Mando lessons question, please help!

[saznpins]

Greetings everyone, I'm hoping y'all can help me.

I love the mando and have been playing for a little over 2 years, teaching myself with books and by listening and watching others play. The fretboard seems pretty intuitive to me coming from a violin background and I play a great deal by ear by I also read tab.

I never learned standard notation because since I was a kid I could pick up everything by ear. So I've been "faking" my way through, playing by ear since grade school.

I took my first mando lesson on Friday. And I want to find out if this is normal: The instructor didn't want to hear me play, didn't want to see my technique, evaluate what I was doing right or wrong, or anything else. He said first and foremost I need to learn standard notation so we spent the whole lesson with me trying to sight read a simple piece and it was awful!

What are folks opinions on this? Is standard notation a necessity or should I tell this guy I want him to teach me a better tremolo and skip the sight reading?

I'm sorry this is so long! Thanks fellow mando lovers http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Cheers much,
Sarah

[Tom C]

I would say it depends on what type of music and what "you" want to learn. If classical is your path, learn to read. If bluegrass is, I would say to skip the reading. But I would not totally neglect it. I've started and stop a few times.You can learn it on your own with a little time. Take a tune you know and re-learn it in notation. It helps in learning the notes of your fretboard plus after a while
you look at a string of notes as words instead of individual notes. I should pick up on this once again.

[mandomood]

I'm also a teacher and I disagree with the approach this steacher has taken. I think our job comes down to one thing, being able to best serve you and what you hope to get better at, and along the way perhaps recommend a few things that may help in other areas eventually.

But he needs to have an idea of what it is you want to do and improve on, so that means YOU need to have an idea of what you want to improve on. I really don't think reading music, in bluegrass, is a necessity. Sure it helps a great deal, especially playing others styles of music but shouldn't be pushed or forced on you. I know many many many professional players who do not or can't read at all...

You can also ask what he plays and have him play some for you and if his views and style don't come anywhere near bluegrass or what you like, decide what few things he can help you with on the instrument itself...you be the judge of what to work on to a degree...it isn't entirely up to him...you're the one paying for the lesson!

[Tom C]

Sarah, Who are you taking lessons from? If interested, Barry Mitterhoff is one heck of a nice guy ,great mando player and teacher. I would say one of his strong points is being a really good teacher. He's located in scotchplains NJ.

[saznpins]

Thanks for the replies Tom and mandomood http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I've been learning bluegrass, and really wanted to just get better than I am but without really knowing how. I kind of feel stuck. My transition between chords is sometimes a little rough, and my tremolo is not very consistent. I thought an instructor could look at the way I play and maybe help with that.

I'm takiing lessons from my husband's guitar teacher (Mike Cusak), who also teaches mando but he plays more classical than bluegrass himself. Scotch Plains is about 45 minutes from me, maybe I'll make the trip http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

I guess what bothered me the most is that he didn't really ask me what I wanted from lessons, and just started in with the standard notation. A little bit into the lesson I asked if he would be looking at my technique to see what I could improve on and he said "Not until you can play this fast by reading it, until then I won't be able to tell." I said that I could play other things but he didn't seem interested http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[ChrisWallace]

I'm not a teacher although I have been taking lessons for over a year. However, before I found my current teacher I went through two others that just weren't cutting it. If I were in your position, I'd definitely take that 45 minute drive to try out that other teacher. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Personally, a teacher that doesn't seem interested in what YOU want to do would be a red flag for me to RUN!! Don't be afraid to try different teachers until you find the the one jives with you. Good luck!!

[Tom C]

Sarah, Feel free to PM me and I can give you his phone number if you like.

[Mike Buesseler]

A few years back, I lived near Seattle. I took one lesson from Peter Martin (Petimar around here). #First thing he had me do was play something. #He spent the next 15 minutes making improvements on my posture, hand position, strap length--everything mechanical that matters. #Best 15 minutes I ever spent with an instructor...except for maybe the rest of the hour we spent on actual *music.* #THAT was a great lesson. #I sorely wish I could go back for more.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[fatt-dad]

I use the follow-the-money rule. When the money is going from you to the teacher, the teacher should accomodate you, whether you want to learn how to hold the pick, work on your tremelo or get better playing an A-minor scale. If the teacher refuses, 'cause they are so smart that only they know what you should learn (it could be the truth) they should learn the fine art of dipolmacy and the basic tenants of how to handle a client (i.e., you). You handle a client towards what is needed by developing trust.

Imagine going to a doctor and saying, give me an x-ray of my ankle. It may or may not happen. The good doctor would first inquire about the pain, when it started and then decide whether the x-ray was needed. But at least they would stay focused on your original concern (i.e., they would not instruct you on diet as that is the best way to live a long life).

If you want to get better on your technique and are willing to shell out money, I would find a teacher who can at least work with you a little bit on that!

fatt-dad

[John Flynn]

Sarah:

I would just like to add my support to what has been said. You are the customer in the student/teacher relationship. I read standard notation and I think learning it is a laudable goal, but if it is not YOUR goal, it should not be the instructor's goal either. If he can't get off of it, get rid of him. I have had to go through several instructors because they did not meet my needs and wants. The two best instructors I have had do not read music and do not know any textbook theory. They are neither apologetic nor proud of that fact, it's just part of who they are as musicians. However, thier recording/ performance resumes and thier skill as musicians trump those of all the "sheet music instructors" I have had.

One of the best lessons I had was from the noted bluegrass player, Jody Strecher (not one of the two mentioned above), at a festival. He started by saying, "Play something for me that you feel you play well, then play something for me you're struggling with." After I did, he said, "Here's what you need to do..." It was the most improvement I have every gotten in one sitting in my life and it only took five minutes!

[mrbook]

It sounds like the teacher has one way of teaching - their way - and wants you to learn it without any outside (bad) influences. That may or may not suit your needs. My daughter had a violin teacher that was very rigid - stick to the lesson and nothing else, never wanted to hear any piece she learned on her own (as I encouraged her to do), and eventually she started leaving the lesson in tears (I stayed for one, and it was brutal). We found a new teacher, and when I broke the news, it turned out that she liked my daughter and saw great promise in her - it was just her teaching style. I found out later she has made many adults cry, too.

There are certain things that every teacher should teach, but it never hurts to be responsive to the student. It is good to learn to read music - I prefer it to tablature - but it's not the only way, especially for bluegrass. If that's the way the teacher teaches, then I guess that's what you do. Doesn't sound like much fun, though.

[saznpins]

Wow, thanks so much for all the input! It's not that I have an aversion to standard notation, I just think it's not my top priority. Since I'm a self-taught player from books, I'd just like input on my technique, help with any glaringly obvious bad habits that I may have, and a little guidance. I want to be a GOOD mando player ;)

Mike B and jflynnstl, what you are describing is EXACTLY what I want from lessons!

mrbook, I think that my instructor probably just does teach that way, and although I'll give him another shot and more input as to what I want to learn, I'm not sure he can teach any other way. He also teaches at a local college and that's kind of what my lesson felt like, a class. Where you just learn what the instructor feels like teaching you and that's that. Definitely not what I'm looking for.

Tom, you have PM http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[grsnovi]

Sarah - It doesn't sound like you will get what YOU want from this teacher. I would suggest that you find somebody who WILL give you what you want (and it may not be "lessons").

I think there are some "teachers" who only know "their" way and who are only comfortable teaching a "blank slate".

I will say that Barry is one heck of a GREAT player, I wish I lived near enough to take lessons from him!

I believe that Barry has done sessions at Jorma's FurPeace Ranch hasn't he?

[WaywardFiddler]

Sarah,

Having worked with and observed a number of teachers on a number of instruments over the years, I'd say the most important thing is to find a good fit. Now, somebody that may be a fine teacher for one person may not be a good fit for another. Occasionally you find that rare teacher that can magically morph themself into what the student needs at the time -- in my experience they listen a lot and are not autocrats.
In any case, you don't necessarily need a magical morpher. You need somebody that fits. Your communication styles have to mesh, and you have to share a vision of where you are going with your music.
IMHO you should shop around until you find a good fit.

On a related topic, clinics are wonderful, because every teacher approaches things with a different perspective and different ideas. Regular lessons from a good teacher, spiced up with an occasional clinic or one-off lesson or master class from somebody else is what I consider the ideal situation.

-dave

[Pete Martin]

What Wayward Dave said 100%!!

Mike, you can always come back for another time http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Mandodoc]

Might I add, don't let a teacher that is not right for you discourage you from progress. Find another teacher. A bad teacher can kill your spirit, don't let that happen.
jon

[mandodebbie]

I suggest you read some biographies of famous composers. Beatoven was beaten and smacked around by his instructor/father so much he eventually went deaf. Mozart's old man was just as brutal (remember he was a prodogy). All in the name of music. The Good Ole' Days! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif