Saga-AM 10 mandolin kit

[Jim Ferguson]

Greetings all........I am interested in trying my hand at constructing a mandolin at some point down the road. To whet my appetite I have purchased the Saga-AM 10 mandolin kit. I was intially looking at the StewMac campfire mando kit and the Grizzly mando kit but both are out of stock & no guarantees there will be any kits in stock for possibly months to come. Sooooo........I decided that I wanted to at least get my hands on some type of kit to get a feel for some aspects of the process & so I bought the Saga-AM 10 mando kit.....a nice looking A-model mando kit for $150.00. Anyone out there ever try this kit??? Any thoughts on the kit & your final product??
I also bought the Siminoff book on how to build an F-model mando.......I have been enjoying my preliminary looks at that book.......:-)
Peace,
Jim

[Bill Snyder]

It is the kit frequently referred to as the IV kit (International Violin). Good kit for the money. Many threads on it and many people here have built one including me about 6 years ago.
Good luck. Enjoy it.

[Jim Ferguson]

It is the kit frequently referred to as the IV kit (International Violin). Good kit for the money. Many threads on it and many people here have built one including me about 6 years ago.
Good luck. Enjoy it.

Thanks Bill.......I am looking forward to its arrival...:-) I'll scope out the threads you mentioned.
Peace,
Jim

[bmac]

Jim... Just take it slow and deliberate.... I assume you are getting the Siminoff book with the kit. (Highly recomended). I have built two and learned a lot.... THe more expensive kits are obviously good too, but the IV kit is wonderful for beginners.

Keep us informed and don't hesitate to ask questions if you need to.

[mcdsandy]

Bart:
I purchased the Saga-AM 10 mandolin kit and am confused on the directions on the placement of the tone bars on the sound board.(face). The directions show they are way out of symmetry with the F-holes. Do I go by the directions or make they evenly spaced from the F-Holes?
Thanks! Mike McDaniel

[bennyb]

Howdy Jim,
I built two of the iv kits(probably still the same as your saga kit), and both turned out well. Hopefully you won't get obsessed with trying to turn them into Loars. I later took the back off the first one, carved out the tonebars, regraduated(thinned the top and back), reassembled and...yep, still a mandolin.

To Mike, here's an older thread.. (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?20834-Location-of-Tone-Bars&highlight=tonebar+position) that discusses tonebar position. Sounds like your plans are probably right.

my best, benny

[fatt-dad]

the tone bars are not symetrical to the f-holes. The Siminof book shows how the bass bar is closer to the f-hole than the treble bar would be (or the other way around - can't recall), but the book shows there is some difference.

f-d

[mcdsandy]

Benny:
Thanks for the information on the placement of the tone bars on the Saga A-10 kit. Do you remember how much you sanded off the face and back or what an average thickness should be on the Saga mandolin? I am not a musician, but am making this mandolin for my son's college graduation and he is an experienced musician. I am reading the Siminoff book, but have only access to a digital tuner my wife uses on her ukulele. I would appreciate any information you deem would be helpful in putting the Saga kit together!
Thanks, Mike

[walt33]

A few years ago, improziv did an outstanding job of documenting the construction of his first IV kit, complete with a link to his detailed blog on the subject. I did a quick search and could not find the thread, but it's worth looking at carefully, especially if this is your first kit. Avi built his kit as an x-braced oval hole. IIRC, he made the x-braces out of the tone bar material from the kit, and somewhere down the road the top collapsed because the braces didn't extend far enough out toward the ribs. There's a separate thread on that sad story.

[Bill Snyder]

The Saga kit only comes with f-holes already cut. Some of the other kits offered by Int. Violin don't have the hole(s) cut to give yo the option of f or oval.
As for the placement of the tonebars some highly respected builders have offered up that their exact placement is not really critical.

[Avi Ziv]

A few years ago, improziv did an outstanding job of documenting the construction of his first IV kit, complete with a link to his detailed blog on the subject. I did a quick search and could not find the thread, but it's worth looking at carefully, especially if this is your first kit. Avi built his kit as an x-braced oval hole. IIRC, he made the x-braces out of the tone bar material from the kit, and somewhere down the road the top collapsed because the braces didn't extend far enough out toward the ribs. There's a separate thread on that sad story.


Walt - my old blog (http://wood-notes.blogspot.com/) is still around. It documented my build experience starting from no tools, no workshop, no knowledge and ending up with a nice instrument. I learned a TON. The top did collapse eventually.

The thread about the mechanical failure can still be found here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?62526-Structural-failure-is-upon-us.-A-learning-opportunity-perhaps)

I know it looks like a bad ending but it is NOT! I am a firm believer that you learn more from touching the edges of your experience and mistakes, than when everything goes well. I'm way past it emotionally and working on a new mandolin from scratch now. That mandolin is hanging on the wall, with a cracked top and I'm ok with that.

Moving on :)

[walt33]

Hey Avi, how's it going? Thanks for pointing us at your blog and threads. You can't have success without some degree of failure. As Thomas Edison said when asked when his experiments would yield some results, "I've gotten lots of results. I know several thousand things that won't work!"

[Jim Ferguson]

Greetings all.........thanks for the tips and the side threads are valuable too.
I will keep you all posted as I begin my mandoadventure.
Peace,
Jim

[bennyb]

Howdy again Jim, Mike, etal,
Re my experience with the iv kits, both a shape, f hole, and probably the same as your saga kit. I just sanded the tops down through the grits to 220 and called it done. At this point, there's no real "recurve" - valley running around the edge and I didn't change the arching of the top. Moving to the inside, cleaned up all the tooling marks, and set my tone bars ~ .25W-.350H-8.1L(finish dims). Using a tool along the lines ...this thread... (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?4401-Thickness-calipers&highlight=depth+gauge) and a dial indicator from harbor freight(currently $12) both tops started around .200 and I've thinned them to .170 and .180. That's the max thickness in the bridge zone. The min is about .115(approx 5/8" from edge). Oh yeah, Rule no. 1: every board is different:confused:; Rule no. 2: Practice on scrap first:disbelief:. The backs arrived quite thick and I thinned them to around ..edit .160max and .115min again not changing the shape of the arching, so after sanding, the wood removal is all on the inside.

Both kits had some flaws which I either repaired or hid. Either one or both showed a slight separation of the center joint(on the back) near the tailblock, which I patched. The rims splayed out a little, so the backs looked like they were too small, just barely. Fix is either pinch the sides in, or bind the back - or return.

One more thing: leave a little extra meat on the top in the "string zone."
Enough for ya? :-)

Well, there's a lot more than can be abridged to one or two paragraphs; I'll just leave it there.

benny

[mandolinplucker]

I have one scratch build and a few IV kits including one of the F kits, so that is the extent of my experience. The Siminoff book is an excellent guide. I had to read it a couple of times and study the pics to get the concept down. There seems to be a consensus among the real builders on the forum that the section on tap tuning should be torn out and thrown away. I work the top down close to the thickness in the book. I shape the top and form the recurve and get to final thickness from the back side. I use a small jewelers hammer with a felt pad on the face and tap the top as I work it with course sand paper till I get as good a ring as that piece of wood will give me, without going thinner than the book says. Glue the tone bars in like the book says,shape them close to the specs in the book. I work them down till I get a good ringing note from tapping over the bars. Then I work the treble bar down till I get a difference between the two bars. I don't shoot for a special note, just a difference. Everyone has their own way ov doing things and that is mine and it works for me. Good luck. I have seen a couple of these kits that were pretty bad and sounded like "thumpin on a cardboard box". I play two of mine daily and they sound and play as good as any pac rim instrument and better than most.

[pieman25]

First post in this forum, so I'm a newb at this. I've build a saga strat kit and I've been satisfied with the results. It's not a mandolin, I understand that, but I'm going to say that this kit was built with the beginner in mind and makes a beginner guitar - there is nothing wrong with it, but the tuners and pickups have been upgraded. I've seen a mando. kit by them and I think it was a LOT nicer than the strat kit. That being said, I'd still recommend getting better tuners, and maybe (just maybe) even a bridge and fretboard right off the bat - the fretboard on my strat was poorly done. Of course, these are my opinions and I've yet to build the saga mando. kit.

[Jim Ferguson]

Great input Benny. Mandolinplucker, & pieman.......I will most certainly keep your specs handy Benny.
Thanks a bunch.
Peace
jim

[bigskygirl]

Hello All, I just received my Saga AM-10 and wondered how your build went and if you have any advice/lessons learned. Also, there were no instructions, now it all seems pretty straightforward but......I've never built an instrument before. Any advice is welcome as I am looking forward to learning to build and play this wonderful instrument.

[walt33]

Hello All, I just received my Saga AM-10 . . . there were no instructions . . .

You can find instructions for the Stewart Macdonald mando kits here:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Kits/Mandolin_Kits/A5_Mandolin_Kit.html?tab=Instructions#details

Not exactly the same kit, but it should give you a feel for how it should go together.

[nhanduti]

Hi Jim,

I've build a Saga kit too, maybe this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/greybeard-photography/sets/72157601823079648/) can help you, it helped me. The Siminoff book is a verry good book, he is a master. My mando becomes a good mando, Siminoff has helped me! but I used a bad quality glue and the neck detached from the body, I'll fix it next week. I have no pics from the process, but have some here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42585404@N03/sets/72157622633147825/). I've made some changes in kit, as you'll see, like binding and headstock design and a new peghole alignment.

Hoppe I could help you, best regards and good lucky!

paulo.