Mystery tenor archtop on CL

[mrmando]

What do you guys make of this (http://columbus.craigslist.org/msg/1911599531.html)?

Gibson made a whole line of nice six-string archtops for Recording King/Montgomery Ward, but I can't find any record of a Recording King tenor archtop. Furthermore, this puppy has segmented F-holes, and I can't find a single example of a Gibson-built archtop, tenor or otherwise, with segmented F-holes.

There is no name on the headstock and no label in the instrument. Reportedly the sides are Brazilian rosewood, and the tuners are nice old individual open-back Grovers. Could, I suppose, be a '30s Harmony. I dunno. Any ideas?

[MikeEdgerton]

Gibson wasn't the only company making Recording King branded instruments for Montgomery Ward. I have owned two Gibson built Recording King archtops and they always have this in common. You can look at the guitar's individual pieces and find Gibson "parts" in their construction. The body will always be the dimension of a known Gibson product, the headstock will usually be the same shape as a known Gibson product, etc. The combination of the pieces will be odd but they will be consistent. I had one that had the headstock of a known Kalamazoo and another that had the headstock of a Kel Kroydan guitar. The bridge on the last one I had was from a 20's L5 guitar. It's like they swept the factory floor when they built these and used parts they had laying around or at least the templates of other instruments, some from years prior to build them. The Gruhn Book lists the model 1203, a tenor version of the 1205. It didn't have a bound back. There is a Recording King with a bound back and sides and a "rooftop" shaped peghead, mahogany back and sides, sunburst from 1935. It doesn't show as a tenor. It might also be labeled Wards, not Recording King. Gruhn has had to adjust his book a few times as new models have surfaced so it isn't impossible I guess. With that said this looks too nice for your run of the mill Harmony or Kay but I'm not sure it's a Gibson either.

By the way, it sure looks like there is something on that headstock. Ask for a closeup.

[mrmando]

Oh, I got closeups. Looks like a Recording King nameplate, but it's blank.

The seller reminds me that some early Epiphone archtops had segmented F-holes, and it's true, they did. But that doesn't support the idea that this is a Gibson-built instrument.

[MikeEdgerton]

He obviously doesn't know that Gibson didn't own Epiphone in the 30's when they were making Recording Kings.

[mtucker]

yes, believe that is an Epi.

[mrmando]

But the rooftop headstock is all Gibson. That's what has me puzzled.

Photos of '30s Epi tenors are kinda scarce. Couldn't readily find any for comparison.

[MikeEdgerton]

First of all, it might not be a Recording King. Minus the labels that has to be conjecture. It looks too fancy for the Harmony/Kay/Regal crowd. It does have certain similar charactaristics to this (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Museum/Guitar/Epiphone/34EpiDeluxe/34epidlx.html) Epiphone 6-string guitar in the Frets Musem. I'm not ready to call it as an Epiphone yet. I'd like to find a labeled tenor or a six-string with some of the exact same features first.

[MikeEdgerton]

Martin, was there a truss rod cover on the close-ups of the headstock?

[mrmando]

Nope, no TRC.
62459
Fretboard inlays are quite distinctive.

I was bidding on an Epiphone tenor in an estate sale a few months back ... I lost ... looks like I didn't save any photos of it. Oops.

[mtucker]

body sure looks Epi, maybe re-necked w/ a gibby...

[mrmando]

Well, here's an identical one (http://banjoworld.de/Tenor30.htm) (except for the replacement tuners) from the Banjo World collection in Germany. Tellingly, this collector doesn't appear to know the brand either.

He does have several photos of Epi tenors, none of them match.

Just acquired a TG50 (thanks, M.C.!) so I won't lose any sleep over leaving the mystery tenor alone.

[mtucker]

I revisited the last fretboard journal and the peghead on Rawlings '35 Epi (pg 64) is not far off, slightly different though. How about Hofner? Guess the German link would know if it were.

[MikeEdgerton]

I had to go back to a 1934 Epiphone catalog to see any segmented f holes. This one has some tenors, some played by a few artists, some as catalog shots. I still don't know. IT's a pretty big pdf file, wait for it to come down.

1934 Epiphone Catalog (http://www.acousticmusic.org/userfiles/file/pdfs/historical-data/Epiphone/Epiphone%201934%20Catalog.pdf)

[delsbrother]

Wow, Mike, that thing is chock full of great pictures. Teddy Bunn and Danny Barker are legends of early Jazz. I had no idea they played Epis. Lots of neat all-Epi band shots too. Funny how Eddie Condon isn't shown - he's probably the best known tenor/plectrum player ever, and was pictured quite often with Epis. I love that slanted diamond inlay!

Also neat to know that there were official Epi mandocellos (at least in the catalog). I've seen several conversions, but interesting to know there were actual instruments.