View Full Version : 1937 Martin w/ "F Scrolls"
65496 I recently bought my first mandolin; A 1937 Martin w/ "F Scrolls." I can't seem to find too much info on the internet about when Martin first started with the 2-15 and what woods were used to create it. Any info y'all could lend would be appreciated. Thanks!
MikeEdgerton
Dec-01-2010, 4:18pm
Built from 1936 to 1954 in the f hole version if I recall. They started the models with oval holes earlier than that. I don't have my book here with me at work. Back and sides were maple, top was spruce. Martin referred to the f holes as f scrolls for some reason known only to them.
Gary Hedrick
Dec-01-2010, 4:37pm
The most fancy model was the 2-30. I bought one from Peter Mix a number of years ago and have sold it. They are very well built and the woods are like Mike says. The 2-30 woods were out of this world in terms of their flame and curl. It played well but just didn't have the "umpf" that I wanted. The f holes are indeed a more "scroll like" shape than the Gibsons are. Gruhn's book has a complete disertation on them. I hope you have fun with it. They are a nice instruments.
allenhopkins
Dec-01-2010, 4:49pm
According to Mike Longworth's Martin Guitars - A History, 1,906 Model 2-15 mandolins were made between 1936 and 1964 (Mike, you're pretty darn close). There was a WWII break in 1943-45 when none were built. Price started at $50 in 1936, ended up at $230 in the 1965 catalog. Spruce top, maple back/sides, ebony fingerboard and bridge, 13 3/4 inch scale. Described as "dark top, golden brown," which seems to jibe with your sunburst. You have one from the second year of manufacture; 60 2-15's were built in 1937 and the catalog price was still $50.
Great info! Also, thanks for citing the sources. Might look to purchase the book mentioned now.
Willie Poole
Dec-01-2010, 10:59pm
Allen, maybe you can answer a question for me....I ran into a mandolin player and he said his F model mandolin was a Martin, I also heard that a fellow in Pa. has an F model Martin....Does you book say anything about these?..
BTW....I was in the AF with Mike Longworth and we had us a three piece band, he was quite a picker, on banjo and guitar....Not at the same time tho...
Willie
Ray(T)
Dec-02-2010, 5:35am
..... Might look to purchase the book mentioned now.
Bear in mind that its a collectors item and second hand copies are like rocking horse droppings. It has been out of print for many years but I have a first edition!!!!
Ray
Jim Garber
Dec-02-2010, 9:05am
Bear in mind that its a collectors item and second hand copies are like rocking horse droppings. It has been out of print for many years but I have a first edition!!!!
Ray
You can buy the new and updated Longworth book in two volumes: Volume 1 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634037854/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0006CIYJ6&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1BBCK54VHKD77QET1PY2) and volume 2 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1423439821/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0006CIYJ6&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1BBCK54VHKD77QET1PY2) Highly recommended.
allenhopkins
Dec-02-2010, 9:36am
Allen, maybe you can answer a question for me....I ran into a mandolin player and he said his F model mandolin was a Martin, I also heard that a fellow in Pa. has an F model Martin....Does you book say anything about these?..
Well, Martin has made some custom order instruments, and there are Martin instruments (like the harp mandolin (http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/90U-4930.htm)) that don't show up in Longworth's book; they were "one-ofs" or very limited production, and never made their catalogs. Longworth documents the three two-point model mandolins Martin made, the Style 20 round-hole and the Style 2-20 and 2-30 f-hole instruments, but says nothing of an F-model scroll-&-points instrument. If there are Martin F-models, they almost certainly were custom orders, or "employee Martins"; as you know, Martin has had a practice of letting its employees build instruments for their own use, which are never marked with the "Martin" name. Longworth does list, under "Instruments Made By Martin For Other Firms" (Chapter VII), several companies for whom Martin made mandolins, but all the instruments listed are variations on the standard Martin bowl-back or canted-top mandolins. Apparently Martin didn't make carved-top mandolins for other firms, or at least there's no record thereof.
If an F-model Martin does exist, Pennsylvania would be a likely place to find it, especially if it were an "employee" instrument. I am skeptical, however, and would need to learn that a Martin expert had examined the mandolin(s) and agreed that they showed characteristic Martin workmanship.
Interesting that you knew the late Mike Longworth. I understand that the "L-5" inlaid into the fingerboard of Lester Flatt's D-28, indicated that it was the fifth guitar Longworth had upgraded with D-45 appointments.
MikeEdgerton
Dec-02-2010, 10:05am
The F model Martin was probably an import with one of the brand names Martin owned on it (not Martin).
Check out this (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?58429-1980-s-Vega-Mandolin-information) thread.
