Different gauge strings in courses

[Ade B]

Hi. I am totally new to Mandolin but have been playing guitar for 30 years. I just bought an fairly inexpensive instrument to learn on. Immediately I found the strings were tarnished, dull sounding and probably a poor make. Worse was I found it almost impossible to fret the instrument above 5th fret due to the tension in the strings. Call me a wimp but I want it to be easy to play while I am learning!

So not knowing what gauge strings were on the mando I bought a new set of the lightest strings I could find 9-34. Bingo, the instrument is very easy to play now and is bright sounding, but naturally I seem to have lost a bit of resonance due to the light strings. The ease of play is mainly due to the lighter pressure required to fret the strings but also probably a little of the relief in the neck has gone giving a slightly lower action. The action seems really good now.

So now I want to find the best compromise of sound and playability. I will buy a new set of heavier strings and I plan to try one light and one heavy string in each course as is done on a 12 string guitar. If that doesn't work I will try the Hybrid heavy bottom, light top.

I just want to know if this is common, if mixing strings in courses will have any disadvantages and if anyone else can share there thoughts or string gauge/manufacturer advice.

Thanks

[Steve L]

I don't think I'd do that. Keeping a mandolin in tune is tough enough without 2 different string diameters vibrating at the same pitch.
That gauges you're using are very,very light. I'd go up to something like 10-15-24-36 like the GHS A250s. If the action seems really rough, see about taking it somewhere for a set up or diagnosis. There may be too much relief in the neck, a funky neck angle or a bit of top sinkage or it could just be a tweak of the bridge, truss rod or nut is in order.

Good luck...let us know how you make out.

[Jim Garber]

I would not string with multiple gauges on each course. I am not sure what the point would be anyway. You might want to take it to a luthier and have it checked out and set up properly. It sounds like this may be an older mandolin and there may be some issues with the neck (I hope not).

Frankly, if all else checks out OK and you like the feel of the lightest strings, why not leave them on. Unless you are planning to play a concert anytime soon, it might be fine until you get going and would not make all that much difference to play with low volume. You might bump up the gauge to lights like D'Addario J-62s or equivalent.

[Jim Garber]

Ha! Steve and I simulposted about the same thing!

[i-vibe]

good advice above.

and re. the different gauges you see on SOME of a 12string gtr's courses......the high E (1st) and B (2nd) strings are tuned to same pitch and therefore use the same respective ga for each course.

then the G (3rd) thru the low E (6th) are tuned in octaves.....that's why ya have one thin and one fat on those strings.

[GRW3]

I play with medium strings that have a very light action. I can do this because I have it setup to be this way. If you can play with the light strings keep doing so while you develop technique. A good setup will cost $50-75 and you might jusr rather put that in your next mandolin. A good mandolin from a good dealer will come with a decent setup and perhaps the promise for personal adjustment within a reasonable amount of time.

[mandroid]

Yup, in#1, OP sounds like they need to send the Mandolin for a proper setup.
Quoting:
"I just bought an fairly inexpensive instrument to learn on."
"I found it almost impossible to fret the instrument above 5th fret due to the tension in the strings."


neck may have warped, etc ..

shop time :popcorn:

[Ade B]

Hey thanks everyone:)

Really, so much, for taking the time to answer my post, I love the community spirit! I live in Oxford, UK and the mando is quite rare in the UK compared to the USA hence my visit to this site.

I tried putting the heavier original strings on mixed in courses and it still plays okay. I have no problems with tuning and everything is definately true and good on the new instrument. However I still am not satisfied with the resonance (volume) of the lower strings. It actually could completely be down to the rubbish strings that came on the instrument. I will try heavy bottom with light top with all new strings and not mixed courses and I hope that will be satisfactory.

The mandolin I bought is a Tanglewood TMAS -E (it's pluggable as well) and I have to say I am impressed with the quality of workmanship for a fairly inexpensive instrument (£240/$350 new). It has all solid tonewoods albeit in mahogony which I realise is unusual. This is a UK company but instruments built in Korea.

With regards to setup I am a little peeved to be honest because although I had to buy it by post from an up North supposed expert Eagle Music. I spoke to the 'mandolin expert' owner at length about all aspects of the instrument and he assured me that it would go into his workshop and be set up professionally and then played by him before it was shipped. Frankly this can't be true as although the instument turned up pretty much in tune (so it had been touched) it had not been intonated at all. The bridge treble side actually pointed backwards of the bass end and harmonics at 12th fret compared to the fretted position were getting on for a semitone out. I was pissed off, so I just set it up myself and it is now fine! I do have to doubt they touched the truss rod at all though.

I can set up a guitar, including the truss rod myself but it is very much with experience and I am not confident to do this on a new instrument (which can't be settled in any way) of such disimilar scale, hence I am firstly trying just the strings.

Honestly the action looks okay to me but I don't have any reference. Very important question - how many mm (in microns) can you expect to play and sound okay at the 12th fret?

I will get the new strings 38 at lower end and fit hybrid with light top (even though I have fitted the very light strings at the top end they sound fine to me).

Once again thanks for the advice and I like to talk to my USA friends!

Adrian (Ade for short)

[Ray(T)]

Hi Ade, That doesn't sound like Eagle Music. I've never bought anything from them but I know people who have and the one time I called in the shop I found them very friendly. The first thing they did was offer me a cup of tea!. If you're not happy, try to get someone who knows about mandolins to have a look at it and, if they think something is wrong, give Eagle Music a call.

The UK isn't exactly devoid of mandolins there is even this site - http://www.mandolin.org.uk/index.php - it can get a bit quiet at times but that is usually due to people posting new threads. There are even three members from Oxford although they don't seem to be very active. Hopefully see you there.
Ray

[Ade B]

Hi Ray

Thanks for the advice and the web link. I didn't mean to disrespect Eagle music, as I say I spoke to the owner Steve Noon, a Mandolin expert, at length and he was very helpful, friendly and knowledgeable. I think this one must have just slipped through their QC as I was also (pleasantly) surprised at how quickly it turned up. Perhaps a less experienced technician set it up and the bridge moved when he or she was tuning to pitch - who knows?!

As it happens, with new strings and the bridge adjustments I did, plus a week of practice I am very happy now - and hooked!! I suspect the instrument (and my fingers) needed a bit of playing in as well. I found the fretting position accuracy to be quite critical in comparison to guitar because of the small spacings and the high string tension, but I am getting used to that now.

So I am going to leave everything as is for now until I need new strings and then perhaps have another go at optimising.

At the moment I am just strumming chords interspersed with a little 'flat picking' and I find it quite easy and natural to get something tuneful because of the tuning in fifths. I am off on holiday for a week tomorrow but when I return I would like to get some basic songbooks with recognisable tunes - any suggestions?

Cheers

Ade

[300win]

Not a good thing to do. The mandolin in the best of circumstances is the hardest stringed instrument to tune and keep there in my opinion, putting differant gauge strings wihin each course will only bring more tuning problems.