How is Gibson doing?

[red7flag]

While I live near Nashville, I have heard almost nothing about Gibson since the flood. I was wondering how the productions of mandolins is doing now? Thanks in advance.

[MikeEdgerton]

Last weeks Cafe Home Page was pointing out that shipments of mandolins had started arriving at The Mandolin Store and First Quality Music. I'd say they are back in production.

Take a look through these (http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/frontpage.html) headlines.

[Big Joe]

I think they are beginning to see mandolins come through, but nothing on banjos yet. I discovered some of the brands they had are not longer trademarked by Gibson, but by another entity. I believe it is the Bank of America. The brands the bank owns is Flatiron, Dobro, and Hound Dog. I have no idea why or what the arrangement is. I was searching the US Trademark office for something else and just happened to come across this. What it means I have NO idea but just thought it was interesting.

[yankees1]

Where has Gibson located their new shop?

[Big Joe]

It is in the Gibson Custom Shop in Nashville. They build the Les Pauls and other electric and arch tops there. Lots of cool equipment there. Great guys. How will the mandolins be? Only time will tell.

[GTison]

Wouldn't it be odd if Weber bought the Flatiron name from the bank?
That is weird about those brand names. ...

[yankees1]

It is in the Gibson Custom Shop in Nashville. They build the Les Pauls and other electric and arch tops there. Lots of cool equipment there. Great guys. How will the mandolins be? Only time will tell.

Joe, does Gibson give any tours through their operation?

[Tony Sz]

I'm wondering when we'll see a Gibson Fern F-5. I see Janet Davis has a Gibson F-5G at an asking price of over 6 G's! If that's what the G's are going for, well......????

[MikeEdgerton]

That F5G is a custom model with gold trim and all. Scroll farther down the page, the regular F5G is close to the same price it's been for years.

[f5loar]

When Banks own something they are not in the business to manage it's usually because of foreclosure. Not saying that's what happened to those certain trademark names from Gibson but I bet it's got something to do with downsizing and the current economy and a business decission to keep afloat. Between illegal tree lawsuits, pre flood downturn in sales , loss of dealerships, import compettion coming on stronger and then the floods destroying a lot of inventory and equipment Gibson needed to do a lot to keep afloat. I hope they are around another 100 years.

[red7flag]

I keep wanting to like Gibson and in so many ways do. Where I seem to have problems is with there upper management. A good deal of negative impact, prior to the flood, came from some of the strangest decisions that I have seen. Suing Elderly is one. The way they handled dropping the dealerships was beyond belief. I won't go into suing game manufacturing. Since I have no knowledge about the federal wood investigation, I will abstain from going there. Bottom line is that if Gibson was persieved as a nicer corporation, I would have a lot easier time supporting them. I have heard all the arguments about how cut throat the music business is. Each person and each corporation has a choice in how it does business. You can be business like and still kind.

[Big Joe]

Gibson has not given tours of the Custom Shop due to issues with safety for both the tourists and the employees on a manufacturing floor. That does not mean no one has ever gotten in there, but the stock answer the company gives is that they do not give tours. At least that was when I was there. That was the reason they did the glass walls at the Mall. You could see them work without actually getting in the way or being in a position where your safety was in question.

[Capt. E]

I know more than one dealer here in Austin who has dropped Gibson or at least rejected the idea of being a dealer. These are small shops that just don't have the money to put up the many thousands of dollars of inventory that Gibson requires, especially at the beginning.

[MikeEdgerton]

Banks also take things of value, such as real property and other valuable assets and hold them as collateral against lines of credit and loans. I'd venture a guess that those trademark names are in a state similar to that. They have value to Gibson but they aren't going to endager the enterprise if lost. Beyond that, Gibson and their methods of doing business have been discussed many times before and it's obvious that they place their products in the dealers they want to be in. The only dealer that I would believe truly rejected the idea of being a Gibson dealer would be Elderly and they had their reasons. It wasn't because they couldn't handle the Gibson floorplan requirements.

[D. Roberts]

I got to play a couple of the custom G's that were at SPBGMA and they were great!!
The sound was big and open and the fit and finish looked awesome.
I really miss being involved with the building side of Gibson mandolins but I know that all of the guys that are still building the mandolins that were there when Charlie and I were there; Dave, Brandon, Mary, James, Darron and all of the guy's at the shop are commited to building quality instruments and from what I have seen they are making it happen!!

