mistake on the headstock logo, the dot is attached. It could be earlier. The case logo however is a later logo, the dot is floating. If the mandolin is that old the case isn't original.

[f5loar]

Mike, The tailpiece alone puts this in the 50's. The 50's did not have serial nos. only the FON. A FON between 1100 and 3700 would be 1948. This one is 3609-70 which is the 70th one made of the 3609 batch. It is not 360970 which would be on an orange oval label and stamped on the back of the neck also putting it in 1965. The photo shows no number on the back of the neck nor an orange label. When you knock out those two known facts then you look at where else it fits with catalog specs more so then any numbers stamped on it. The case is correct interior color for late 40's to early 50's. The mid 60's case had orange interior. It is an A40N for Natural top finish. The A40 was a sunburst tobbaco finish.
The open back klusons only used the first few years and then they went to closed back Klusons. It has the back brace which also puts this in the late 40's to early 50's. The back brace was long gone by the 60's. That Gibson logo on the headstock and metal tag first was used in 1946 and found on the hard shell cases on the outside and on the string pocket top on the cheap chipboard cases. I realize you have been at this a lot longer then me and know way more then me but I know what I am saying is right for this mandolin. I own several examples of the late 40's/early 50's A40s and A50s and I also was buying them new in the mid 60's when I worked for a Gibson dealer. The fact the seller knows nothing doesn't mean we can't figure this one out by the photos and FON.

[P.D. Kirby]

Thanks guy's, I am so glad that I found this place, there is collectively more Mandolin knowledge here at the Cafe than anyone could ever hope for and a person would be very hard pressed to find a nicer group of folks that are more than willing to share that knowledge and help keep a newbie like myself from doing something I might regret.

I think I'll keep my credit card in my wallet on this one.

Thanks Again Guy's
Phillip

[Glassweb]

I gotta go with F5LOAR on this one... He knows Gibsons like the back of his hand... maybe better!

[mrmando]

Yeah, it's hard to see the backs of your hands when you're playing the mandolin.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, I'll give it to you on the mandolin, but the case logo. Everything I'm reading says that case logo is later than the 40's. Is it possible the case isn't original or was that floating dot used earlier?

[John Rosett]

There's always this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-A-40-model-Mandolin_W0QQitemZ180632809076QQcategoryZ10179QQcm dZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DS IC%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BF ICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D10%26pmod%3D290538273776%26ps% 3D63%26clkid%3D7551193881982442587

[f5loar]

The case tag logo is not related to the headstock logos. The dot styles on the tags mean nothing. They are all the same. I've only seen one metal tag used on Gibson cases from 1948 to 1968. I do know the mid 60's went to the orange plush interior. This case does not have that. It is the green felt like material not plush. It would be impossible to date any mandolin by it's case. Cases do get changed out and many times people will hold onto a clean hard shell vintage case to sell it separate to get more money. I know I would. I do believe this is the original case for this mandolin because everything else except the bridge is original. I have A40's from the late 40's up to the mid 50's with the same case and case tag logo. There is no variation on those years. I don't know what source you are using for case tag history but I do know many of the vintage guides are full of mistakes. I have personally contacted Gruhn for corrections in his vintage guides. While it's not a fact based history we are guessing at many things we do know for fact. Gibson as we know would build custom instruments and oddities do show up for most any year. I've not seen a custom made A40 or A40N. But I've not seen everyone they made either. Everyone I've seen is catalog spec. for year made. I have seen custom made A50's, A5, F12 and F5s.

[MikeEdgerton]

OK, cool. Thanks for the info.

[evanreilly]

F5loar has earned the deserved reputation of being the man behind a lot of the information in the F5 Journals. His extensive catalog of Gibson mandolins & mandolin family instruments extends well past the Loar era. He can sniff an F or round hole blindfolded and tell the model and year with uncanny ability!!! And, seriously, he probably has owned one or more of every flavor in the Gibson mandolin candy store!!!
I have consulted with him about various Gibson mandolins over the course of more than 20 years.
Not only is he extremely knowledgeable about them, he plays them well as well. He and I have many videos on Youtube together and he isn't a slouch on the instrument, either in theory or practice.

