National RM-1: your thoughts, impressions, opinions please [Archive]

Ron McMillan

Feb-22-2011, 2:21am

I have put an Wanted ad on the Cafe Classifieds for a National RM-1. I recently had a chance to play one belonging to a friend and fellow Cafe member, and thought it was sublime.

My musical genre of choice is blues, and the RM-1 appears to be perfect for that, yet still more than able to do a great job of other styles. And although it is by no means cheap, at about $2000 it is considerably cheaper than professional-quality bluegrass instruments.

Can anyone here with personal experience of the National give me feedback, caveats, impressions, comments on the instrument, its strengths, failings (if any) and anything else of relevance to someone on the verge of spending more on one instrument than he has spent on musical instruments in his entire life up until now?

If anyone has direct experience of the National 'hot plate' pick up cover plate, I would like to hear from you - likewise anyone with experience of amplifying the RM-1 using alternative pick up arrangements.

Thanks in advance.

ron

John Flynn

Feb-22-2011, 2:45am

I have played a couple of them and I would eventually like to have one, if I ever have way more money for instruments than I probably ever will. Pros: They are very well made, they look really cool, they are extremely loud, but with a great tone. Cons: They are really heavy and after the "new" wears off, which is pretty quick, I wonder how versatile they are. To my mind, and this is just me talkin' for me, the justification for having one is to have an acoustic mandolin that is really freakin' loud, but still sounds good. If you need exactly that, bingo. I don't get the pickup thing, though. If you're going to amplify a mandolin, why bother having a resonator? It would be cheaper, and possibly even lighter, to get a electric with an amp. Also, just personal preference, but I would rather hear the blues on a nice wooden oval hole anyway.

Ron McMillan

Feb-22-2011, 5:58am

I think they must be pretty versatile, as they are one of the instruments of choice for a lot of professional blues players and traditional/folk players. I saw my friend use his with the hot plate fitted in a crowded noisy blues bar setting, and the pick-up plate allowed him to cut through the din with a lovely clear acoustic tone, so I figure that has its attractions.

rm

tburcham

Feb-22-2011, 8:17am

They are fabulous instruments. While I traded mine for another instrument, it is a trade that I still regret. I'll have another one some day!

JeffD

Feb-22-2011, 9:49am

Larry S Sherman

Feb-22-2011, 10:09am

I love my RM-1, and can't imagine parting with it. For me it is not a novelty blues instrument.

I did have National lower my action (I don't play slide).

One point to consider is that there is a limited sweet spot for picking without clicking on the resonator (similar to pick click on fretboard extensions. Luckily it is exactly where my hand is positioned when my wrist touches the cover over the biscuit bridge.

I don't have the hotplate pickup (wasn't an option when I got mine).

Larry

Ron McMillan

Feb-22-2011, 10:40am

There is a social group for RM-1 players on the site.

I am lusting after one myself, and have heard only one consistent criticism - that the action may need to be brought down a little. Mr. Flynn's question is one I wrestle with myself, how versatile are they. But, if I think about it, in most of the situations in which I play, jams, open mikes, benefit concert, etc., the mandolin itself is enough of an oddity, that I could see making the RM-1 my go-to instrument unless something else is needed.

The social group for the RM-1 isn't the busiest one on the Cafe, unfortunately, hence this enquiry.

I have a feeling these are in fact extremely versatile instruments able to do a good job of many disciplines. That is another reason I am so keen.

rm

Douglas McMullin

Feb-22-2011, 12:18pm

Elderly still has a used 2005 listed for $1450.00. It was tempting me, but I am not in a position to buy one right now.

http://elderly.com/vintage/names/national-rm-1-model-one-(c.2005)--90U-5720.htm

Spruce

Feb-22-2011, 12:19pm

I love the RM-1....

My main concern is that they sound too good, and won't sound like a resonator on tape, which is what I want...

I just visited the National factory last month after the NAMM show, and they are in the process of building some all-maple versions with highly figured maple....nice!

Jim Bevan

Feb-22-2011, 2:23pm

Well, luckily I'm in Nashville right now, so, after reading this thread I dropped into Guhn's, and sure enough, they had one, so I played it. Ya, loud! The tone was easy on the ears, not harsh like I expected. The action was good, I did some cross-picking up around the 10th~12th fret, it played easily and in tune.

Jim Garber

Feb-22-2011, 2:43pm

There is one in the classifieds right now. Ad#46157

Michael Eck

Feb-22-2011, 2:52pm

Well, I've owned my RM-1 for over a year now and I am in love with it. I purchased it used from a Cafe member and it does not have a hot plate. I prefer to play into mics.

I use it predominantly in the jug band I play in. I stand between banjo and washboard and often have to fight to be heard with a wooden mandolin. When I whip out the reso, everybody says, man is that thing loud! I actually do have to back off the mic when I use it. The lovely part is that it has tone to spare -- not just volume. I've long owned National resonator guitars (including a 31 Triolian and an 03 Style O, as well as a National maple reso uke), so I'm used to handling and making use of the expanded dynamic range. While there is always talk about volume, folks forget to mention how sweet resos sound when played gently.

I have used it so far in a variety of contexts outside the jug band including street gigs with my historic American music duo and backing singer/songwriters. Works well in each situation, as long as the player is mindful of the tone and volume required for the style. I even use it for chopping bluegrass as long as I back off a little.

I currently have it strung with LaBella flatwounds, which I do believe makes it a more versatile instrument than roundwounds (although if you're sticking to the blues, J74s are just fine).

Yes, it's heavier than an average mandolin, but that's true of most resonator instruments. And it's built like a tank, which is good. You want a heavier build around that cone.

If you're new to the instrument you also have to teach yourself new methods of right damping and hand position, as the cover plate strap is right where your hand might be on other instruments. The picking area of the strings is also much closer to the body, so actual picking style may need to be adjusted. It's second nature for me now.

If you've got other questions, please let me know.

Ryk Loske

Feb-22-2011, 2:52pm

Thanks to Spruce's post i am in DEEP trouble. An all maple RM-1. That would be a must have.

The fiddle player in our string band has an RM-1 that he rarely plays. I've played it a couple of times and my wife has played it more extensively than me. And again like Spruce, we both think it sounds too good to be a resonator.

It'll get the Ten Thumbs up from me if they come out all maple. (Eight Thumbs as is.)

Ryk

dcoventry

Feb-22-2011, 7:08pm

http://www.mandohangout.com/classified/2647

One from that other board....

northfolk

Feb-22-2011, 7:52pm

I had one when they first came out; several years ago. They are extremely well built, clean workmanship and a great sounding instrument. I also traded mine away for another mando; MAS never sleeps? Since that time I had a custom resonator made; using a National cone, all maple construction, with a touch of walnut, tortoise and ebony accents. Mine was less money than the National, sounds as good or maybe even better? I did however have trouble locating a case; I settled on a heavy gig bag for mine; the National case fits like a glove. I really don't use it as much as I thought I would, but I really enjoy it when I do. :mandosmiley:~o)

Bill Foss

Feb-22-2011, 8:35pm

I've had one for several years now and love it. Like others I use it for blues, some rags, some jugband material. The sound is loud, yet pleasant. A well rounded tone, almost mellow (if something can be loud and mellow at the same time). is this due to the wood body? To get a little more funkiness out of it I put on the lightest gauge strings I can find and use a pick that is thinner than the ones I use on my other mandolins. This gives a little more bite and percussivness to the sound, which is something I am looking for. I almost sold it once during a MAS attack, but I'm glad I didn't.

You also might check out commodiums, built by Keith Cary. These have been discussed on the forum.

Shelagh Moore

Feb-22-2011, 9:12pm

It's my mandolin of choice for playing in sessions and gigs for a very wide range of music. Loud but well-rounded with no harshness at all (I use D'Addario FT74 flatwounds which I'm very happy with). Excellent build quality (mine is the two-piece walnut body version with antiqued brass cover, metal badge and black tuners), versatile and comfortable and enjoyable to play. I did my own setting up including lowering the action. I'm really pleased with it! At home I tend to play my Nava 2-point for it's sweet and subtle tone and so as not to keep the neighbours awake!

JonZ

Feb-22-2011, 9:21pm

I go to a bluegrass/old time jam, and what surprises me is how much everyone else in the group likes the sound of the RM-1. Whenever someone new shows up, they always say something like "that sounds so cool".

Ron McMillan

Feb-22-2011, 9:52pm

we ought to get this thread framed. Not a single dissenting voice. Thanks, folks.

Living in Bangkok, I'd almost have to use coated strings due to the humidity. The friend who was out here recently had Thomastik Infelds on his RM-1; they played beautifully, sounded wonderful - and showed no sign of wearing out despite being played long and hard every day.

I'm now in the process of working out how to get one to me in Thailand. Customs here are too unpredictable and too greedy, so it'll have to be hand-carried by a friend, if possible from the USA or Canada.

I'm in too deep now....

rm

JonZ

Feb-22-2011, 10:20pm

Packing it full of heroin when you leave will defray some of the cost. They will never think to look behind the resonator.

Ron McMillan

Feb-23-2011, 2:22am

Packing it full of heroin when you leave will defray some of the cost. They will never think to look behind the resonator.

They'll especially not think to look now, since no way they'll have picked up on that bit of sound advice. Thanks Jon!

Rodney Riley

Feb-23-2011, 3:04am

Watch out if your packin it and tryin to carry on a plane...http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?70509-Nitrocellulose&p=896491 ~o)

Oh, and thanks(read this in a sarcastic tone). I had almost quit lookin and droolin over them. Will be writing it up on my "bucket list" along with the Redline "Hemi" of instruments I would like to buy before I die.:(

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 3:19am

I've had two, but let them both go. Someday I hope to hang on to one.

Bertram Henze

Feb-23-2011, 4:41am

Packing it full of heroin when you leave will defray some of the cost. They will never think to look behind the resonator.

It's a good thing that this is meant to be funny and understood as such by everybody.
Or else somebody might find out that
1 - trained dogs smell the drugs through packing and probably through a resonator,
2 - drug trafficking is punishable by death in Thailand.

Anybody travelling there should watch his mando case like a hawk, or else they might suddenly find little white bags in his case he never saw before.

Ron McMillan

Feb-23-2011, 5:28am

It's my mandolin of choice for playing in sessions and gigs for a very wide range of music. Loud but well-rounded with no harshness at all (I use D'Addario FT74 flatwounds which I'm very happy with). Excellent build quality (mine is the two-piece walnut body version with antiqued brass cover, metal badge and black tuners), versatile and comfortable and enjoyable to play. I did my own setting up including lowering the action.

Hi Richard. I think I will be getting one from a store that prides itself in doing good set-up, but just out of interest, how complicated is altering/lowering the action on the RM-1?

ron

Jim Bevan

Feb-23-2011, 12:26pm

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 12:45pm

Hi Richard. I think I will be getting one from a store that prides itself in doing good set-up, but just out of interest, how complicated is altering/lowering the action on the RM-1?
A lot less complicated than performing the same work on a vintage National! I bought an RM-1 from a guy in a remote Alaska fishing village (no joke, it arrived in a fish box). It was in good shape except for high action. John Saba at Dusty Strings fixed it for less than a hundred bucks ... I don't remember whether it meets the technical definition of a bolt-on neck, but John did say something about a bolt inside the neck joint that enabled him to adjust the action without disassembling the whole shooting match.

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 12:47pm

Not to derail the smuggling theme, but: has anybody been able to compare the Nationals with the Rigels?
They're a lot cheaper, but I discussed a custom one with them, and the $K was about what Pete would charge me...
I played the prototype Rigel resophonic, which was a fantastic instrument, and a couple of other Rigel resophonics, which didn't measure up to the prototype if you ask me. Don't tell Pete, but I think the RM-1 is better than any of them. Haven't played them side by side, just relying on memory.

Spruce

Feb-23-2011, 1:09pm

Don't tell Pete, but I think the RM-1 is better than any of them.

I can't imagine a better reso mando than the RM-1...

Man, I wish I would have snapped some pics at the factory....
Those things look amazing under the cone--all done with CNCs...
They had a CNC shooting water that did the cutting on their metal covers...
Quite the operation....

Jim Bevan

Feb-23-2011, 1:14pm

Thanks, Martin.

The National would have a more authentic-cool cachet, too, I would imagine,
and, not that I really care about such things, but it would get past the Trad Police a little easier. ;)

Larry S Sherman

Feb-23-2011, 1:20pm

Man, I wish I would have snapped some pics at the factory....Those things look amazing under the cone--all done with CNCs...

Here's a shot of mine:

68849

Larry

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 1:29pm

not that I really care about such things, but it would get past the Trad Police a little easier. ;)
There are Trad Police in Brazil?

Jim Bevan

Feb-23-2011, 1:48pm

There are Trad Police in Brazil?

Ha-ha! No, there weren't, but I'm back in the US.

Hey, I'll be in Everett in a couple of weeks, we should hook up.

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 1:51pm

Yes, let's! Are you on tour? The wife and I went to a Soleil show last summer; 'twas fantastic.

JonZ

Feb-23-2011, 1:54pm

Here's a shot of mine:

68849

Larry

Those compartments would keep the heroin from shifting around too much. Very handy.

Jim Bevan

Feb-23-2011, 4:09pm

We're in Nashville, "rebuilding" (going from Big Top mode to Arena mode), and the new tour kicks off in Vancouver in early March.

mrmando

Feb-23-2011, 7:07pm

Well, Jim, if you can get me a couple of comps to your Everett show, I'll tell the wife it's her anniversary present. :)

Ron McMillan

Feb-23-2011, 10:22pm

Those compartments would keep the heroin from shifting around too much. Very handy.

Once was crass but forgiveable. Twice, however....

Jim Bevan

Feb-23-2011, 10:24pm

Sorry Martin, no comps on the Arena tours ('cuz the arenas sell the tickets or something like that).
But I give free backstage tours to qualified customers! :)

Shelagh Moore

Feb-23-2011, 11:19pm

Hi Ron,

Sorry about the delay in replying... over in Mexico City at the moment! I didn't go to the extent of adjusting the neck angle as per Martin's luthier but lowered the action at the nut and at the saddle and put a hard leather strip underneath the leading edge of the tailpiece to increase the break angle over the bridge a little... all of which was simple enough and which has given an action that suits me well. I also eased the tuners which tend to come a little stiff new from the factory.

Ron McMillan

Feb-24-2011, 2:58am

Hi Richard,

Mexico City - long way from Perthshire! Hope you're having a great time.

ron

Steve-o

Mar-02-2011, 5:33pm

Ok, who bought the used '05 RM-1 from Elderly? I was saving my pennies for that one! Hope it went to a good home.

Spruce

Mar-02-2011, 5:53pm

Ok, who bought the used '05 RM-1 from Elderly? I was saving my pennies for that one! Hope it went to a good home.

There was a really nice one at Buffalo Bros. a month ago for a good price....
NFI, etc. etc.

JeffD

May-07-2011, 8:52pm

dcoventry

May-07-2011, 9:25pm

Ok, so, ah, in order of insanity inducing MAS: RM-1 then Weber Fern. National is in San Luis Obispo, and there is great beef jerky down there, too(Cattaneo Bros.). Ok, road trip!

Ray(T)

May-09-2011, 1:22pm

I got one I got one. I just picked it up. I was worried about the action but its just fine.

Wow does it sound great. I have been playing all evening. Trying every tune I know. So far it does them all.

What a great mandolin.

If you like the sound it makes on its own, you'll love how it sounds with other instruments. I've had mine for a year and a half now and find that it always sounds better in a "band" situation + everyone else seems to like it (apart from possibly b*%jo players!). The nut needed adjustment from new and the only thing its not that good at is a bluegrass chop - still you can't have everything.

See you over on the RM-1 group then???
Ray