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roguescholar
Oct-21-2004, 8:40am
I love the mandolin...always have.....it perplexes me as to why I waited so long to pick it up in the first place....so I've had my mando fer about a year and some change, trying to teach myself, which is not easy...especially when you don't know anyone who plays, and might be able to give advice....books don't really work well with me, I've tried, and tried, from mel bay to grisman and everything in between...wish I could take lessons, but I have a mortgage to contend with....I've tried to utilize the lessons and tips found on this site with a mild level of success...I've managed to teach myself (more or less) chords, and some scales, but...I don't know it feels like I've platued (sp)....having a real hard time figuring out what to play when, while playing a song...having trouble structuring and arranging....etc....no good at my double stops, or when to use them versus single notes or chords....strumming patterns might be considered questionable....any and all advice on learning, playing, and becoming a better musician would be greatly appreciated....

JimRichter
Oct-21-2004, 9:24am
Best advice I can give anyone--not necessarily from the position as a mandolinist but as a musician in general--is to listen to a lot (and I mean a lot) of the music you want to play and, in particular, the instrument you're playing.

Years ago when I was a rock guitarist (rock in the sense of blues-rock--ZZ Top, SRV, Trower), I decided I wanted to be a true blue blues guitarist in the vein of Freddie King, Hollywood Fats, or Magic Sam. #Although I knew guys who were playing real blues, I never really had any of them show me licks. #More than anything, they clued me into the people to listen to and the albums to get. #I listened to this stuff incessantly--in the car, at work, at home. #I found that over time I truly absorbed the music and began to intuitively know where things go--the appropriate comp for a song, the right turnaround to use, etc. # I obviously had to learn those things (the licks, back-up etc), but I knew how to use them "right" when it came time to use them.

I use the above example because there was a situation where I made a calculated effort to study a certain school of music/playing. #W/ bluegrass, I started playing banjo in my early teens and count the New Grass Revival as probably my favorite band growing up (though I should add the Beatles in there too). #Now some time later, I find myself focusing exclusively on mandolin. #I don't really have to study bluegrass in the way I did straight ahead classic blues, since I already know the music, but I do tend to narrow my listening to certain key mandolinists who I like and wish to emulate to some degree: #Compton, McCoury, Bush, Skaggs, Blake, Monroe. #I never sit down and learn their songs per se, but their albums are in constant rotation in my CD player. #It just makes more sense to me to absorb the spirit of a song before actually trying to learn it. #By the time I sit down to learn it, I find I've already learned it to some degree in my head.

Whew, I've been longwinded. #The best thing you can do is listen as much as you can to the style you want to play. #

Jim

Phantoj
Oct-21-2004, 9:46am
recognize, analyze, deconstruct, accomplish, master...

First, locate an area where you want to do better. Then, figure out a path to take to better yourself in that area... Are your strum patterns lame, for example? Then find some new patterns, or decide to decipher the ones your hear.

Slow everything down until you can accomplish what you want to do. I can play anything if you don't mind hearing it at one beat per minute.

Once you can actually PLAY what you want - and play it correctly, you can start adding speed.

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect...

250sc
Oct-21-2004, 10:26am
You have two great suggestions already, 1.Emmerse yourself in the music. Listen to mandocentric music all the time.(it will sink in) 2. start slowly and lock down the basics. Don't worry about speed and make sure your timing is as steady as possible.

What songs are you currently playing? Can you play the melody without too much trouble? Can you play the chords to the song at tempo.

When you mentioned "having a real hard time figuring out what to play when, while playing a song...having trouble structuring and arranging....etc....no good at my double stops, or when to use them versus single notes or chords...." it sounded to me like you are trying to run before you can walk. You might be less frustrated if you just work on building a list of songs that you can play every day just to get the melody engrained in your mind and in your hands. If you choose some of the standards like 'Whisky before breakfast' 'Old Joe Clark' or 'Bill Chetum' you can find lots of different versions on cd to listen to and each one should show you a different approach to playing the song but you should start off learning a stripped down version just so you can lock it in. You can get past your plateau by just plugging away and learning new songs. I should think that even a beginner can learn at least one new song a month.

Let us know how your comming along. There are lots of talented and helpful people on this site who can help you grow as a musician.

PS. Above all, don't forget this is suppose to be fun. Good luck.

roguescholar
Oct-21-2004, 12:44pm
thanks...those are all great bits of advice...though it may be frustrating, it's always fun...I have been listening to nothing but mandolin based music, sometimes it leaves me more in awe of what the pros are doing....I do have a lifetime to learn, as I don't forsee me ever putting this instrument down...much to the chagrin of my punk rock wife...

Bluegrasstjej
Oct-21-2004, 2:09pm
Get the "Skaggs & Rice" album. It's out on CD now. There you'll hear a pro (Ricky Skaggs) play but there's only the mandolin and a guitar so you'll hear very clearly what he is doing. Simple playing but very nice.

MandoJimbo
Oct-23-2004, 7:56am
A lot of very good advice, but a good teacher can certainly make things a lot easier. There are a lot of weekend workshops all over the country. Great way to get some good advice and have a lot of fun! I'd sure recommend some instruction before you develop some bad habits that you'll have to "unlearn". Just a couple of sessions with a qualified player can really make a more enjoyable experience out of this little instrument.

roguescholar
Oct-23-2004, 8:24am
I'd love to have a teacher, but...$...got that pesky mortgage, still...after teaching myself for the last year and change, odds are I have nothing but bad habits...
learned long black veil and sitting on top of the world over the last few days, but just the basic chop chords for each...

roguescholar
Oct-23-2004, 8:25am
I'd love to have a teacher, but...$...got that pesky mortgage, still...after teaching myself for the last year and change, odds are I have nothing but bad habits...
learned long black veil and sitting on top of the world over the last few days, but just the basic chop chords for each...

roguescholar
Oct-23-2004, 8:29am
I'd love to have a teacher, but...$...got that pesky mortgage, still...after teaching myself for the last year and change, odds are I have nothing but bad habits...
learned long black veil and sitting on top of the world over the last few days, but just the basic chop chords for each...

JenWantstaJam
Oct-23-2004, 9:22am
I don't know how much a lesson costs in the states, but here in Canada I pay $12 a session (30mins). There are teachers who'd take you in for 1 or 2 lessons, you don't have to pay for a year's worth! If you already know the basics, you can cover a lot in 30m. Just go prepared with a list of questions.

MandoJimbo
Oct-24-2004, 8:24am
The best thing my teacher evere did for me was show me where to put the beat... I like a lot of the Irish tunes and had a very difficult time learning the difference between jigs, reels and hornpipes... I got a little help, learned where to put the beat and wahla almost sounded like music?? Now if I could only keep time.. Metronome Challanged...

John Craton
Oct-24-2004, 8:29am
Read through Tips on Becoming a Good Musician (http://www.craton.net/studio/tips.htm). Developing good practice habits from the start is a real plus in any endeavor. Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress!

roguescholar
Nov-01-2004, 9:25pm
well, I dunno how good it sounds per se, but I've been working diligently on one of my favorite tunes (oddly enough I first heard it abuout 7 or 8 years ago, by a hip hop band, spearhead) imagine my happiness and surprise when I realized wayfarin' stranger was a staple of mr. monroe...my strumming patterns are still a bit rough, but I've been trying to play the first verse in a slow chorded rythm, the second in a cross picking (I think)....and the third in single notes and tremelo...I'm hoping to recieve some lessons as a birthday gift, but that isn't for another month...