[f5loar]

Well Evan thanks for your belief and support in my limited knowledge about Gibson mandolins. I've been interested in them since I started picking in 1962. I see this '48 A40N has come up again and this time with a BIN at $999 and he is asking for offers.
If anyone has interest in this really fine example of an early A40 model I would offer him $800 and that would be a good buy especially with the really clean hardshell case included and free shipping. I have no interest in this as I have plenty of them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MANDOLIN-GIBSON-SN-36099-70-ONE-OWNER-I965-MODEL-/300533743136?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f934fe20

[P.D. Kirby]

I am in contact with the seller but not sure if I will make an offer or not. I have permission to buy one more but their seems to be so many tempting ones coming available everyday that I want to choose carefully. BTW thanks f5loar I was wondering what a good price for this would be and now I know. Theirs also a 1957 on epay as well that has my attention but I didn't bookmark the page. If you happen to look at it let me know what you would think a good price would be.

Thanks
Phillip

[Wanderer]

Sorry Phillip, I snagged this one last night. I have to thank f5loar for his insights and knowledge in relation to this Mandolin. By the way, I advised the Vendor of f5loar's opinion that this was a '48 not a '65 before we consumated the deal. It made no difference to them and did not affect the price I offered and they thanked me for being honest. I can't wait to get it.

[P.D. Kirby]

Glad to hear it, that Mandolin has caused me to not be able to stay focused on my daily routine since it was listed the first time. From what one could tell from the pictures It looks like you got a good one. We here at the Cafe are very fortunate to have members of the caliber of f5loar to help guide us. Good Luck with your new acquisition and no need to apologize there are so many to choose from here lately it is certainly a buyers market. I'm sure before it's over I will find the one I can't carry on with out and then all will be well until my MAS flairs up again.
Here's the 57 that has been mocking me lately as well...NFI

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Vintage-1957-A40-Mandolin-W-Original-Case-/220749080037?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365aba5e5

[f5loar]

Now this seller with the '57 knows how to research and write the correct description. Even notes not right tuners. Should have been the closed back single line Kulsons with white buttons. This would be a good buy at around $800 too. Not as clean as the other one but very nice.

[P.D. Kirby]

Thank you Sir, your knowledge in this arena is astonishing to say the least. I made an offer via e-mail if it doesn't sell. The seller would seem to be hung up on a price that is somewhat north of your recommendation. I am a very patient person and that usually serves me well in matters like this. Being a Guitar player for 40 or so years I have always done well in that arena but alas when it comes to these little jewels I am completely out of my element. Two things that are currently in my favor are #1 the market for old Gibson A models is very ripe for now #2 Folks like yourself here at the Cafe that are willing to help us less knowledgeable MAS suffers not get burned by offering advice that one would not find anywhere else.

The biggest draw for me in this case is the year 1957 which is the year I was born so I will remain calm :cool: and see what happens. Thanks again f5loar you are 1 in a million.

Phillip

[Wanderer]

Phillip, did you get your birthyear Mando?

[P.D. Kirby]

No didn't want to go that high on that one. At the end there was a bidding war between two folks that just had to have it. They ran the price up 300 over the reserve. I have learned if somebody wants to pay way more than the seller even wants, let them have it. I have my eye on a 57 that is in private hands and it's a family heirloom that I will most likely get for less than f5loar said that one was worth. Good thing is I'm the only one who even knows it's for sale and they are family friends. The Mandolin is in near perfect condition with the original HSC and I put a set of 73s on it for the guy and played it for a couple of hours. It's sitting in my music room as we speak and we are working out a deal. I think there's a 100% chance I'll keep it and the seller wants me to have it. Life is good...