Allen Tailpieces

[Ben Somerville]

How much difference do they make? I've heard that they increase sustain and volume, but would one be much better than my eastman TP? Something is making me wanna get one, but I'm not sure I really have a reason! :)

-Ben

[Spencer]

I replaced the original tailpiece on my Flatbush with an Allen tailpiece. Neither Victor nor I could hear any difference. When installing a tailpiece, you should be careful about keeping the string angle at the bridge the same, that could affect the sound more than the tailpiece itself, for better or worse, I suppose. With the builder putting the new tailpiece on, that wasn't an issue, and the sound was unchanged. So don't expect miracles.

The reason for changing was that I was tired of the hassle with the cover of the original, and find it easier to change strings. You need to protect the top between the tailpiece and the bridge so you don't scratch up the top when changing strings.

A added reason is that I like the way it looks on the instrument, but that came after installing it.

Spencer

[Ben Somerville]

Thanks. Yeah it doesn't seem like it would affect the tone, especially since my eastman already has a cast TP, but it definitely would help with changing strings! That doesn't seem worth $100 though!

[i-vibe]

i'd changed out the tp on my old MK FSE for an Allen and noticed no difference in the tone or volume. nice aesthetics and easier string changes for sure, but tone or volume improvements....nah.

[mandroid]

OTOH, James TP matters as it makes rapid string replacements a piece O cake..

[Mike Bunting]

OTOH, James TP matters as it makes rapid string replacements a piece O cake..

Absolutely, the best bar none.

[craig.collas]

Another vote for the James-
It is a really cleaver design and addresses a number of issues with a simplicity that is both functional and aesthetically pleasing.

[Malcolm G.]

Ease of string changing - always worth the upgrade. A well- finished, quality tailpiece often helps with string breakage as well.

[Cheryl Watson]

I heard a slight increase in sustain and low end (well, low end for a mandolin) with the Allen cast tailpieces on my Williamson mandolin that has strong sustain, but the Eastmans that I have played do not have a lot of sustain; they seem to have quite a dry, quick decay and I doubt that an Allen tailpiece would make a big difference.

[fatt-dad]

Yeah, but you can get 10 stamped tailpieces for the price of one cast/James tailpiece :)

I'm torn on these high-end tailpieces. There's a part of me that may just go for the Monte- or Allen-style tailpiece over the James as the formers have no moving parts. Simplicity of string change likely adds up to a minute or so and for me that's only two or three times a year. So, that's not a big selling point.

f-d

[Ben Somerville]

...as the formers have no moving parts...

Thanks guys,
I also like solid tailpieces with no moving parts. Simple designs seem more appealing to me than clever ones (unless it's a clever yet still very simple one).

[Perry Babasin]

No one really addressed this but I think the Eastman cast tailpiece is about equal to the Allen. Some of the Allen designs are a bit more refined and such but I suspect there would be no difference in sound, no matter your opinion of cast tailpieces in general. Plus I think the Eastman tailpiece design looks great, and is easy to change strings as well...

[Ben Somerville]

No one really addressed this but I think the Eastman cast tailpiece is about equal to the Allen. Some of the Allen designs are a bit more refined and such but I suspect there would be no difference in sound, no matter your opinion of cast tailpieces in general. Plus I think the Eastman tailpiece design looks great, and is easy to change strings as well...

Thanks. I do like the look of the Allen a little better, but it probably wouldn't save me much time during string changes, and I'm not exactly willing to pay $100 for something that only affects the look a little bit. So I'll probably just stick with my eastman TP.

Thanks for the advice!

-Ben

[8ch(pl)]

I have changed out the tailpieces on my Mid Missouri mandolins for Weber cast bronze nickle plated units. I am not sorry to have done so. I like the idea of anchoring the strings to a rigid piece of metal. I realise that builders need to keep their costs down, so the sheet metal Gibson styles are found on affordable instruments. I just happen to think the cast units look and perform better.

As for improving sound, it needs to be conceded that a string change goes along with the tailpiece swap, so that action will mitigate the sound in itself.

[mandroid]

Allen types which can take quick replacement strings which still have the ball end on them are an advantage ,
as as you can borrow spares from the guitar player.

[Ben Somerville]

I think the Eastmans tailpieces are almost identical to the webers (at least in shape and design). Am I wrong?

[mtucker]

Thanks guys,
I also like solid tailpieces with no moving parts. Simple designs seem more appealing to me than clever ones (unless it's a clever yet still very simple one).
clever is one thing, but with James you not only get a very well designed and made tailpiece that most of the better builders use, but also retain the traditional look, especially if you have an instrument that follows the traditional gibson design.

I like Randy Wood's tailpiece as one for example that doesnt necessarily follow form, it has that old Gibson frequensator vibe going on. Alternately, I am not a big fan of the Monteleone piece even on John's own instruments, and I love his instruments, they simply look funny to me. The Collings Allen at least follows traditional shape.
:mandosmiley::)

[Ivan Kelsall]

I like both the Allen & James tailpieces very much.Both are (IMHO) the best of their respective kinds.However,my personal preference is for a tailpiece with NO moving parts which over time may become loose,begin to stick,rattle etc..
My first Mandolin was a Michael Kelly "legacy" to which i fitted an Allen tailpiece.Some may think it was tailpiece overkill to fit an Allen on such a Mandolin,but it was well worth it. The Allen did increase the sustain of that particular Mandolin as well as making it an absolute breeze to re-string. I needed a crowbar & a car jack,to get the original MK tailpiece cover off. More expensive Mandolins may not benefit tone-wise etc.from the fitment of a cast tailpiece,but they're terrific when it comes to string changing,
Ivan

[DerTiefster]

While this isn't an "Allen tailpiece" comment, I had zero problems and a great time swapping strings out with a Hamlett tailpiece. I probably shouldn't use the term "quickie" for that, but the concept applies. I have no idea of the cost, but it's a well-designed component.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Michael - John Hamlett's tailpiece is a work of art,possibly the most beautiful tailpiece to ever grace a Mandolin,
Ivan

[banjer23]

I owned an Allen and James,,I prefer the James,,as far as sound,,couldn't tell a difference between the two,,its a choice of funtion I suppose.

[DerTiefster]

At the risk of breaking etiquette (gosh, I hope not), here is a Hamlett tail piece:


http://hamlettinstruments.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/TP1-350x474.jpg

[sunburst]

I thought I heard my name mentioned here...
Just this one post, I don't want to hijack the thread, or "encroach" on the subject, which is, after all "Allen Tailpiece", but that picture is of the original Hamlett tailpiece (1.0). I've upgraded the design, and working with Brian Dean, have come up with Hamlett tailpiece 1.2.0, and it looks like this:

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hey John,encroach all you like,you've earned it !,
Ivan

[Ben Somerville]

I do think I like the traditional look of a James the best, though I do really like the Allen and the Hamlett. I'm not sure I wanna pay $150 for better looks though, if a new TP wouldn't help the tone at all. I'm not saying I don't care about looks, but... you know what I mean.

Thanks for the help!

[Brent Hutto]

The way I figure, it might or might not change the tone and if it does change you might or might not like it. So do it if the looks and function of the new one is worth 150 bucks to you. For me, the old one would have to be pretty darned crummy but I probably consider $150 more money than some people do.

[DerTiefster]

Different weight and balance can affect how one's pick pulls the strings (hey, it's all I can think of just now) and affect the tone of the instrument that way. Well, one other way would be to change the string resonances on the tailpiece side of the bridge, which might not matter much of you have enough damping material riding on the strings.

It seems to me that the first of those two, and -possibly- the second, could be tested by buying a 4 oz. or 6 oz. lead sinker at a bait shop and (somehow) affixing it to your mandolin tailpiece. Or wrap 4-6 oz. of solder in the strings at the tailpiece. Then play the mandolin. If it's different to you, then the weight and balance of the added tailpiece might make you smile. But then again, so did the solder wrap. If it doesn't sound different, then it's hard to see how a fancy tailpiece could do so.

Just my opinions and thoughts on mechanisms.