View Full Version : Oxford American music issue: Ricky Skaggs
Did anyone else see the poem "The Denunciation of Ricky Skaggs From On High” in the 2010 Oxford American music issue? I've been reading the issue (and listening to the awesome CD that accompanies it) for a few weeks now, and just got to the poetry section at the end where I was surprised to see this piece. I gotta say it is pretty bold, and funny if you happen to agree with the author's point of view about Ricky's recent output. It begins thusly:
No more light strumming of your mandolin
and the whispered tone and the sap-
happy featherweight songs in my honor.
Ricky no more treacly bull####, I actually
rose up from the dead. Do you understand
what that means exactly.
You'll have to get a copy of the magazine to see the rest!
Never mind, I found the rest on the Internets (but you should still buy the mag, it is incredible).
…Ricky you have
suffered in your life enough to know better
than to sing that stuff. It pains me to hear it.
Stick to what hurts most and mean it. Cut open
something valuable and bleed it. Hang it
upside down in your yard and let it drain
into the grass. My god Ricky I might have to
come down there and show you what I mean.
Don’t make me. I got eyes like laser beams
and a voice like Ralph Stanley but deeper
down darker. No more sweetness Ricky.
You are not a bee. There is a broken down
burning house inside the soul and someone
in the window waves. It is me. Dammit
Ricky, do something. Sing something true
the way you used to. Heaven is not a given.
Make a ladder of what happens to actually
matter to you — blood, strings, and the ear.
Alex Orr
Jan-27-2011, 9:02pm
Before this thread gets too prickly, I'd suggest that this was done with a great deal of humorous sarcasm from someone who honestly likes Ricky's music. IMHO, it should be taken with a giant grain of salt.
On a broader topic, I really dig the Oxford American Music issue each year.
Willie Poole
Jan-27-2011, 10:34pm
I don`t think Ricky needs any of us to take his side and praise him, and it certainly would not be anyway....he is the only bluegrass "biggie" that has really "snubbed" me when I have been talking to any of them at festivals...He is a great picker and singer but not much on a personality....Just my opinion.....Maybe I should have told him I liked his latest CD instead of telling him the truth.....That was three or four years ago........Willie
Ivan Kelsall
Jan-28-2011, 3:08am
I have to say that i'm a great fan of Ricky Skaggs,but i also have to come clean & say that some of the things that he's said in the past,seemed to me to be an attempt to put himself forward as Bill Monroe's 'natural successor' - not exactly humble IMHO.
Regardless of the feelings of others towards RS,& i'm sure that the article in question was meant in the way that Alex points out. RS has come up with some wonderful Mandolin tunes. His "Instrumentals" CD is one of the very best that i have. Having said that,i do wish he'd cease trying to put himself forward as much as he does,he doesn't need to do that,he's earned his place in Bluegrass music & doesn't need to be pushy about it.
Re.what Willie says about being 'snubbed' - i was with a friend of mine (a very fine mandolin player) at a UK Bluegrass festival years back,when on approaching the leader of a well know US band,& a great & respected mandolin player,my friend asked him a simple question re.a bit of technique. He was greeted with a bad tempered & disgusting remark. OK,these guys don't have to answer our questions,& i'm sure that they get a tad prickly at times,but they should guard their remarks & if they can't be civil,say nothing at all,
Ivan
allenhopkins
Jan-28-2011, 10:54am
Singing songs of dying children, bloody school bus accidents, murder, faithless love, and terminal loneliness perhaps used to be the way to be a successful bluegrass/"trad" country entertainer. "When whiskey and blood run together, did you hear anyone pray?" and such, if you know what I mean.
Maybe not so much any more. The face of successful commercial bluegrass/country now? Maybe Alison Krausse, light voice, sweetness, reduced "grit" content, not so "high lonesome." Do you want to be the intense, mournful voice of pain and regret, or do you want to sell lots of CD's? Ralph can get away with singing Oh Death, but can you?
Don't know, but, satire and sarcasm aside (how would Jesus sing bluegrass if He came back to earth?), not a lot of mileage in second-guessing musicians' choices of their paths to success. Skaggs went "total country" a few years ago (I keep my Don't Cheat In Our Hometown LP just so I can admire his hair on the cover), veered back towards bluegrass, and has been pretty steadfastly bluegrass-eclectic ever since.
