Played a mandolin for the first time!

[Cue Zephyr]

Howdy folks!

I'm really happy now. I went to the mandolin-sepcialist store not far from here. Somebody linked me to the website, e-mailed him and visited today.

There were abot 30-50 mandolins hanging in there, including Kentucky (which I was most interested in), Collings and Weber. I talked to him a bit about what I was interested in, asked a lot of questions and talked some more. He ended up giving me a Kentucky KM-550 to try. He didn't have the KM-505.

There were a lot of surprises - the mando was a lot smaller than I initally thought (yeah, I hadn't seen one ever in my life). The neck was a lot narrower than I thought it would be, and the strings were a bit harder to fret as well. I was constantly having a fight with the frets... first I couldn't find the right frets and then I kept on fretting right on top of the fret instead of right behind it (bad coordination). More importantly though, it sounded a lot sweeter than I imagined.
The next mando he handed me was a KM-160 (I think, might have been a 250 as well). While I was noodling with it he showed me an old folk-style mandolin - it was a very old but sweet sounding Martin. He also demonstrated how there is no chop in them compared to the F-hole ones.

Anyhow, with the cheaper KM I immediately noticed that the sound was less deep, bit more boxy and not as pretty in the highs.
I quickly put it back and picked up the 550 again. It was a tidbit more playable too (I'd say it was well set-up).
The guy also helped me do some chords, play the G major scale on the two wound strings (do we call 'em 4 and 3?) explained how chopping was done, how the sweetest tone can be achieved and how to fret. The frets were really ticking me off, I kept on fretting too high because I couldn't get used to the frets being so close together in such a short time. I was also quite blown away with the amount of volume I could pull out of it at any given moment.

I also asked about the playing posture. Apparently the way I held it from the start was in fact a correct way, according to him it was the classical posture. I do think it's wrong thogh - with the KM's V-shape neck it doesn't really want to work.

More I learned was that the F-style mandolins have more lows due to the different construction, and that the scroll is actually part of it.

To top it off he found the Kentucky mandolins to be the best at their price point.

So, I have to save a few bucks and get me a nice Kentucky!

CZ

[Brent Hutto]

In my limited experience, I'd say anyone with a KM-505 or KM-550 as their first mandolin would be fortunate to have it.

Now that you've felt what fretting a mandolin is like, you see why we were saying that a bad setup can be a real killer!

[catmandu2]

Congrats on the epiphany, CZ. I listened to your music in the link you provided, and IMO your music will be most excellent with the addition of a mandolin. Cheers!

[Rick Cadger]

In my limited experience, I'd say anyone with a KM-505 or KM-550 as their first mandolin would be fortunate to have it.

Now that you've felt what fretting a mandolin is like, you see why we were saying that a bad setup can be a real killer!

^ What Brent said. :)

[Jim DeSalvio]

CZ,

Keep us posted on your journey!

[Cue Zephyr]

Yes Brent, you are absolutely right. I have yet to find out how the mando callouses differ from guitar callouses, but I'll find out soon enough. And the 550 indeed sounded wonderful. I'm still wondering how the 505 sounds though. Man in the shop expected it to sound very close to the 550.

catmandu2,
Yeah, that's precisely what I was thinking!

desalj,
Will do!

[peterleyenaar]

Mike Marshal has a nice video with playing tips on the mandolin, to get you started , another on the D'addario website is
Tim O'Brien

http://www.daddario.com/DADMediaDetail.Page?ActiveId=2921&MediaId=352

Have fun

[Cue Zephyr]

Oh my that was great! I like his style of teaching. Thank you very much!

[Cue Zephyr]

Zach at The Mandolin Store just replied to my question regarding the KM-505 and the KM-550. According to him the 505 is a better instrument versus the 550 being a 'prettier' instrument.

[Brent Hutto]

A different dealer told me when it comes right down to it, whichever one you can find in stock at the time ('550 vs. '505) will play and sound pretty similar to the other one. Given that a KM-505 is one of the few mandolins I've actually played in person that's the one I'd pick if I had a choice.

But I probably couldn't tell the difference...even my "The Loar" LM-400 seemed an awful lot like the KM-505 under my hack fingers! No matter what I play it all tends to sound like me. And I'm not saying that's necessarily a good thing.

[Markus]

That's a great starter mandolin.

Did you have a chance to play the Collings or one of the higher end mandolins? I know you're not considering one, but as you've never had a mandolin in your hands - I think it's always good to know what an `amazing' instrument plays and sounds like when I consider my much cheaper purchase.

Your description of the sound + first fretting impressions on a small neck are well stated ... the one thing that I find about mandolins out of my current price range is their power. It's hard to explain, but there's a purity of tone that punches the sound through in the mix. My impression - YMMV - but at very least to for the experience of an instrument that `plays like a dream, easy as butter' I think it's worth playing one for a few minutes.

Not to say you're going to find the frets any farther apart or the string spacing easier ... but I bet if you play a Collings or such, your Kentucky, then a cheaper instrument - you'll see the continuum of quality, and realize what you're looking at is quite nice.

--

It's been fun reading your threads, your excitement comes through in your posts and I find myself smiling while reading your threads.

While you initiallty think that mandolin is so small - after upgrading mandolins in August I've rarely touched my guitar. Now when I pick it up, the body seems awkwardly large and the space between each fret seems impractically far to do much with. I feel like I'm hugging a bear when I strap it on and play it - my mandolin feels more like holding a baby.


The guy also helped me do some chords, play the G major scale on the two wound strings (do we call 'em 4 and 3?) explained how chopping was done, how the sweetest tone can be achieved and how to fret. The frets were really ticking me off, I kept on fretting too high because I couldn't get used to the frets being so close together in such a short time. I was also quite blown away with the amount of volume I could pull out of it at any given moment.

My wife has stated repeatedly that my mandolin is much louder when I practice than a guitar [unless I'm banging out loud guitar chords constantly]. Sometimes the mandolin feels like thunder when I'm in a crowded jam and hitting chop chords, blasting sound out of such a tiny little wood box - it can be a wonder.

As for how to refer to the strings - by note name (E A D G ... E highest, G lowest) seems most common. Plus it gives you four notes you sight read right out of the gate. Eliminates any possible confusion, as your 1 may be my 4.

[Steve Ostrander]

More I learned was that the F-style mandolins have more lows due to the different construction, and that the scroll is actually part of it.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement, but some will argue that you have to have the scroll to play Bluegrass. I understand the tradition, and I like a good scroll as well as anybody, but to me, a good sounding mandolin is a good sounding mandolin, regardless of A or F-style.

In your price range you will get more mandolin for your $$ in an A-style. The km505 is a good mandolin for the money and a better than average starter instrument. They are a little scarce right now, however.

[Cheryl Watson]

Cue, so great to hear your journey with mandolins! It does feel weird at first, compared to guitar. This video may help a bit to start along with the videos someone else recommended with Mike Marshall.

~ Cheryl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1Z0Fcfo6o

[Cue Zephyr]

Brent,
Well, the 505 is a few bucks less, here at least.
I was curious about the LM-400 as well but I haven't asked about this brand (dang, I knew I forgot something!).
I probably can't tell the difference either.

Markus,
No, I didn't have the heart to ask if I could try it. The one time I only ever got to play an expensive instrument was in a guitar shop. I started with a 900something euro guitar, and the man in the shop kept on handing me guitars that I might like. He ended up giving me a guitar worth nearly 3000 euros. It gave me a taste of perfection.

I can see how the guitar feels big after playing a lot of mandolin - it's just something you get used to.

And I also heard with my own ears how a mandolin could easily overpower the guitar. I do have to state that I have a reasonably quiet guitar (Taylor), and that Kentucky was loud as hell when I played only a teensy bit harder.

About the strings - I just applied the same method as on guitar. The high E being 1 and the low E being 6. A lower string like on a 7 or 8 string would then automatically become the 7th or the 8th string (as there are no guitars that have an added string tuned higher than the high E).

Steve,
It's not really the scroll itself, it's the difference in construction that the scroll is part of. The man in the shop explained to me that the top has a larger length to vibrate along with the F-style mandolins.
About my price range, you are right - it's the same as what he told me. Similarly priced F-style mandolins compared to A-styles are always inferior because the scroll is more difficult to construct. It's exactly so with acoustic guitars and cutaways.


cwtwang,
Thank you!
I realized I knew a song with Mike Marshall. It is named 'Dolphins' and it was re-arranged for guitar by Andy McKee and Don Ross. Two of my most favorite fingerstyle guitarists.

[Stamper]

Hey CZ,

I've got a feeling, given your enthusiasm and experience with the guitar, that you're going to grow really, really fast with the mandolin. If you're hanging in the zone with Andy McKee, we'll that's just saying something. Markus's point about guitars post-mando feeling like a hugging a bear, man, ditto! I try to play guitar and mandolin now each day, to translate whatever I'm working on between both instruments, and the mando always feels more fitted into my frame, though I wouldn't have thought that possible when I started.

[Douglas McMullin]

It's not really the scroll itself, it's the difference in construction that the scroll is part of. The man in the shop explained to me that the top has a larger length to vibrate along with the F-style mandolins.

If you do some searching here, I think you will find that most builders and players will disagree with this statement. For the most part, a comparable A & F have the same sized sound chamber and the same amount of surface to vibrate (the scroll and points are solid). An a F certainly requires more time to build, hence the cost, but that doesn't likely equate to any difference in sound when compared to an A with similar woods and construction.

[Mandolin Mick]

In my opinion, whether or not it has a scroll is not the issue ... but, whether the sound holes are oval or ff makes a big difference in tone! The scroll is more cosmetic and an expensive strap holder, but I'm all for them! :mandosmiley:

[Cue Zephyr]

@Stamper
Ah... you visited my profile and recognized him? :D
Yeah, I play a few of his songs.
It's funny, I own a travel guitar that's close to a size 2 Martin and if I play that for a bit playing my Taylor dread feels really odd.

Douglas,
Hmm, I was hoping these people like the man from the shop knew what they were talking about. Perhaps a mandolin builder would have told me diffeently.

Mick,
Yes, that difference was clear as night and day.

BTW, are there A-style mandos with a designated strap button?

[Flyboy]

Your comments about the strange initial feel of a mandolin are right-on. However, you will probably find the opposite experience when you go back to playing a guitar after a long time focussed on the mandolin - the guitar will feel like a hard-to-play, monstrously bloated giant!

[Markus]

BTW, are there A-style mandos with a designated strap button?

Most don't have one, though a fair number of people put them in at the base of the neck [often manufacturer has suggested spot].

Some folks don't like this if they play far up the neck a lot, though.

[Brent Hutto]

BTW, are there A-style mandos with a designated strap button?

Yes, any mandolin I own.

[John Kinn]

Steve,
It's not really the scroll itself, it's the difference in construction that the scroll is part of. The man in the shop explained to me that the top has a larger length to vibrate along with the F-style mandolins.
:popcorn: