Dealer Etiquette

[dwc]

I am interested in a certain model mando made by company represented by a local dealer. #The dealer doesn't currently stock the model but he can get it. #I would like to order through a local dealer, but I don't want to get stuck with an instrument I don't like if it comes in and sounds off. #By the same token, I don't want to stick a local with a high end instrument he probably can't unload. #Is there protocool for this. #If he orders am I ethicly (not legally) responsible for purchase or is this just one of the perils of being a dealer. #At least with online ordering you have a 48 hr. approval period. #Any thoughts on the th ethics at question here?

[JiminRussia]

Why don't you just ask the dealer? Just be honest with him and say to him what you just posted here and see what he has to say about it. You might offer to pay the return shipping if you don't buy it. Maybe he can get one in for you on an aproval.

[WaywardFiddler]

I'm kinda surprised none of the dealers here have said how they feel.

Jim has a good idea -- try an honest discussion about your concerns and see what the dealer says. A good dealer is going to try to treat a good customer fairly. A lot may depend on the manufacturer's dealer return policy. You don't know until you ask.

Perhaps this might be a case for a "non-refundable deposit". You have an out if it turns out to be a klinker, and the dealer gets some compensation if you decide to pass on it.

[dwc]

Thank you to both of you. I think I wll try a combination of the two ideas and see where that goes. I was a little suprised no dealers rang in, but perhaps there is no real established protocool. I just wanted to make sure that I did the right thing. Thanks again.

[mrbook]

I wouldn't ask a dealer to special order something that I wasn't planning to buy, and I would be planning to purchase it when it arrives. Dealers usually put their money in merchandise they think their customers will buy, so if it is a different model than ones they stock, they might not want to be stuck with it. Then again, the dealer might not mind - it never hurts to ask. As the buyer, I would make every effort to purchase it.

As a retailer I once had a customer who desperately wanted a rare book that sells for about $2,000. I found one, called him up, and he looked at it but couldn't bring himself to buy (or part with the money). I felt stuck, but told him it wasn't a problem, and found another buyer surprisingly quickly. He then reconsidered and wanted another copy, and again I found one - of course, the same thing happened again. When a third copy came my way, he didn't get a call. Most dealers will go out of their way for a customer, but it is with the expectation of making a sale.

[Mando Medic]

Mr. Book, Well said!
I have a retail and a repair operation. I too list instruments for sale here on MC. I have had a 48 hour approval period. That is changing to 24 hours. I don't do that at the store. If you walk in and buy an instrument, you have examined it and you own it. I have had customers ask me about a 24 or 48 hour approval on in store instruments, but I won't do it. It's not necessary unless it's a violin. I sometimes suggest that the buyer have their teacher or competent friend come in and try the instrument.
Recently I ordered a Gibson Varnish Fern for a customer sight unseen. When it came in, the customer had some concerns with the bad setup and high frets and runs in the varnish. I took care of it on the spot and the customer was satisfied. He took the instrument and stayed at a motel near by and then returned the next morning saying that the neck feel was all wrong and besides that, he couldn't really afford the instrument and wanted to return it.

Well, I have learned my lesson on ordering for customers. If I have it in stock, you look at it, you buy it, you now own it. If I don't have it in stock, you order it, you buy it, you own it. And unless it has a structural problem that I can't take care of, you own it. Period.

By the way, I took the instrument back for the customer, placed it for sale, and then returned it to Gibson minus a 10% restocking fee. It really was a bad experience for me.

I recently had a customer who recieved a mando on Thursday & on Monday called wanting to purchase for $100 another week to make up his mind & have another mando shipped in from another seller to compare it to........I said no, return ship it today or you own it. I received no reply that Monday. He called Tuesday saying he would return ship it that day & I let him ........I'm with you Ken!...24 hrs pass with no notification of intent to return & it's yours.

Oh yeah......here's how it came back!

[mandoJeremy]

Nice string winding there!

[AlanN]

Good Lord, he needs to visit Frank Ford's site and take "How to string up a mandolin - 101". Prerequisite: you need to have a brain.

[Rroyd]

Yeah, but this way he has enough string to be able to tie it back together if he should break one. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[lindensensei]

I have asked to have mandos brought in, and if not satisfied by what was shipped asked for another. I have been willing to pay the shipping myself. Its cheaper than a plane ticket and the dealer really can't complain. You should put down a decent deposit so that he understands that you are a player and not just a looker.

[Tom C]

I would think... if I store had to order the mando I wanted, and I came in and was disappointed with that particular mando , the store would send it back to the manufacturer and request another. Any other reason like too much $ is no good.

[lindensensei]

I understand your position, however so much of mandolin evaluation is personal choice... If the mandolin is beautiful and sweet sounding... but you prefer a woody bark, for example, well perhaps you should offer to split the difference, at least.

If you see what I mean. #If it comes in scratched or defective it would obviosly fall to the dealer to make it right.

[dwc]

Thank you, I understand every one's position and most every one seems to be saying the same thing. If I understand correctly, if I ask for a special order I should be ready to buy the instrument unless something is majorly wrong. Cool. Here's the rub thoough. Virtually every online retailer allows for a 24-48 hr. trial period where you can return th instrument for a refund, minus shipping charges and insurance. To me, that makes online buying less of a risk than buying in from a local retail store. A few people chimed in saying it might be cool if I was willing to pay the owner a deposit. I could see offering to pay shipping both ways to and from the manufacturer plus insurance, but paying anything above that seems unfair to me.

[ronlane3]

Dan, you are right. Mandolins are very subjective, that is why I would have a hard time ordering one sight unseen. I think you are better off just going to a place with a few in stock and trying them out before you buy.

Maybe own of the custom builders could chime in on this situation. Have you had someone want to return your <insert name brand here> mandolin back and ask for a refund? Just curious.

[Mark53]

Mandolin Bros. has a $100.00 deposit right of first refusal policy that allows you to hold an instrument currently on order or a standard ( stock), item not currently on order.
When it comes in if you like it you buy it. If not you get your deposit back.
They know that if you don't want the instrument they will eventually sell it.
These things are way too expensive not to have this kind of option.
Also, these things always sound better in the shop. The only fair way to know how it really sounds is to take it home. I would never buy a guitar or mando without the option of returning it after trying it out at home.

[Big Joe]

Our retail facilities will do exchanges only but not refunds. If you want an instrument and take it home, but for some reason decide it is not for you it can be returned (assuming it is in the same condition as you recieved it). You can have an in store credit or an exchange for some product. We are less firm about 24 hours but we do not do refunds under any circumstance. This is true whether it is shipped sight unseen or one that was tried in the store.

"You can have an in store credit or an exchange for some product. #We are less firm about 24 hours but we do not do refunds under any circumstance. #This is true whether it is shipped sight unseen or one that was tried in the store."

Yikes..... Now that's a tough return policy. Do you do any internet or mail order type sales Joe? I'm just asking, not trying to start another Gibzilla here!

[lindensensei]

I have ordered and ended up buying two different models of Gibson mandolins. #One of the boys up there told me that they are a lot like puppies, each one different but pretty much all alike, too. #I have not only not been disappointed, but truthfully I think a lot of the sound and nature of an instrument comes from how it is played in those developing months, what kind of strings, the setup and a host of other features. #A Mandolin in a store that sounds 'better' than another may only have newer strings. #I think you need to trust in quality and Company reputation, and trust is something I have for Gibson. #I would like to order a Dudd as well, but will probably die from old age before I make enough money to buy one.

[lindensensei]

And for all of that, if I order a mandolin from one of the smaller, private makers, what choice do I have when its ready? #I either love it or...what?

[mrbook]

Some of the qualities people look for in an instrument, particularly tone and playability, are very subjective, and I think that some people who think they know what they want really don't know until they hear it. The shops I visit let me play an instrument for hours until I make up my mind. People who are very particular, or who have to play the instrument before buying, are probably not well served buying by mail or on the internet - dealers allow returns, but if they ship a good instrument that is properly set up, I think they are reasonable to expect the customer to keep it. I have purchased over thirty instruments (for personal use) by mail, never planning to return one, with only one disappointment. Even then, I kept it, but did send the major dealer a note saying I thought it was below the standards I expected of them (no reply, and no more orders from me, although I might try them again for the right instrument). 24-48 hours is a short time to evaluate an instrument; I usually go a week to a month before feeling really comfortable on most new purchases, but a dealer can't be expected to cover that. If you want to evaluate an instrument in hand, you might have to take a drive - it can't always be done from the comfort of your own home.

This is my personal philosophy, but I would not ask a dealer to order an instrument I did not plan to buy - and to take it a bit further, I don't even ask a dealer to try an instrument I'm not planning to buy if I like it. If I have $500 or $2,000 to spend, I don't ask to try the $10,000 instrument, even for comparison purposes - it doesn't need the little wear and tear I would give it, and I have no plans to buy it. I have tried a couple at the Guitar Center or the now-bankrupt Mars Music to see if the instrument of my dreams met my expectations, but they don't mind, I'm more gentle than the teenagers who usually bang on them, and they are never set up properly, anyway.

[Jim M.]

Not bashing any manufacturer here, but every individual luthier I've worked with offered a trial period, even for a very highly customized instrument. I could have returned any of them for a refund for the cost of shipping. If you work with one, ask them about it before you start.

[Tom C]

Yes an individual builder will do that since one can not just go to a store, find one, and if they like it keep it. Buying an instrument at a store is like a contract. You inspected the instrument, you played it, and it met your expectations. As their proof to that, you bought it. If somebody provides you a product or service and you make payment, that means you got what you expected.
-Execpt for movers who will keep your stuff until you pay.

[Jonathan James]

Dan, many of the smaller luthiers like Jamie Wiens have a "satisfaction guaranteed" policy. Copy from his web site reads: #"You will be completely satisfied with your instrument. If you are not, I will: #Build you another instrument that suits. You will have to wait the usual period, but I am dedicated to your satisfaction. Or, refund your purchase price at such time when the instrument can be re-sold."

[mrbook]

Retailers and builders want the customer to be satisfied - it is the only way to get repeat business and referrals - and will usually do all they can for the customer. As a buyer, I purchase something because I have decided I want to own it, not try it out, and if there is a problem I would only want it fixed. If you get your money back, you still don't have a mandolin.

I have asked dealers I visit regularly if they might be getting a model that they don't currently have in stock, indicating that I might be interested in buying one, but also tell them not to order just for me. Sometimes they show up, other times they don't.

[GBG]

I have to say my experience with dealers has been great. A few years ago I was calling around to get quotes on a Martin D28. As an afterthought I called a small local store who told me he was no longer a Martin dealer, but could get a new one in his store in 3 days. He had the lowest price of anyone I called, and told me that if I didn't like the guitar he would send it back. It don't get any better than that. I bought it the day it arrived.

Another dealer called Weber and had a mandolin shipped to them for my consideration. I paid for the shipping but did not buy the mandolin. Couldn't ask for more.

[dwc]

Just a thought, to those who wouldn't even play a mando they didn't intend to buy, would you also not test drive cars prior to purchase. To be fair, many of the instruments we bandie about on this forum cost more than my car, but you better believe I test drove several of the same model, as well as comparable models, before I made a purchase. Is it wrong to do the same with instruments? I wouldn't test drive a car I couldn't afford, and I wouldn't play a mando if I wasn't seriously interested. But I think I should be able to test my options.