No personal contact, don't care about his personality, doubt he's the "next Monroe"* or anything like it, really admire his musical skills -- and not going to quibble with his taste. Wish him success, fame and fortune, hope he doesn't need "a broken-down burning house inside his soul" to make music I enjoy.
* Don't forget, Monroe died poor in a donated house.
JeffD
Jan-28-2011, 12:35pm
I aspire to be a talented and successful enough musician to garner as much criticism and pseudo-intellectual "denunciation" he gets. Ain't nobody writing poems about me. :(
JEStanek
Jan-28-2011, 1:31pm
There was a mandolinist named Jeff
Who liked to play Old Time music best
with a twang and a shout
"My E string has popped out"
Those high notes can be played with a rest.
Jamie you have made my day.
JEStanek
Jan-28-2011, 3:32pm
We live to serve at the Mandolin Cafe!
Jamie
Charley wild
Jan-28-2011, 4:06pm
I'm another who doesn't particularly care about a "famous person's" personality. I also have had a bad experience with a famous mandolin player in answer to a perfectly innocent question. He blistered me so bad that a person who knew both of us got me aside and tried to apologize for this guy. I found out later he wasn't having a bad day, that's the way it was with him. When you approached him you never knew how he was going to react.
I don't hate him. He's very talented and I love to hear him play. It comes down to, how much do they owe us? A subject worthy of hours of debate for some. To me, that's life.
I have not met many of my heros face to face. As a kid I met Jean Shepherd, got his autograph, and that has been enough for me.
I can't imagine not being a disappointment to all of my fans when they meet me face to face, without my makeup. That fameous people manage to have any social life is amazing.
I was just thinking about how much I like the music of Charlie Poole, and how much I probably would not have liked him if I met him.
And I think it is a real hoot to criticize a musician for singing songs that are too hopeful. I sincerely hope I never become too intelligent and sophisticated to think that tomorrow can be better than today.
Bad Temper? Read the section in Ralph Stanley's book about how his guitar player was beat to death because his son bested another man's son in a picking contest.
Ivan Kelsall
Jan-29-2011, 2:55am
A person's 'personality' is their own property,but,when it comes to 'meeting & greeting' their fans,who most likely have all their recordings (as we do !),they should at least remember who's putting the bread on their table & make an effort to be polite. I don't mean to sound pompous about that point,but it's true.
In over 45 years of playing Bluegrass,i've been fortunate enough to have met many terrific musicians & instrument builders,the most memorable of which,have been the epitomy of friendliness & openness. Bill Monroe, who wasn't always as friendly as he could be,(so i've read), was polite & indeed charming, when i had my brief conversation with him many years ago,& that's the way that i'll always remember him personally - ''first impressions'' do count in most cases,
Ivan
Darren Bailey
Jan-29-2011, 4:53am
I got to spend a whole day in the company of one my long term musical heroes and his friendliness blew me away. I've only ever spoken to two of my musical inspirations and both left me with a smile. As a result, I have to admit (in what is probably a shallow way) I enjoy their music even more. If they'd been bad experiences I think it would have soured the music for me. The warmth that comes through singing and playing can elicit a response which also leaves me feeling good. I'm not sure I can separate the art from the artist. I have another hero who I deliberately avoided meeting a few years back because I suspected he was not a "people person" and I didn't want to lose the pleasure of his music by thinking what a jerk he'd been every time I heard him play.
Willie Poole
Jan-29-2011, 1:19pm
I read a little quote just yesterday that fits in here..."What other people think of me is none of my business"...This might hold true in a lot of cases but as a musician I want people to think good things of me so I can sell more CD`s and get more gigs.....I have tried real hard for many, many years to erase the bad names that bluegrass pickers have had in the past, like "most of them are drunks" etc....That being said I want the people that hear me play to like me for my music and for the way I associate with them off stage, I don`t hear many, if any bad things said about me and my band.....I know all of the things I post on here aren`t taken the way i would for them to be taken, we can`t put inflection and things like that on this computer so some things are read differntly than they are meant to be..
Willie
Randy Smith
Jan-29-2011, 1:22pm
Who wrote this poem? Whether or not anyone enjoys this work, its author might appreciate ten minutes of fame, even on the Cafe! Sorry in advance if I've missed his or her name.