[300win]

When Banks own something they are not in the business to manage it's usually because of foreclosure. Not saying that's what happened to those certain trademark names from Gibson but I bet it's got something to do with downsizing and the current economy and a business decission to keep afloat. Between illegal tree lawsuits, pre flood downturn in sales , loss of dealerships, import compettion coming on stronger and then the floods destroying a lot of inventory and equipment Gibson needed to do a lot to keep afloat. I hope they are around another 100 years.

On the '100 years', I'll see you, and bump it a hundred !

[lenf12]

I got to play a couple of the custom G's that were at SPBGMA and they were great!!

Hi Danny,

I certainly don't doubt your assessment of the custom new G's but I looked at the pictures Scott posted today for Janet Davis Music and from the back shot, that body scroll looks sorta funky to me. It looks to be too loose with a lot open space. I personally like a tighter scroll because (to me) it appears to take a greater level of craftsmanship to execute. (Think of vintage Gibson scrolls vs. Pac-rim scrolls of today).

68892

I'm happy to hear that Gibson is delivering stock again after the flood. I also agree that they most likely posted the trademarks as collateral for some much needed financing.

Kind regards,
Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[dcoventry]

Len,

Slightly off topic but about scrolls:

Would you rather have a tighter curl to teh scroll but not have a good finsih onit, or a more open scroll that was finished beautifully?

This, I think, is a legitimate question. If it has been covered ad nauseum, please excuse me.


d.

[trevor]

I'd rather have a tight scroll finished beautifully..

[dcoventry]

Ah Trevor, ever the voice of reason in a more and more unreasonable world.

But if you had to choose between the above mentioned choices, what say you? Hypothetically, of course.

[trevor]

I don't see why a tight scroll can't be finished beautifully... I have many examples..

[Nelson Peddycoart]

Apparently, the trademarks are collateral against a $136 Million loan from BOA.

See:
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-139257146.html

[dcoventry]

Trevor,

Ok, I say uncle as I agree.

[doc holiday]

What Trevor said.... ditto

[lenf12]

Len,

Slightly off topic but about scrolls:

Would you rather have a tighter curl to the scroll but not have a good finsih onit, or a more open scroll that was finished beautifully?

This, I think, is a legitimate question. If it has been covered ad nauseum, please excuse me.
d.

Hi D,

To answer your question (and to apologize for slightly derailing of this thread), I would prefer a tighter, perfectly proportioned scroll, even if the inner part of the curl was not perfectly finished. I appreciate how difficult (though not impossible) it is to get the inner curl smooth and with adequate finish applied. The shape and proportion are more imortant to me than there being rough spots in the inner curl.

If the luthier sacrifices the shape and proportion just to apply some sanding and finish, I believe they made the wrong choice. If you as an owner obsesses over the imperfections of the inner scroll curl, you may be shocked to learn that Cindy Crawford's nose has hair growing inside.

Apologies to all for hijacking this thread.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[John Kinn]

I know that I'm off-mandolin topic now, but I just wondered if someone could tell me the difference between my 1967 Hound Dog and a Dobro. Great instrument, and it sounds and looks like a Dobro (the trademark).
Thanks,
John

[Big Joe]

Hound dog is a particular dobro model. it is a bit more basic and may contain f holes rather than screens. They often sound very good and very woody. Gibson bought Dobro in 92 much after the one you have was made. They were made in the USA until about 06 when Gibson decided to send them offshore to build. They did not do all that well and I don't think they are currently in production, though I cannot say that for sure.

[John Kinn]

Thank you, Big Joe. Mine has got screens, and looks like most of the ones I've seen with the Dobro label. Good sounding instrument.

[foldedpath]

One big difference between the Hound Dog and the traditional Dobro design, is that the Hound Dog is an "open soundwell" or open body design. It omits the wood ring with holes that sits under the rim of the cone, inside the body, which was a feature of the original Dobros.

Gibson probably built the Hound Dog that way as a cost-saving measure for their lowest-priced Dobro, but there are some contemporary high-end Dobro builders like Beard and Schoonover that use an open body design too. As I understand it, the difference between "modern" and "vintage" Dobro sound, is at least partly determined by whether it includes a classic soundwell that restricts some of the internal air movement, or it's more open. And also whether the body is the traditional vintage depth, or deeper. Some of the contemporary builders are going for deeper bodies.

If Gibson no longer owns the mark, I hope a good small company can resurrect it, the way National Resophonic did with the National brand. Gibson never did very much with the mark in recent years.

[MikeEdgerton]

Gibson still owns the brand, there's a link in a message above that details it's use as collateral for a loan.