View Full Version : B&G Victoria (aka Leland Brilliantone) Mandola
I just picked this up the other day on craigslist for $100 and was pleased to find that it was in fact a mandola (and not a mandolin per the description). I asked about this in this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?67324-First-Post-My-lineup-of-5) which shows my other mandos as well. However, I am really curious as to what kind of history I can dig up on this one in particular, so per the request of brunello97 I have taken a few more pics and attached them below. I figured it was worth putting in it's own post for the sake of reference.
Jim Gardner pointed out that it resembles the Leland Brilliantone from Lyon & Healy, and sure enough, a google search yields results that back up that assertion.
I've learned a lot about it since joining these forums yesterday! Anyone else have any tidbits of wisdom they might be able to share? Judging from info I could find on B&G online I would estimate that it was made sometime between 1905 - 1915. Does that sound about right? There is no serial on the inside, and no date of manufacture.
brunello97
Nov-14-2010, 9:16pm
Thanks for the added pictures. It is a nice looking instrument. Seeing these, I am going to play the doubting Thomas here. Do you have some pictures of the Leland mandolas you are comping yours to? I have two Leland mandolins (one a labeled Brilliantone and one a Ditson labeled mandolin that actually is identical.) There are some similarities here but to my eye this does not appear to be a Leland. The body shape, soundhole shape and headstock shape are all quite different. A tailpiece extension is a common feature on Leland mandolins, though conceivably they were left off of mandolas. B+J had business relationships with SS Stewart and other east coast companies. If I had to guess the provenance of yours I would look that way. Of course I am wrong often enough, but if you have some images that confirm your match it would be helpful to see them.
Mick
Jim Garber
Nov-14-2010, 10:10pm
Mick: I am not sure what you mean by "tailpiece extension". Now that I see the headstock in closeup is does have a cutout like Vega's but many mandolins had that. It still looks pretty close to Leland to me: pickguard shape, general shape of headstock and use of binding. Not conclusive but possible IMHO.
jnigh
Nov-14-2010, 10:14pm
Thanks... I can't wait for my strings to arrive so I can see how she plays. I really appreciate the analysis. I'll look into the SS Steward connection for sure. The main thing that convinced me that it's the same as a Leland is Jim Garber's comments related to his two Lelands, and also the Lyon Healy catalog page (that was actually originally posted here by Jim as well). The Tenor Mando just really looks to be a dead-ringer. What do you think?
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk420/iinigma7/mando/leland-1.jpg
Jim Garber
Nov-14-2010, 10:23pm
BTW, Jeremy, what is the scale length of this mandola?
jnigh
Nov-14-2010, 10:32pm
BTW, Jeremy, what is the scale length of this mandola?
The scale length is 16.5" (measuring bridge to nut).
bratsche
Nov-14-2010, 10:39pm
Dang, I've got nothing to add but to say that is just gorgeous!
(Wipes drool from chin.) :disbelief:
bratsche
brunello97
Nov-14-2010, 10:49pm
Sorry, I meant fretboard extension.....Jeremy thanks for the Leland ad page, that is great. I don't know, you guys, I'm not seeing it. Close but not close enough for me. I could be wrong-as I often am. The B+J instruments I have in my files are such a mish mash of styles that they could have been from anywhere.
I wonder if the mandolas and mandocellos might have been made in a different shop for Leland/L+H (or B+J) than the mandolins. You would think they would have more of a family resemblance than they appear here. Martin and Gibson mandolas, for instance, look like Martins and Gibsons. The mandola shape is so (relatively) clunky compared to the other two instruments in the set. The recurve in the mandolin and 'cello is an appealing feature.
Nonetheless, forgive me if I am being a wet blanket. I'll bet it is going to sound quite nice when strung up.
Mick
Doh. Jeremy I just realized I had this Leland catalog page in my files. I could have just looked for myself.....
Jim Garber
Nov-14-2010, 11:02pm
Hey, I have that page in my files, too!! :)
As I said, B&J was a wholesaler and had other firms make instruments for them. I have more bowlback examples than flatbacks, but there are some that look like L&H products, so maybe it is not so far-fetched?
bratsche
Nov-14-2010, 11:06pm
The mandola shape is so (relatively) clunky compared to the other two instruments in the set. The recurve in the mandolin and 'cello is an appealing feature.
Haha.. Clunky? I see things just the opposite way, personally. But then, I am a big fan of the more almond shape. De gustibus, and all that...
:))
bratsche
MandoNicity
Nov-14-2010, 11:11pm
Whatever it is it looks really cool! Please post how she sounds when you string 'er up.
JR
jnigh
Nov-14-2010, 11:29pm
Well, I do very much appreciate the detective work and kind words everyone. I will indeed post a video of sorts once I get some strings.
And while I respect brunello's opinion in regards to the recurve, I have to stick with my fellow violist bratsche on this one. I too prefer the almond shape. For most of the music I'll be playing it needs to be that shape so I can sit behind a book of 500 year old music and at least "kind of" look like this guy (http://www.klassiskgitar.net/Rombouts,%20Theodor%20%281597-1637%29%20-%20Lute%20Player,%20ca%201620.jpg)! :)
We may never really know what it is, but now the question is out there, so hopefully someone will be able to say one way or the other for certain. It's been great learning a bit of obscure history from you folks though... y'all know your stuff, that's for sure. I can tell I'm going to spend a lot of time on these boards just taking it all in.
brunello97
Nov-15-2010, 12:32am
Don't get me wrong gentleman, I love almonds and also almond-shaped mandolins (and have too many of them) albeit prepared properly:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latte_di_mandorla
Perhaps the almond-paste-up artists for the L+H catalog were a bit heavy handed with their scissors resulting in a rather droopy almond compared with the actually instrument. Your B+J actually has some gentle recurve at the neck that the catalog instrument image is missing--perhaps on the cutting room floor. "This Guy" also has a very nicely shaped instrument.
Mick
Jim Garber
Nov-15-2010, 7:53am
That Leland mandola I posted on the other thread dopes have that recurve. I would never depend on catalog cuts for authentification.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=64803&d=1289759104
Jim Garber
Nov-15-2010, 8:09am
Oh, BTW the company is called B&J. B&G makes pickles.
Yeah if you held my mandola up to Jim's it would seem like the only difference would be the cutout area in my headstock.
Oh, BTW the company is called B&J. B&G makes pickles.
Oops. If a mods would kindly fix that I'd be much obliged.
In other news though, I just got a notice that the mandola strings I ordered from Musician's Friend are back ordered. Bummer.
Jim Garber
Nov-15-2010, 3:12pm
What brand of strings did you order? MF prob doesn't have a great selection. I would order from Juststrings.com (http://www.juststrings.com) or Elderly (http://www.elderly.com).
I was going to give the D'Addario FT76 Flat Top Phosphorus Bronze strings (http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/D%27Addario-FT76-Flat-Top-PB-Mandola-String-Set?sku=100124) a shot. They seem to play really smoothly. I usually play bluegrass/jazz style music on my mandolin, but with the mandola I'd like to play more classical pieces.
Since they're backordered, I'll probably just cancel the order and get something from one of the places you mentioned. Can you recommend a good set? I'm all ears.
Jim Garber
Nov-15-2010, 10:28pm
I don't know if they are in stock but they are less expensive at juststrings.com (http://www.juststrings.com/dad-ft76.html). Personally, I have never used them.
Here are the choices for mandola (http://www.juststrings.com/mandola.html).
bratsche
Nov-16-2010, 1:11am
I like Thomastik 164s (http://elderly.com/accessories/items/164.htm) (avail. from Elderly) the best of anything I've tried. They look expensive, but are great for classical, have incredible longevity, and really aren't all that expensive when you think of what viola strings cost. JustStrings doesn't carry 'em, though.
bratsche
Jim Garber
Nov-16-2010, 8:23am
Just a caveat on European mandola strings: make sure that the intended tuning is CGDA. In Europe the general default term for mandola refers to what we in the US call an active mandolin the the tuning is one octave below a mandolin. The Elderly set is listed as the correct alto mandola tuning. Others may vary.
jnigh
Nov-16-2010, 10:40am
Good stuff. I'll give the 164s a try... sounds like the perfect set for what I want them for. Thanks everyone.
lenf12
Nov-16-2010, 1:03pm
Good stuff. I'll give the 164s a try... sounds like the perfect set for what I want them for. Thanks everyone.
That's most likely a very good and prudent choice. I love the D'Addario FT-76 strings on my Duff H-5 'dola but it's construction is perhaps more "robust" than your flat top/back. Your scale length is a bit longer as well which would require more string tension to tune up to pitch. The TI's should work just fine for you. Congratulations on your beautiful mandola!!
Len B.
Clearwater, FL