RS (intials coincidence only)
SincereCorgi
Jan-29-2011, 3:00pm
Who wrote this poem? Whether or not anyone enjoys this work, its author might appreciate ten minutes of fame, even on the Cafe! Sorry in advance if I've missed his or her name.
RS (intials coincidence only)
Must every message board be thrown into spiteful argument by the ineludible scourge that is modern poetry?
This is kinda neat, probably more discussion than any poem's gotten in the Oxford American for ten years. Great magazine.
Salty Dog
Jan-30-2011, 1:25am
Willie, I might assume that your comment about Ricky's CD could have involved the idea of "overproduced". Anyone who thinks that five very talented pickers taking a break at the same time (and overplaying each other!) is "Traditional Bluegrass" is wrong (unless it's a "string band" break). Traditional Bluegrass is SIMPLE music (remember Duffey's "negative stage presence comment?") and Ricky has simply not followed that model, so he is not preserving Monroe style bluegrass. John Starling used to call this "superpicker overkill". At this point I will not buy anything from "Skaggs Family Records" without having heard it first. I don't really have a problem with that style, or different styles, although I prefer traditional bluegrass, but the real problem I have is the representation - don't call yourselves traditional if you aren't or don't know what it means. My gut feel is that Ricky has fallen back into the Nashville business production trap and lost control of his music again. Probably next on the agenda will be a move to Branson and another return to the "roots".
Cheryl Watson
Jan-30-2011, 11:03am
Anyone reasonably well-known in the public eye gets critics. This "poem" seems to be written in the voice of Bill Monroe, as if he is looking down on Ricky and is royally peeved at him for not being authentic. Yeah, pretty bold and quite tasteless, I think.
I really admire Ricky Scaggs and his band Kentucky Thunder. They are awesome musicians at the top of their game. I have also heard all the reports of Ricky being a jerk and too much of a preacher. I saw him live at IBMA in a mandolin workshop and he was friendly enough after the show.
I dunno, maybe he is a moody guy or maybe people bother him too much but I think that if he wants to play lighter, more subtle music and get artsy, well that is his choice. He is fully capable of doing a wider range of music than traditional, hard driving bluegrass full of death and misery. I'm certain that he is fully aware that he is going to have his critics either way.
And, Ricky sure knows how to make money; he sure ain't no po bluegrasser! He has his standard price--it is in the many thousands of dollars-- while the B circuit bands are lucky to make a few thousand dollars and the local bands play for a max of $100 per man and very often these days with the economy, get nada.
Willie Poole
Jan-30-2011, 11:29am
I have never doubted Ricky`s talents or ability to make money......I have hung and/or brushed elbows with a lot of the big stars and two of the most talented but egotistical people that I have been around playing bluegrass is Ricky and Jimmy Martin...I do understand that when they come off of the stage they might be hot and sweaty or hungry and want some time to them selves but Ricky approached me, not me seeking him out, and asked me what I thought of his new album and I told him the music was fine but the songs should been recorded on one of his old country albums because they sure ain`t bluegrass, that when he just kinda gave me a wave of his hand and said "Pshaw" and walked away, about four or five people standing nearby applauded and agreed with me...I met Ricky when he played with the country Gentleman and he was a whole lot different in those days....I`m sure he has a lot of people bothering him when he is trying to take a break and rest but I didn`t seek him out as I said before....
I have to say like Salty Dog, I never buy any recordings that have anything to do with Skaggs...and I thank you Salty Dog for taking my side of this...I don`t mean to step on any toes but Bluegrass is something that is dear to my heart and when they call that "Noise" bluegrass it gets my goat, there are some new songs that have that old bluegrass style and flavor so those are what I enjoy as well as the oldies and goodies....
Willie
300win
Jan-30-2011, 2:36pm
My dad always used to tell me... " son, they ain't nobody any better than you are, but you ain't no better than anyone else "..... we all put our britches on the same way.... one leg at a time...... some folks are famous and some ain't, some of them are great pickers, but in my time I've heard, seen, and picked music with people that are just as good as any of the famous ones, but they'll never be heard other than locally. Whenever a person decides to show their face in public and perform, they had better be ready to be nice to whoever comes to listen to them no matter if they feel good or not.
Ivan Kelsall
Jan-31-2011, 1:33am
From 300win - "they had better be ready to be nice to whoever comes to listen to them no matter if they feel good or not." . Right on there 300 !. "Don't get above your raisin''. I've certainly got that impression from a few artistes that i've had the chance to meet. They were hardly civil enough to string a polite sentence together - far too important to speak to a low-life like me.
Nevertheless,i can always vote with my wallet - that's if i want to lower myself to their level,
Ivan:cool:~:>
300win
Jan-31-2011, 3:03am
I've jammed with a very few well knowns in Bluegrass and a few not so well knowns, and I'll name 'em. Vassar Clements, John McCuen, Terry Baucom { known him for 40 years }, Jerry Douglas, Wesley Golden, and Ricky Scaggs a very long time ago when the band Boone Creek was forming, Lou Reid and Jimmy Haley two original Quiksilver musicians { known them forever since I grew up and we played in a band together for about 10 years }. Thats the well knowns, here are the lesser well knowns Frank Greathouse { New Deal String Band back in the late '60s early '70s } and the late great Jim Eanes who our band used to back up at festivals. And back when I knew all these fellows, none of them were haughty in any way. But time, fame, and fortune changes some folks no matter what.
JEStanek
Jan-31-2011, 9:32am
I've met a lot of artists as a volunteer at the Philadelphia Folk FEstival and attending shows at the Sellersville Theater. In my experience, I've yet to run into an artist who was terribly rude, even when they were dealing with festival problems (like being late or not having all of their people listed for credentials). Granted my job is to make their life as easy as possible so they'll be in the best frame of mind for performing. We've had a handful of people who needed more hand holding or special needs. There are all different kinds of people in this world and we all have different moods and stuff impacting them. It's a shame when a personal interaction sours you on a talented performer. It's tough not to judge someone on a first/only interaction.
Jamie
David
Jan-31-2011, 11:05am
The author's name is Steve Scafidi. Google to find out more about him.
It's interesting how this thread turned into a discussion of artists' personalities, when the poem has nothing to say on that matter. It's music criticism, much better and more interesting than most, even if you don't agree with it.
allenhopkins
Jan-31-2011, 12:05pm
...It's interesting how this thread turned into a discussion of artists' personalities, when the poem has nothing to say on that matter. It's music criticism, much better and more interesting than most, even if you don't agree with it.
Seems to happen with every Skaggs thread. Better or worse, he's controversial in the bluegrass community, due to his exuberant stage personality, his musical career choices, and his approach to what he evidently considers "traditional" bluegrass -- though others don't consider it such.
The "music criticism" in the poem, though, led into that. Is Skaggs' bluegrass music too cheerful and upbeat, without the deep mournful foreboding of some of the earlier bluegrassers he seeks to evoke and emulate? That was Scafidi's thesis in his poem. I agree it has little to do with whether Skaggs blew someone off at a festival, but we just can't seem to leave Ricky alone, can we? The poet included...
Bluegrass Music is Simple Music? That's like saying haiku is Simple Poetry. Neither one is true. Many times there is a thought that Bluegrass is an old form, If you benchmark it from Flatt and Scruggs joining Bill Monroe it is not even old enough for full Social Security. Monroe's efforts were a radical departure from the antecedant forms.
Randy Smith
Jan-31-2011, 3:49pm
The author's name is Steve Scafidi. Google to find out more about him.
It's interesting how this thread turned into a discussion of artists' personalities, when the poem has nothing to say on that matter. It's music criticism, much better and more interesting than most, even if you don't agree with it.
Thanks for posting Scafidi's name. I wished we'd been given that originally when the poem was copied onto this thread. Anyway, discussing poetry's boring ;) --let's forget the poem so everyone can back to the usual fun: bashing or defending Ricky.
Schlegel
Jan-31-2011, 4:13pm
Bluegrass Music is Simple Music? That's like saying haiku is Simple Poetry. Neither one is true. Many times there is a thought that Bluegrass is an old form, If you benchmark it from Flatt and Scruggs joining Bill Monroe it is not even old enough for full Social Security. Monroe's efforts were a radical departure from the antecedant forms.
Well, Haiku is simple, in the sense that the rules are very, very simple. But a thing can be simple and still be difficult to do well. I am reminded of the story of Giotto and the perfect circle...
Allen, I have a feeling the poem was inspired by Ricky's latest non-bluegrass release, "Mosaic." I haven't heard it but one of the reviews on Amazon describes it as "Christian Adult-Contemporary," which makes me want to stay far, far away.
mandolirius
Jan-31-2011, 10:21pm
Allen, I have a feeling the poem was inspired by Ricky's latest non-bluegrass release, "Mosaic." I haven't heard it but one of the reviews on Amazon describes it as "Christian Adult-Contemporary," which makes me want to stay far, far away.
Me too, but CAC is one of the fastest-growing radio formats and there is a lot of demand for it.
allenhopkins
Jan-31-2011, 10:43pm
Well, my take on the poem, is that it's supposed to be Jesus speaking to Ricky Skaggs; don't think Monroe would claim to have "a voice like Ralph Stanley but deeper down darker." And of course Skaggs has been singing gospel and proselytizing from the stage for quite a while. If my "analysis" is right, Scafidi's poem could well be an "answer" to Mosaic.
I do contrast "contemporary Christian" music unfavorably with the older hymns, spirituals and gospel songs, some of which I've been playing since childhood in a Methodist church choir. There can be a smoothness and forgettability about the new stuff, IMHO. When writers like Gillian Welch still compose songs like By the Mark Where the Nails Have Been, there's still the potential to write stark, emotional, memorable sacred songs.
Ivan Kelsall
Feb-01-2011, 2:33am
Quote from Allen - "There can be a smoothness and forgettability about the new stuff....". How true about so much 'new stuff' of all sorts,not just music. 'Made for the masses, not for the memory' is how i'd put it. I do agree with you about song writers such as Gillian Welch & i'd add one of my personal favourite song writers,Tim O'Brien. Really top notch lyricists are few & far between,but when they do emerge,they write wonderful,memorable songs. I believe a certain W.S.Monroe to have been one of those gifted folk. I can name more songs by him than any other Bluegrass lyricist & i'd bet we all can,
Ivan;):mandosmiley:
Fretbear
Feb-08-2011, 3:42am
I keep my "Don't Cheat In Our Hometown" LP just so I can admire his hair on the cover
Hair; what about the eye-liner?
Willie Poole
Feb-08-2011, 11:04am
Ivan, Monroe bought some songs and then listed his name as the writer, off hand I don`t remember them but it seemed to be the way things were in those days.....A few of them were songs that were writen by a black man that Monroe was a friend of....That don`t bother me any, just thought I would throw that into this discussion, Jimmy Martin did that to as I recall hearing somwhere along the way.....
Willie
Rex Hart
Feb-08-2011, 1:38pm
Has anyone heard Ricky's new "Mosaic" album? It is really,really, good. Beatle harmony and melody set to a mostly acoustical background. No, not bluegrass, but much more interesting than some of his recent "bluegrass" offerings. And this coming from a bluegrasser (me). :disbelief:
Ivan Kelsall
Feb-10-2011, 1:34am
Willie - That sort of thing seemed to be pretty common back then,in most forms of music. One of the most famous examples that i can think of, is that of my all time favourite 'rocker',Buddy Holly. Norman Petty who was Buddy's manager,insisted that his name was listed along with Buddy's as co-writer of the many songs that Buddy wrote & he made a lot of money from it. At the time of Buddy's death,there was a law suit pending re.who's money it really was. Also at that time,Buddy Holly was so strapped for cash,that he undertook the tour that lead to his untimely death.
To get back to Mr Skaggs - I like Ricky's hardcore Bluegrass stuff when he does it. It may not have the 'authentic,' 'original' sound like back in the early days,but neither do so many other bands who've drifted even further from the Bluegrass shore,but who still make me sit up & take notice ie.''The Infamous Stringdusters''. My only beef with RS,is that i wish he'd make up his mind what he wishes to be, a 100 % Bluegrass artiste or a 'jack of all trades'. Before anybody chips in,i KNOW that these guys have to earn a living,but so do many other bands who stick to one style.
I'll pick & choose which recordings by Ricky Skaggs i buy. If it's Bluegrass i'll buy it,if it's not, i won't.I just think that when he & Kentucky Thunder make a Bluegrass album (even in RS's style),they're usually great (IMHO) & i'm waiting for the next one already,
Ivan:cool: