The Beatles

[mandobob]

Is there one Beatle recording with mando?
Just wondering; with the way these guys took to trying new sounds and instruments, why did our lil' 8 stringed friend get overlooked.

[Tom C]

If you listen to #9 carefully, you can hear a mando about 3/4 thru it.

[mandobob]

Tom; seriuosly? I never noticed it before!

[AlanN]

It's well-known that Sir George Martin looked down on the mandolin sound. He produced Sea Train's first record and when Rowan went to use the mando, he said something like "Good God, I hear gondolas!"

[SternART]

You need to listen to #9 backwards to hear it..........

[Yonkle]

Rock and Roll uses Guitars not mandolins, to put it simply,granted the Beatles did use a lot on odd instruments later on Revolver, Srg. Peppers, Mystery Tour Ect. But pure rock has no room for mandolins in my opinion. Kind of like doing Bach on a Banjo, it just ain't cricket! I also feel Beatle Music should be played by the Beatles and knowone else, they did it right and no body else is going to make it sound better. Some things should be left alone. JD

[Bob DeVellis]

I guess I think of the Beatles as more pop than rock & roll, and pop has certainly incorporated mandolin (e.g., Rod Stewart). Also, George Harrison was a huge ukulele fan, so mandolin doesn't seem like that big a stretch. The Rolling Stones used a dulcimer on Baby Jane (all right, it was an electrified dulcimer, but still a dulcimer).

[mando bandage]

Kind of like doing Bach on a Banjo, it just ain't cricket!

I'll listen to Bela Fleck play Bach on a Banjo anyday. Probably wouldn't want to hear anybody else do it, though.

R

[Jacob]

To play in the mandolin register, George Harrison used a Vox mando guitar (http://www.voxamps.co.uk/history/12string.htm), an octave electric twelve-string.
Jerry Jones Guitars (http://www.jerryjonesguitars.com/Nshorty.htm) offers a similar approach.

http://www.voxamps.co.uk/images/museum/mando.jpg http://www.jerryjonesguitars.com/_borders/Shorty.jpg

[Tom C]

No it's not really on #9. I just wanted to see how many would listen to it and for how many times.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandobob]

AlanN; Aha, the 'other' Beatle George; that makes sense. Gondolas!
Tom C. You sir, are a hooligan!
Yonkle Yonkle;

But pure rock has no room for mandolins?
Pure rock? That's an intersting way to describe their music.
I think of them as their own style, but that may be unreasonable.
I also not sure that Rock and Roll is for guitars only.
Acoustic pianos and basses can 'rock', listen to early Sun recordings. Accordions and fiddles can 'rock', listen to
to Zydeco. Chuck Berry type of textbook rock, maybe, just maybe not (yet).

[plunkett5]

Yonkle -I must disagree. Mandolin not for Rock?
If The Band and The Hooters aren't Rock and Roll than someone changed the definition. Ry Cooder put mando rhythm parts into lots of 60s Rock and popped a killer mandolin solo for The Rolling Stones.

As far as no one playing the Beatles music better than they did...probably true, but there's a lot of fun to be had by playing Beatles tunes to an appreciative bar crowd that sings along with every note. 'Better than' isn't my goal, 'part of' is enough for me.
Respectfully- Mike

[Fred G]

Led Zepplin!!! and REM found a way to get the mando in rock too.

[Nathan Sanders]

I remember hearing either an interview with Emmy Lou Harris, or it was someone talking about Emmy Lou, describing her band the Nash Ramblers about 12-14 years ago. The comment was made that instead of having an electric guitar in the band they had the mandolin. Of course, Emmy Lou is not necessarily rock.

I see no problem with mandolin in rock music. Have you heard some of the wild electric stuff Sam Bush has done. Granted, his electric stuff may be more bluesy, but you get the idea. Electric mandolin has been used extensively in Western Swing. What exactly is "pure rock" anyway?

[Yonkle]

I knew I would get some flax from my remarks. Anyway the Beatles were the Beatles and they did'nt use Mandolins, so thats the way it is.
As far as anybody else playing Beatle music, it's just my feeling that it just does'nt sound right if it's done by anyone else.

[ira]

yonkle my friend- not a flame, just a polite disagreement.

i am ahuge beatles fan. i for one do cover the beatles with a mando, but regardless of whether or not played on traditional beatles/rock instruments or not, thank goodness folks are still playing their tunes. if music is just left to the originator it dies. even stuff as popular as the beatles. its kinda like folks complaining about the remaining members of the grateful dead playing garcia songs- hey, they are great tunes and the dead always covered other bands anyway, so why not carry on the tunes in a live format.
just mho

[Nathan Sanders]

Beatles should have included a banjo somewhere along the way....ha ha ha ha ha.....

Perhaps if history had been different, and all the Beatles were still alive today, they would have done an Unplugged special and used a mandolin. That would have been cool.

Or, another what if, the Beatles had stayed together, were all still alive, and probably would be playing Branson today....ha ha ha ha ha......then perhaps a mandolin would be involved.

OK, enough "what ifs"

[reindoggy]

"Something" can be corrupted beautifully into a mando polka. If you can't do a perfect cover-- mess with people's minds!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fangsdaddy]

i'm not sure i'd call the hooters "rock & roll."

[plunkett5]

Hey Fangsdaddy- I meant Hooters the band from Philadelphia, not the more famous...let say, duo. - Mike

[Yonkle]

Sorry for opening a can of worms. When I wrote "pure rock" I was refering to rock and roll in general, not the BEATLES, sorry for the confusion. Yes the Beatles were not just rock, they were a bit of most everything. Now that I think of it "Within you and without you" may have sounded good with a little mando in it.
I always wondered in The Stones "Lady Jane" what instrument that was, I thought it was a sitar, but I guess it was a dulcimer.

[mandocrucian]

But pure rock has no room for mandolins in my opinion.

It's not the instrument, ace, it's the way it is played. #But your statement seems to imply that mando is either BG or folk or Italian.

If you know rock and blues electric guitar vocabulary, which includes the various techniques involved, and/or you really understand how that music is put together, whether it is mando or an electric guitar becomes a non-issue.

But if you really meant "pure rock has no room for bluegrass mandolins." I would tend to agree with you in most cases.

Niles Hokkanen

[jmkatcher]

I'd like to chime in with a strong vote of support for Niles' statement. Almost everything I've done since picking up the mandolin can be considered rock (or at least it's closest country equivalent). Not coming from a bluegrass background myself, I don't want to do bluegrass REM (actually the thought makes me more than a little queasy http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif). Not, of course, that I don't respect the skills of those who can pull it off.

Examples: Buddy Holly's music sounds really good on acoustic mandolin. I'm even working on an arrangement of Oasis' "Don't Look Back In Anger" that's shaping up nicely.

[mandopete]

But if you really meant "pure rock has no room for bluegrass mandolins." I would tend to agree with you in most cases.
Good said Niles - I'm curious though...can you think of any examples of bluegrass mandolin in Rock n' Roll?

I was just thinking about this a bit and all I come up with is the bluegrass banjo part in the Eagle's Take It Easy

[mandough]

THE HOOTERS!!!!!!! Good God! Îf ever there was a pansy/big haired/fake rock band, it would have to be them!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[mandocrucian]

can you think of any examples of bluegrass mandolin in Rock n' Roll?

"Runnin' Blue" THE SOFT PARADE - The Doors Jesse McReynolds on mandolin, Jim Buchannan on fiddle (as hired session players)

Whether you want to call it "rock n roll" or something else, at least in the specific examples below, you could add

"Friend Of The Devil," "Ripple" AMERICAN BEAUTY - Grateful Dead #(Grisman on mandolin)

"Wild Bill" TIGER ROSE - Robert Hunter (again, Grisman on mando)

and there were some things on The Byrds' SWEETHEART OF THE RODEO which had Chris Hillman on mando, but that was "country rock".

So if a bluegrass or old-time song is electrified, is it really "rock 'n roll" or is it "amped up grass"? #Or can it be both at the same time?

Niles H

[madog99]

I thought the Hooters had a great sound with lots on mando ! And Springsteen has used it on certain songs , the most famous would be "Glory Days" Also having been down to New Orleans once was lucky enough to see a few cajun bands featuring electric mando , now those boys can really rock ! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[mandopete]

Niles - you really know your music!

I don't think electricification (or amplification) is they key, but I guess it's almost as hard to define rock n' roll as it is to define bluegrass.

Back to the original topice here - The Beatles (if I recall) started life as a "skiffle" (sp?) band. #I'm no expert on skiffle, but in some ways it seemed to be a bit like folk music. #In that vein, one may have expected that they would embrace an instrument such as the mandolin.

One other thought to ponder on the bluegrass angle - why is it that so many Beatles tunes make great bluegrass songs?

[mandocrucian]

why is it that so many Beatles tunes make great bluegrass songs?

Strong melodies which can stand alone (solo voice).

Take a trad. song like "Wayfaring Stranger". This song will work backed only by a single instrument, regardless of whether it is bass, guitar, banjo, mandolin, fiddle or whatever. #In fact, it works as an unaccompanied vocal. The song melody is complete unto itself and can be independent of any accompaniment

In that situation, you back the song with multiple instruments, or change the rhythm/groove of the accompaniment. #But that melody still floats over all that.

In contrast, in various other forms of music, the vocal line is inextricably welded to the accompaniment, which is as important to the song as the vocal line. Like conjoined twins, separation of the two can be fatal.

Try doing any of the following as an unaccompanied vocal:

"Back In Black" - AC/DC
"Mississippi Queen" - Mountain
"Paranoid" - Black Sabbath
"Cat Scratch Fever" - Ted Nugent
"My Generation" - The Who
"Wang Dang Doodle" - Howlin Wolf, Koko Taylor etc.
"Birthday - The Beatles
"La Grange" - ZZ Top
"Poppa's Got A Brand New Bag - James Brown

Those songs are as much about the rhythm riffs as they are about the lyrics and vocal melody. #And there are a lot of examples where the guitar riff makes the song and the lyrics are mediocre at best ("Smoke On The Water" - Deep Purple).

And the attempted genetic engineering that is occasional tried in making these types of song bluegrass produced the musical equivalent of 2headed/6 legged calves, 3-eyed fish and other deformed monstrosities.

There it is - the "secret". #If the melody of a song is strong enough to stand by itself as an unacompanied vocal, it is strong enough to withstand most mutations of genre, groove, meter, scale/mode you can bend it into or layer below it.

Niles Hokkanen

[mandopete]

Spot On, I'd day Niles!

[ira]

deep as always niles. man, i wish i had the cash to go down south, or that you would come up to new england for a workshop. i consistently think about your comment many moons ago about the function of the instrument in the song. it has helped me to translate many tunes to mando. your comments about the stand alone ability of a melody is certainly just as important.:blues:

[Yonkle]

"A Splendid Time Is Guaranteed For ALL!"

[ira]

haven't visited this for a while- yonkle, that is excellent!!!!!!!

[dan@kins]

genre schmonra.

regards,
Dan

[ira]

excellent!

[mandroid]

anatomically hooters are just fine. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif