finished my 'speed neck" today :

[300win]

After playing a fellow pickers F-5 fern about a month ago, and it having a speed neck, and me finding out I really liked it. Yesterday I begin working on my F-5. I read several post of how other cafe members have done it. I just used the materials I had on hand, and this is the way I did it. Began with my trusty little pocket knife with the largest blade as it has a straight edge, and by the way I keep it very sharp. After scraping off the finsh down to the bare wood, I then used 100 grit sandpaper, 120, 220, 00 steel wool, and 0000 steel wool. Another thing I did after using the 220 is spray lightly some Old English furniture polish, rubbed it in, then wiped it off to raise the grain. I also did this after the 00 sw, and the 0000 sw, and on the 0000 I repeated that three times. After wiping clean, I then spayed lightly with the polish once more, rubbed it in, then wiped clean. I then polished the neck and the rest of my mandolin with Gibson polish. Very pleased with the results. Neck is now slicker than snot, as we are so fond of saying down in my neck of the woods. I decided to do this after playing at a two day outside contest this past week-end with temps in the 90's and around 80 % humidity. Up until then my neck felt ok, as my mandolin has a very light satin finsh, but it really began to get sticky this week-end. I will probably get some tung-oil next time I'm in town, and lightly do the 0000 sw rub, then put the tung oil on. I took my time and it really looks good, rather than making a straight line where I began on both ends I blended/ feathered it into the original finsh. Thanks for all the info from the rest of ya'll that has already done this. As far as my mandolins value, it don't matter to me as I'm never going to get rid of it, and I buy instruments to play, not to look at. Long as one sounds outstanding I could care less how it looks.

[re simmers]

As Mitch Jayne once said, "slicker than deer guts on a door knob."

Bob

[300win]

update on this. This past week-end I played outside for around three hours. It was around 90 F. Did not have any problem with my neck, stayed slick and easy the entire time. This morning I rubbed in my first coat of Formby's tung-oil. Letting it dry until about 9 pm, then buffing with 0000 steel-wool, then rubbing in another coat. I plan on putting 3-4 coats of the tung-oil on this way over the next couple of days, then cleaning and polishing. I know I'm gonna like it as the first coat already has made the curly maple really stand out. I think that'll do it. Now I'm contemplating doing the same thing to my A-9, and also my banjo. Although I don't really play those very much, the A-9 in church services in a praise band sometimes, and the banjo very seldom. Still I really like the feel of the neck without the finsh on it. I can understand now why fiddles don't have any finish on them. Thanks again for all the info about how to do this.

[Nick Triesch]

How sad. That would be like taking a steak knife and carving your name into the leather seats of a 2010 Porsche 911! Unless a person would plan to keep the car forever. You know how we all keep our cars forever! Right. I would always pass on a mutilated mandolin. A home job would be even worse.

[SincereCorgi]

Mutilated? I dunno, man, I bought my Collings with the prior owner having given it a very neat 'speed neck' and I like it a lot. The Porsche analogy doesn't hold water because an unfinished neck isn't about aesthetics.

[Chip Booth]

Here we go again... :(

[toddjoles]

If you've ever seen a violin neck, you know there is no problem with asthetics with a speed neck, they all have them and they were all "mutilated" by a scraper or a violin makers knife etc.... As far as the Porshe analogy goes, it is all about SPEED! The speed neck is more like adding a race cam or finding the best all around tires for all track conditions. If the neck sticks and slows you down in hot or humid conditions it can be a good solution, albeit much more permanant than carrying a small container of baby powder. It hasn't been much of a problem for me on my daily player, but I wouldn't hesitate to do the mod on it if it was neccessary. Of course I would never do it on something like my vintage 1941 Kalamazoo KM11. Just like a doctor, on vintage instruments "first do no harm," you have to have respect for the instrument.

[Nick Triesch]

To some folks a speed neck is all about aesthetics. I know some of these folks who can hardly play! I call them "fake speed neck owners".

[sgarrity]

Nick........let it go man. It's getting really old!

[Byrdmando]

To some folks a speed neck is all about aesthetics. I know some of these folks who can hardly play! I call them "fake speed neck owners".

Stay Classy, Nick.

[Mike Snyder]

There's nothing new to talk about here. Trolling.

[JeffD]

The scariest part of the procedure would be the knife. I just don't have the confidence I wouldn't take too much off and leave a ding or two. But if you are good with a knife it sure would be faster than trying to sand the finish off.

[300win]

No problem from me about being critisized. As far as my ability to play, I dunno, I been at it for over 45 years, have won several contest over the years, played for a living about 5 years, so maybe I'm just doing it for looks, lol. And on using the knife, no doubts about that, as I was a finsh carpenter for 30 + years, and a pocket knife is a tool that you use quite a bit in that line. I think I stated that I really don't care what a instrument looks like, the sound and the ease of play is what trips my trigger. I think maybe the disgruntled poster on here might be one of the same people he is calling out on the mat ? But having said all this let me add, I'm done , and I really don't give a dang what anybody else says to me that what I did was wrong or horrible/sad.

[fatt-dad]

Personally, I like your style!

f-d

[Dick Hutchings]

You're not alone.

[Rob Gerety]

Personally, I like your style!

f-d
I like his style too. It your mandolin - do with it what you wish.

[Mike Bunting]

I'm with 300win, you get it, and you don't think that a mandolin is a car!

[toddjoles]

300WIN, way to go on jumping in to doing it yourself, it really doesn't matter what they think. What matters is, how does she play now?

It also seems like some are confusing whittling with wood working. For any of those wondering, you don't whittle/cut the finish off, you SCRAPE it off with the edge. Like scraping off a carrot skin with the edge of a spoon versus cutting if off with a peeler. Most anyone who has done any amount of woodworking knows that a cabinet scraper can remove a finish quickly with no gouges etc..., is very easy to control, and with no little sand paper scratches to be seen. If that is still to scary for you can tape off the area and use scotchbrite pads or sand paper but a scaper will give you better/cleaner results.

[jim_n_virginia]

Personally I would never do it to any mandolin I own but I figure if you own the mandolin you can do anything you want to it. And especially if your gonna keep it so what they hey! :mandosmiley:

[Mandoviol]

I never really thought about it, but an unfinished neck really is faster/smoother to play on. Sort of in the back of my head I've always thought it was kind of weird to be able to go up and down the neck on my fiddle quickly, but have my thumb stick on my mando's neck. Perhaps if I ever get a custom, I'll ask for the unfinished neck.

[Pete Summers]

Some high dollar violin makers never use sandpaper at all, and will finish their fiddles to varnish-ready entirely by scrapping with a blade. I myself have scrapped that thick glossy lacquer off the neck of a Chinese fiddle to good effect. Scrapping works perfectly, better than sanding.

[mandopaul]

I've seen a guitar player at one hot festival put some baby powder on his hand. Took care of the sticky neck.

[Kevin K]

Baby powder helps for a short time then it can become a gummy mess if humidity is way up.

[Nick Triesch]

I've seen some high end guitars with screws drilled in to hold in those pesky pickguards. At one of our nice San Diego guitar shops there was a 1920s era Gibson F4 for sale with a large drill holes that were put there for a pickup or something. It just sat in the shop for years because to many, it was ruined.

[AlanN]

Otoh, I saw a 23 Loar with 3 wood screws through the heel, holding the neck on. Gilchrist got a hold of it, worked his magic, and...

[CES]

My Silverangel has a speed neck, and I really like the feel of it, though I would fall solidly into the "fake speed neck" owner category wrt to skill level. I'll probably try the procedure on my beater at some point, though I hardly play it since I got the SA...

[Nick Triesch]

If a 1934 $8000 catalin radio gets holes drilled into it, it's value goes down by several thousand dollars. Even if you fix it.

[Nick Triesch]

Look, if you say "it's my mandolin and I'll do anything I want to it" or " I just bought it to play and I'm never going to sell it" that's just not true. Look at the classifieds! Everything is for sale. That's why folks have MAS. Let's say you do keep it, after you pass on now the mandolin will be sold for maybe thousands less than it was worth because it was messed with. Just buy the mid priced mando and carve it up.

[Jim MacDaniel]

If a 1934 $8000 catalin radio gets holes drilled into it, it's value goes down by several thousand dollars. Even if you fix it.

Interesting analogy, but I'm assuming 300WIN won't be giving his vintage Fada Bullet the above described speed neck -- nor be drilling holes in his F5.

[sgarrity]

Nick--

What is behind your infatuation with this? It seems you have made it your personal mission here lately to keep people from stripping their mando necks and telling those that have that their instruments are now destroyed. If you don't like it, that's fine. We all get it! Don't do it to your mandolin. But you're constantly pushing your opinion as fact and it's just not true! Can't we move on???

[Stephen Cagle]

300win I'm with you all the way. Good lord I can't think about people passing on and mandolin's being sold for thousands less. I'm good at thinking about what tune I'm gonna be playing right now. Now look let's be honest here. (I'm not being hateful here at all) .................(alot of) People buy mandolins to look at. (Most) players buy mandolins to play and could honestly care what it looks like. I have owned mandolins that cost 1000 dollars to 4000 dollars. For me- FIRST and always FIRST is volume (I play lightly) tone and then playibility. For most (players) after those things then looks play a part. (ie widdle away on that neck) Please don't get me wrong, I don't want to play an ugly mandolin and hat's off the all the luthiers out there that build beautiful mandolins (boy see how I covered myself on that little comment) however I'm just trying to keep it real. There are folks that buy mandolins for looks and thats ok. Players buy them to play period. 300win uses his mandolin as a tool it sounds like and if no finish on the neck helps him use that tool who cares what that mandolin is going to bring money wise dead or alive. I'm sure he is not thinking of that anyway. He is thinking about how much he can get for the next show he is trying to book.

[re simmers]

I have decided to start a part time business, "The Neck Stripper." I will specialize in stripping mandolin necks.....hairy, vintage necks are encouraged.....like Ernest T. Bass. :cool:

Bob

[Nick Triesch]

Shaun, folks keep putting up posts like the last one. I just hate to see great instruments altered. I do play my mandolin. Everyday. I can play a ton of tunes. But I also like the way both my mandolins look. I keep both of them (Weber Fern, 23 Gibson A type) in great shape for when I upgrade to what I hope is a Gibson F5. If my mandolins are in super condition then I will get more for them. I'll also play some tunes for the buyer so he will know that I have played them.

[sgarrity]

Great instruments are altered every day. How about Strad violins? You know that virtually every one of them has had the neck replaced, right? And then there are Loars.......Grisman, Reischman, Marshall, Thile........they all altered their Loars in some way but still make amazing music with them.

This being a message board dedicated to mandolins, there is a lot of focus on the instruments. I've certainly been guilty of that myself at various points. But it's really about the music, at least it should be. And I've met many, many people that have been playing that same 1983 Flatiron or their 1992 F5L since it was brand new and they have no desire to "upgrade." There are lots of folks that buy a mandolin to make music with and those people have the right to do anything to their mandolin they want, especially if it makes it easier/more comfortable to make music!

[Caleb]

I love my mutilated, devalued, poser mandolin. I'm thinking of getting a fake Gibson sticker for the headstock and messing up my hair to look like Chris Thile.
:redface:

[roscoestring]

I've thought of putting a lipstick pickup in my mandolin. Granted mine is a cheapo and no one would care. But if I owned a vintage Gibby mando and wanted a lipstick in it I wouldn't hesitate. I'd cut a hole and stick it in, even if it decreased in value.

My mother in law once had new flooring and cabinets put in her dining room. She sat the table legs in mayonaise jar lids to prevent the legs from damaging the flooring. She would not let anyone open the cabinets for fear they would get scratched and the hinges would wear and start to squeek. It always seems a little extreme to me. Same with mandolins that someone doesn't want to modify. They are built to use. If they are not doing the job as intended then they should be improved upon through whatever modification the owner sees fit. You can't collect any profit once your gone and if someone inherets the instrument then if they only get 10 cents for it, it's more than they would have gotten otherwise.

[tree]

Hey 300win,

Glad you were pleased with your results! Aside from the body chemistry/neck finish problem that you successfully solved with this project, the fact that you did it yourself is pretty cool. I had similar results with mine, no regrets whatsoever.

Here's a photo of my Gibson F5G, not for sale. DIY job of removing neck finish. Value still appreciating, according to recent insurance appraisal by Elderly's. In fact, the description in the appraisal says "finish professionally removed from neck".

[AlanN]

Wow, tree! Nice job! Are you available for deck work? :))

[tree]

Weeell, I try to keep it simple. Deck's probably a bigger job than I can handle with my pocket knife. :mandosmiley:

[re simmers]

hey tree,
I just closed my "The Neck Stripper" business. I can't compete with that.

Bob

[300win]

tree, looks good. I did mine on both nends to make it look like a more natural transistion from strpped to original finsh, not as rounded as yours is. Nice figure in that neck. I'd like to say something else about this thread. Again I'll state, as long as a instrument sounds great, plays great, I don't care what it looks like. When I play I brush my fingers against the top, { I know thats horrible}, and it does wear a spot in the finish. I've done this on every mandolin I've ever owned, and I've never lost one cent on trades. I know have two very fine mandolins, the best I've ever owned, and I will not be getting rid of them ever, also won't be getting anymore. For what they will be worth when I'm dead on gone ?, don't know, and don't care. I play alot, average 14 hours per week, not counting band practice and the shows we do. We play several outdoor venues. Our instruments get hot in the summer, and towards fall they can get downright cold, but I believe that is something that speeds up the aging process, and makes the sound better. Finally here is a case in point to convey what I'm trying to say; the absoulute best guitar I have ever played in my life was a Martin D-18 vintage 1950, that I picked in a music store in the nearest big city of where I live. This happened many years ago. This particular guitar had huge volume, tone in spades, and looked like it had been drug through a field behind a mule, but gosh was it a cannon ! I only regret that I did not have the means to buy it. If I had I would still own it. I appreciate a beautiful instrument, woman, sunset, etc. as much as anybody, but music is "SOUND" not "SIGHT" ! I rest my case.

[Nick Triesch]

"Drug through a field behind a mule" OK , I'll stop now...like talking to a ..........

[Buck]

300, I removed the finish on my '99 Weber Big Sky (one of the very few instruments I purchased new) because it just didn't feel right. I have other mandolins with finished necks that play just fine, but that one seemed a little "tacky". Anyway, I'm certain I diminished the value (to someone else) while I increased the utility (to me). Seemed like a reasonable tradeoff and I'm still happy with that mandolin.

FWIW, Norman Blake routinely removes the finish on guitar necks regardless of whether it's a 30's Martin or a modern instrument by a premier builder.

[Rodney Riley]

How much would a certain Gibson be worth if the headstock scroll had not been broken off and the logo scratched off? With a knife...:disbelief:

[300win]

"Drug through a field behind a mule" OK , I'll stop now...like talking to a ..........

I did plow with a mule when I was a youngin', so I do know they are hard on whatever is drug behind them including the person holding the plow lines, and best I remeber one of my uncles one time had a mule named 'nick". My dad's were named Bert, Kate, and a couple more I can't remember. Nick you ever drove a mule, rode one, ?. They can be hard-headed and hard of hearing sometimes.

[foldedpath]

My Silverangel has a speed neck, and I really like the feel of it, though I would fall solidly into the "fake speed neck" owner category wrt to skill level.

The "speed neck" name is silly (IMO), and I've never heard that term outside of Bluegrass circles. Fiddle players don't call their bare wood necks "speed necks." Why should mandolin players? It's a term that invites misuse, like the assumption that it's wasted on people who can't play fast.

I never expected a speed improvement when I stripped the neck of my Lebeda. I just like the way it feels on a short-neck instrument like mandolin, where I'm making subtle shifts in a very small area compared to something like guitar. The finish doesn't get in the way. That's why fiddle players like it too. On a purely aesthetic level, my mandolin has a dark brown stain finish (no sunburst). The original neck finish was hiding some nice curly grain in the maple, that I get to see now.
:)

[bratsche]

I think speed neck is a silly name, too - I just call 'em "natural necks". I find mandos with unfinished necks to look more natural and more attractive. My impulse when I see one that's been finished over is "ugh, why did they waste the finish by putting it on there?" It's probably my violin/viola background that causes that reaction. Really, about the only violin family instruments you see that have finish on the necks (other than lightly oiled) are some cheap factory made ones, anyway. It cracks me up when ebay sellers say things like "You can really tell this violin was played a whole lot, because all the finish is worn off the neck!"

As for Nick and his opinions and analogies, let's just say I take them with a very large grain of salt. :))

bratsche

[tree]

I totally agree that "speed neck" is a misnomer. I think it's done far more often for comfort (to resolve individual body chemistry/finish issues) than for speed. That why I did mine, I was sick of hauling around the talc and having to constantly apply and reapply.

However, I do find the comment about the figure in the grain very interesting. My eye has always been very strongly attracted to curl or flame or tiger stripe figure on a cylindrical surface, like a finely tapered Shaker chair post or table leg (or heck, even a mandolin neck). I can't really identify why, but it definitely floats my boat.

[rnjl]

As I've said in other threads, I really like the feel of the unfinished and oiled neck of my Parsons A. I stripped the neck using a pocketknife and three grades of sandpaper- but I didn't put tape around the headstock and heel areas as I should have and it looks a bit sloppy at those points. But never mind- it's not a priceless vintage instrument and I like the feel very much.

Regarding the point about seeing the grain- I have an 83 Flatiron with a gorgeous striped and back and neck, and I'm seriously considering taking the finish off the neck but I worry that i'd lose the stripes of the grain, or whatever it is that gives it its unique appearance. I also have some ambivalence about doing this to a rare and desirable instrument, but given that I have no plans to sell it after shlepping it around for 25 years. . . . . y'all get the idea.

Thoughts?

(Well, I'm not interested in the automatic anti-neck-stripping perspective. Thoughts pro and con about doing it to THIS mandolin would be appreciated.)

It's a great sounding mandolin and IMO taking the finish off the neck would make it more playable.

[Geoff B]

Look, if you say "it's my mandolin and I'll do anything I want to it" or " I just bought it to play and I'm never going to sell it" that's just not true. Look at the classifieds! Everything is for sale. .

That's not true, and you don't know that. Maybe the person saying it doesn't either, but it's awful rude to posit such an absolute statement. I agree with you that it's a shame to see instruments ruined, but it's hardly ruined with a stripped neck (in absolute terms), although in your mind it is.

A person who doesn't like a stripped neck won't buy one because they don't like it. It's doubtful they'd only pay $XXXX less if the neck was stripped, they'd likely find something else. You obviously would. But there are builders who build them that way (Campanella comes to mind) in addition to other custom builders who will do it for customers (I have, and did to one of my own), so is it still ruined if it that's how it was created?

I was in a jam last night with a mandolin contest winner from Rockygrass and his neck was stripped, with the instrument he won. Maybe you'd shame him, but it would only be ignorance to do so. If he ever sells it, he'll make money on it, and it makes him money every time he plays a show.

If it's true that "everything is for sale" then you'll have no problem finding your Gibson F-5 with neck finish intact.

[Mike Snyder]

Nick said he'd stop, so we probably should give him a chance. Best wishes from my natural wear-pattern F5G and me.