c.1925 Martin-made? SS Stewart Bowlback Mandolin

[Jake Wildwood]

This thing looks like a slightly altered Style 1 to me, probably ordered by B&J from Martin for their SS Stewart brand name... probably c.1923-1925. Strangely enough there are no bar frets... they're tanged. Curious to me! But everything else pretty much fits!

If anyone has any other ideas for ID, feel free to correct me, but this is very close to another Martin I've played from the same timeframe.

More info/photos by clicking this link to go to my blog. (http://antebelluminstruments.blogspot.com/2011/02/c1925-martin-made-ss-stewart-bowlback.html)

68111 68112

68113 68114

68115 68116

Oh, and right... work included cleaning, regluing bowl seam separations, setup, etc.

[MikeEdgerton]

I'd take it for a Martin product. I photographed every bowlback in the Martin museum a few years ago (through the glass). I think I may still have the photos.

[brunello97]

Nice to see this all cleaned up, Jake! I am in on the Martin attribution: the headstock, body shape-particularly the bowl, binding, fretboard, (I thought I saw side position markers when it was up on the ebay. Was I mistaken?) And then there is that neck joint detail. I think it is a very nice looking mandolin. How does it sound? Are you planning on keeping this one or selling it?

Mick

[Schlegel]

That's a very Martiny headstock, esp. the style of volute. That is not common on any other brand. I like it.

[Jake Wildwood]

Mike: It looks like one to me.

Mick: Yep, side dots are there. It sounds wonderful... very precise, with really great D to E strings (very rich and good sustain), and focused bass. I'm not sure if I'm going to keep it or sell it, yet. Might leave it just in the brick & mortar store for a while so I have some time to think about it.

[Jim Garber]

It is interesting that the volute does not appear on earlier (first decade) bowlbacks but does show up in the 1920s. Here is one from a 1923 style E (non-bowlback) from Frank Ford's Museum page. I was initially doubtful about the Martin attribution for the Stewart but it may be likely.

[brunello97]

I have this style 1 dated 1908 in my files. I wonder if I have made some transcription error. I have to check some serial numbers against some of the others.

Mick

Edit: It just occurred to me, Jim, are you referring to the back neck/head joint as 'volute'?

[Jim Garber]

Yes, Schlegel also noted that volute. Interesting... these pics are all from Frets.com museum. 1909 No.1 Mandola, 1913, No.6, 1902 No.4. The mandola seems to have the volute. I can't quite tell on the pic of the #6. Mine is closer to the #4 pictured here.

[MikeEdgerton]

It's definitely more like the later Martins, almost looking like a cross between the bowlbacks and the Style A and B. If I hadn't seen the volute on the one Frank Ford has I wouldn't have taken it for a Martin. The cutout on the headstock appeared on a lot of other makers mandolins.

[Jake Wildwood]

Under closer study, the fret slots look like they've been filled a bit so my guess is the frets were replaced at one point. It's especially evident on the 1st fret bass side of the neck.

[brunello97]

Help a tired architect out. I am getting confused. Are you guys calling the tapered neck joint a 'volute' or do you mean the actual volutes in the cutout on the headstock?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volute

Mick

BTW Here is a Martin bowl advertised as a 1919 on the ebay. One small photo shows a glimpse of the special neck joint.

http://cgi.ebay.com/vintage-Martin-bowl-back-mandolin-1919-w-case-/170599082443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b87f69cb#ht_500wt_1129

[Schlegel]

Mick, volute in this context means that raised triangle bit at the back of the neck. like this one:

http://www.elderly.com/new_instruments/items/images/10N/0045S_volute.jpg

It's a originally a feature caused by a certain neck joint construction, but I have seen it retained on some one-piece neck/pegheads also.

[brunello97]

Yup. Thanks, Schlegel. Like Quasimodo, I had a hunch. I am familiar with the construction detail, it shows up on a few of my mandolins. I actually like the one-piece versions better, like some residual memory of an actual joint. No classicist I, but the choice of the name leaves me a bit more confused. Why not call it a tractor or a Belgian waffle? A volute is a volute. That is not a volute. But....I guess it is what people call it.

Mick

[Jake Wildwood]

Mick: It's always been extremely confusing to me, too... but when in Rome... in this case, don't do as the Romans... or the Greeks.

[Jim Garber]

Mick: I see what you mean definition of volute (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/volute):


–noun
1. a spiral or twisted formation or object.
2.Architecture . a spiral ornament, found especially in the capitals of the Ionic, Corinthian, and Composite orders.
3.Carpentry . a horizontal scrolled termination to the handrail of a stair.
4.Zoology .
a.a turn or whorl of a spiral shell.
b.any of various tropical marine gastropods of the family Volutidae, many species of which have shells prized for their coloration.
5.the spiral casing surrounding the impeller of a volute pump.


Funny, these terms that apply to instruments. Now I realize that it was originally an architecture term. I only know it as that little triangular lump at the neck joint. I also find terms like vintage or lute mandolin sort of odd in relation to their original meanings when applied to instruments.

[MikeEdgerton]

Frank Ford's Glossary (http://www.frets.com/fretspages/general/glossary/glossary.html)

Here's (http://www.frets.com/fretspages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Structural/1887Restore/1887restore01.html) an article on Frank Ford's www.frets.com that shows the detail of the joint that apparently started all of this for Martin. They continue the detail today on some guitar models but it has nothing to do with any joinery.

[brunello97]

"....by any other name would smell as sweet." I think it is a beautiful joint whatever it is called. Frank's glossary needs a bit of clarification, imho. Could you call the triangular/half-cone joint a volute? Sure. But you could call it a lot of other things as well and be no less confusing. Funny how names get applied to things, particularly when there already are proper volutes on the headstock. Here is the back of Vega Pettine special. The two (very Ionic) 'volutes' at the headstock cut out and a (perhaps) more volute-y radiused transition at the neck. My hope would be this is more what FF had in mind......

Mick

[MikeEdgerton]

Who am I to blow against the wind :)

[brunello97]

Who am I to blow against the wind :)

I've been chuckling about this all morning....I misread Jake's line: "When not in Rome, don't do as the Romans." Everything makes a lot more sense then. :whistling:

Mick