Martin imported mandolins in the F style that were branded Vega.
allenhopkins
Dec-02-2010, 10:22am
Martin also imported and sold Sigma mandolins, and I gather some were F-models. They weren't built by Martin, but I've heard some Sigma owners and/or dealers talk about "Martin Sigma" instruments, so it can get a bit confusing -- like "Guild Madeira" or "Gibson Epiphone."
MikeEdgerton
Dec-02-2010, 10:25am
I was having a senior moment and coun't remember the Sigma brand name. Yes, that's another possibility. Either way, Martin imported them. They are mentioned in this (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?22106-Sigma-Mandolin-by-CF-Martin) thread.
8ch(pl)
Dec-02-2010, 11:19am
This mandolin is a 2-15 by the look of it. they were made into the '60s, i played a 1962 version and I liked it.
delsbrother
Dec-02-2010, 12:36pm
I think there were also F model guitars, but they weren't scroll bodied like mandolins.
Willie Poole
Dec-02-2010, 1:09pm
At the time this fellow told me he was playing an "Old Martin" I suspected that he was mistaken but the instrument appeared to be an older model...He probably meant to say "Old Gibson" but ....I will tell you who it is and maybe that will clear it up some...He is the father and leader of the band "Goldrush"...I see them every year in Florida and this year I will pin him down and make sure he is telling it like it is....
Willie Poole
Dec-02-2010, 1:23pm
Allen....
I have a guitar that is inlaid with the D-45 hexagon blocks and the words "C.F. Martin" inlaid on the peg head, Mike L. didn`t do the job but he did furnish me the "used" blocks and letters that he said came from a junked guitar....I went to Martin`s factory a few times to visit with him in the late 70`s and 80`s but each time I went he wasn`t around, I should have made an appointment....He was a very knowledgable fellow and he loved to dig up info about old instruments, not just Martins....I am going to check at our library and see if they have a copy of his book, they have just about every other bluegrass book.....
Thanks to all for the info, I usually can count on a lot of Cafe people to answer all of my questions...I find it easier to ask them on here than to do the research myself, what did we ever do without computers?
Willie
MikeEdgerton
Dec-02-2010, 1:24pm
Well, after the first dozen or so bands named Goldrush I found using Google I decided to let you go ahead and check it out. :cool:
Willie Poole
Dec-02-2010, 1:28pm
I`m sorry Mike...it is "Goldwing", My boo-boo...I will check it out though, thanks....Willie
allenhopkins
Dec-02-2010, 4:51pm
I was having a senior moment and coun't remember the Sigma brand name.
Took me awhile to remember it as well. When the Sigmas first appeared (in the '70's?), they were a "big deal," "made to Martin specifications and inspected at our Nazareth PA facility." I thought they were an attempt to counter the incredibly life-like Takamine Martin copies that were proliferating at that time. For some reason Sigmas never seemed to really catch on. Then there were "'Martin' Shenandoah" instruments, which started out partially made in Japan and finished in Nazareth, and ended up totally Japanese-made. Now Martin builds guitars out of Formica and paints Felix the Cat on the top -- and calls them "Martins." Hey, hey, don't get me started...
allenhopkins
Dec-02-2010, 5:11pm
I`m sorry Mike...it is "Goldwing", My boo-boo...I will check it out though, thanks....Willie
Probably Goldwing Express (http://goldwingexpress.net/) from Oklahoma, father and three sons. The sons, who are half-Native-American, often perform in feathered headdresses. I looked at several of their videos but can't make out the brand of mandolin that the father's playing. In the recent vids, it seems to be a blacktop. Since "dad" never takes a break that I can see, the camera lingers on the banjo and guitar, and neglects the mandolin.
Willie Poole
Dec-02-2010, 7:24pm
I checked out GWE web site and not much there either.....I`ll see them in Auburndale Fla in March, thats where I go for the winter....And soon will heading that way....
MikeEdgerton
Dec-02-2010, 7:37pm
He's playing a Gibson.
Goldwing Express (http://www.bluegrassjournal.com/2010/01/20/goldwing-express-coming-to-spirit-of-the-suwannee-music-park/)
By the way, this mandolin is now in the classifieds at two to three times the value of the mandolin. I suspect we'll be closing this thread.
Recent sale on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/1940s-Martin-Mandolin-w-case-/190471583714?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c58fdb7e2)
mrmando
Dec-02-2010, 7:57pm
Well, now the 2-15 is in the Classifieds at, forgive me, a higher price than I've ever seen a 2-15 sell for.
This very mandolin, "F scrolls" and all, was on the Dallas CL, at the same price, just after Thanksgiving.
I see Mike has beaten me to the punch here.
The Goldwing Express mando looks like an F5G.