Bringing up the E string

[Rick Lindstrom]

To make what could be a really long story short-

My newly built A model has been strung up in the white for several months now, and I've been playing it in. The E string course is noticeably weaker in volume and presence than the other courses (which are quite good actually), and I'm looking for advice on ways to bring the E into better balance, working from the outside while it's still in the white and I can fool around with a little graduation and what not. Presently strung with J74 strings.

All suggestions appreciated.

Rick

[Dfyngravity]

Has it always been weak? How many times have you changed the strings? Sometimes the strings can be dead, even when new. Have you checked the nut and bridge slots to make sure the strings are seated good?

As far as graduating the top, I am sure some of the builders with chime in here.

[billhay4]

I'm surprised no one has offered suggestions and I'm going to disappoint in this regard. However, I'd start with the strings and setup before I considered gradation changes in the top. Especially since the other strings sound good.
Bill

[sunburst]

To some extent, removing wood from the top and/or back is a way to bring out more response in the lower registers, but a good E string seems to rely, at least partly, on having enough mass in the top. Since you can't add wood in the white, only remove wood, more top mass is not a potential solution, and I don't really know what is... other than making sure your bridge is of good quality and well fit to the top. What is your top wood and how thick is it?

[Rick Lindstrom]

John-

I think the top is red spruce from Old Standard. At least, it's whatever native spruce from the Appalachians that those good folk suggested for someone making a first mandolin. It's an A-style built following the Siminoff F-5 plans with the points and scroll drafted off and a headstock shape of my own design. I followed Siminoff's dimensions fairly closely for most things. I also spent time studying measurements of final plate thicknesses from various Loar F-5's and tried to approximate them on average. I didn't get too wrapped up in precise graduation because, as someone making a first mandolin, I wouldn't have had a clue whether the changes were making improvements, or doing harm. I figured close enough was good for a first effort where one really is just learning the mechanics of the process anyway. With the exception of the E string not having as much presence as the other strings, I'd have to say it turned out well and I'm happy with it, especially for a first attempt.

I've gotten off track here :).

The bridge is well fit as far as I can see, but is nothing special- one of the standard style ebony adjustable ones from Stew Mac. Since the E string is weak no matter whether it's played open or fretted, I'm not suspecting a problem at the nut, but do intend to revisit the slots in the bridge saddle to make sure they're properly fit and angled.

Rick


To some extent, removing wood from the top and/or back is a way to bring out more response in the lower registers, but a good E string seems to rely, at least partly, on having enough mass in the top. Since you can't add wood in the white, only remove wood, more top mass is not a potential solution, and I don't really know what is... other than making sure your bridge is of good quality and well fit to the top. What is your top wood and how thick is it?

[Willie Poole]

I seen it posted on here sometime ago that increasing the F hole size on the lower side of the top will increase the volumne of the high notes...In other words it will make the instrument sound more treble.....Someone surely can let us know if this is correct..I can`t really say because I have never tried it and compared what it was before....Willie

[sunburst]

The f-holes are not very involved in the treble notes. High notes radiate from the outside of the instrument more than from the air within and from air fluctuation at the f-holes. I don't think you can improve treble response by messing with the f-holes.

[SternART]

You could try raising the action a bit on the treble side......or after that, trying a stiffer E string, I'd use one out of a set of J75's, it is a bit thicker. I have an instrument that likes a split set, to bring out the E string to balance with the others. YMMV but worth a try.

[otherhobby]

ive had the same problem on a kit i built and went back to the nut and bridge . ended up refiling to get what i wanted. it took a little time but ended up making the diference

[Michael Lewis]

It is possible the mandolin just needs to be exercised vigorously for more time. Less than a year old, it is still learning how to move.

[George Roberts]

To some extent, removing wood from the top and/or back is a way to bring out more response in the lower registers, but a good E string seems to rely, at least partly, on having enough mass in the top. Since you can't add wood in the white, only remove wood, more top mass is not a potential solution, and I don't really know what is... other than making sure your bridge is of good quality and well fit to the top. What is your top wood and how thick is it?

Since the instrument is still in the white, would finish add enough mass to affect the volume of the E string?
George

[Rick Lindstrom]

The experts may have a different take on this, but I doubt that I'll be putting enough finish on it to matter. Since the instrument is for me, I plan to just wipe a few coats of shellac on it and leave it at that. Not much protection, I know, but easy to repair and touch up if necessary. As it is, I've been using it in the white for almost six months an am not really motivated to put a finish on it at all. Time will tell. :)

Rick


Since the instrument is still in the white, would finish add enough mass to affect the volume of the E string?
George

[Rick Lindstrom]

You old-timers are going to be laughing at me- but go easy- it's my first mando :)

Symptom was the E string being a little weak or muted. I finally went back and carefully recut the E string slots in the bridge saddle and made sure the string break was at the front edge of the bridge (the side closest to the fingerboard). The difference was dramatic- strings are balanced and the E string now has cut and volume. Oh happy day!

I'm sure now that I'll check out all of the saddle slots and make sure they are absolutely correct. The sad and sorry part is that I knew what to do, but was in a bit of a hurry when I cut the slots and didn't get it right. My bad. It's really the same as cutting the slots in a nut at the proper angle, and I've done that many times before this.

If there's a moral to this story, it just confirms the fact that a proper setup is really crucial to getting the most out of a mando.

I'm so happy now that I might even build another <LOL>

Rick

[resophil]

In order to bring up the E string properly, you have to start when it's just a little e string. Love it, care for it, and take it to church and Sunday school every week! Demonstrate to it that it can come to you with any problem it has, and you will be ready to listen and give support. Give discipline in measured and loving doses!

That's the way to bring up an E string properly!

[strings777]

In order to bring up the E string properly, you have to start when it's just a little e string. Love it, care for it, and take it to church and Sunday school every week! Demonstrate to it that it can come to you with any problem it has, and you will be ready to listen and give support. Give discipline in measured and loving doses!

That's the way to bring up an E string properly!

That is some very good advice, but tell me one thing resophil, how did you know my son's name is E String? :disbelief:

[Fran]

If there's a moral to this story, it just confirms the fact that a proper setup is really crucial to getting the most out of a mando.

The bridge is definitely a *very* important component of a mandolin and similar instruments. Glad you got this issue resolved!