Intonation problem???

[smokey08]

just like to have some hints as to what's happening to my mandolin re.tuning-i have a rather expensive Morgan. From day one i've had problems with correct tuning-i can tune it using a tuner or online tuner but when i check the tuning at the 7th fret-strings G down to E just dont match each other-i've tried adjusting the bridge close to the fretboard on the treble side and neare on the bass but still can't get correct tuning as per 7th fret tuning-have never checked the truss rod but could this affect proper tuning-i'm assuming if you can tune your mandolin using a tuner than each string should check out properly on 7th fret-am i correct-i need help.

[MikeEdgerton]

It's not the truss rod, leave it alone. It's either the placement of the bridge, the orientation of the bridge top, or the placement of the frets. I seriously doubt it's the frets. Most likely it's one of the first two. You need to get it to someone that can set it up for you. What city and state are you in?

[Markus]

You are right, there should not be an intonation problem.

I'd follow Mike's advice.

Don't mess with the truss rod. If that's an issue, a good setup tech can safely adjust that as well as do any changes to the bridge which will likely be needed as well. Truss rods are not a DIY adjustment.

Given mandolins have floating bridges, I'd bet the bridge placement or setup is the issue. To get that in place and adjusted properly for good playability - a mando repair guy works wonders.

While it's hard earned money, having a mando setup person [not the guitar guy] work on it is money well spent if it makes the instrument sound right. I'd ask them for pointers if this happens again, as well as search online ... but unless you're starting with something nearly perfect and have had some good tips about it from an expert - my personal experience says DIY instrument repair does more harm than good.

Down the road, maybe this is something you can tackle. But until you're starting from a good place, I'd rely on the professionals.

[EdHanrahan]

While less likely than the bridge issues noted above, if the action at the nut is too high (meaning higher string clearance at the first fret than there is one fret below any fretted note), then the "additional" stretching of the string when fretting the 7th will throw off the tuning.

The main symptom of a too-high nut, because of the additional stretching to reach the fretboard, is higher effort required at the first fret than elsewhere, that then diminishes as you move up the neck. (Moving further from the nut reduces the difference between any "additional" stretching & effort and the "standard" amount that is designed in, if the nut were properly slotted).

Unfortunately, too-high nut slots are not uncommon as delivered from most factories, that usually expect the seller to do the final set-up.

Hope this isn't too incomprehensible!

[Charlieshafer]

Ed might have hit a home run with the too-high nut issue. We've seen folks come to sessions quite often with this problem, even with nicer pac-rim instruments.

[smokey08]

well if the nut is too high and that's what's throwing off tuning at the 7th fret-how do one fix it???? i can tune it usingan elec. tuner but check it at the 7th fret and it's off. i've even tried moving the bridge then it doesn't get any better-very frustrating.

[Charlieshafer]

Well, Mike's comments above were the way to go, then, which is to get it to a good luthier or set-up guy to get it all right for you. If you let the forum know where you are, there are sure to be recommendations that follow.

[Big Joe]

It sounds like your mandolin just needs a good setup. Everything gets set properly for the optimal performance of that mandolin and it should play intonated properly (as much as mandolins do) and will tune properly. Most new mandolins need a good setup before everything is just right. Most stores don't or can't do it right.

[Fran]

Take a ruler and measure the distance between the nut and the 12th fret. It must be the same exact distance between the 12th fret and the bridge. The 7th fret method does not guarantee the tuning! The tuner tells you when each string is at the correct note. What counts is the final result. Do the chords sound "right"? Then don't use the 7th fret to check strings tuning between them. If you make a slight tuning error on a lower string then it will be carried to the next higher strings, and the E string will be either very sharp or flat. If this doesn't work, try different strings, perhaps some strings with a different gauge. I like D'Addario strings.

[Big Joe]

Even measuring that way will only get you very close. The setting is not exactly so it must be done with a good tuner or a good ear, but that will give you a good starting spot.

[Glassweb]

It was Larry Wexer that hipped me to the genius of a properly set nut many, many years ago. Can't tell you how valuable this is to being a happy mandolin player... If you don't get your nut adjusted you need to get your head examined!

[EdHanrahan]

... if the nut is too high and that's what's throwing off tuning ... how do one fix it????
By digesting Frank Fords "Frets.com" website. It's frequently recommended around here, with good reason!

Here's a problem diagnosis area:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html

And a higher-level overview of nuts & slots in general:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/Technique/Setup/BuzzDiagnosis/NutSlot/nutslot.html

Don't be thrown by (mostly) guitar photos rather than mando; the design logic is identical, just smaller and with more demanding tolerances on mandolins. Hope this helps!