The Agony of Decision

[Phil Baiden]

Hi everyone.

I bought myself a cheap (about $100) Ozark 2001 at Christmas to see if I got on with the mandolin. After learning through the Hal Leonard book and discovering the Mandolin Cafe I've realised how great the mandolin is.
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I've also discovered great artists like Mike Marshall, Chris Thile and Sierra Hull who don't get great airplay in the UK.

For the last couple of months I've been saving up for an Eastman 504. I went to my nearest dealer and they only had the 8 series. Now I'm wondering whether I should save for a bit longer and buy a superior instrument. :confused:

I've got a birthday coming up so we'll see how generous my friends and family have been before I make a final decision.

The agony...

[Malcolm G.]

Welcome, Phil!

Ready for too much opinion? Here I go:

You can climb the ladder one rung at a time, or leap frog a few steps.

I've owned over a dozen guitars as I worked my way up to my Martin D28 (which I could/should have bought back in the 60's when they were under $700.00).

When I started a year ago with mandolins, I bought an entry-level Pacific rim which tuned and intonated well enough to learn on. Then I built a Saga A kit to understand a bit more about the little beasts. It also plays well. I found that I love mandolins and want to keep playing.

Rather than continue the old step-by-step route, I've decided to concentrate on learning to play better while I wait for my third and hopefully best, mandolin to be custom built for me by a wonderful luthier I met here on the Cafe.

This is just my humble opinion of course, but I've watched too many folk get caught up in the buying/trading/dealing/selling, woulda-coulda-shoulda thing and almost forget about playing the darn things. I have one guitar student who was a very promising musician. I've dropped him recently, as he has become an obsessed eBay trader/quester (over 16 guitars in the past 6 months) and is learning little or no music. He calls himself a gear head, but I don't think he's learned to play well enough to even judge if his lastest acquisition is better than his last. It only revolves around $ for him now. ie: this one costs a little more than the last so it must be a better instrument. And so on.

All this to say

Patience has its rewards.

Enjoy your little Ozark for a while and see what the future holds.

:)

[nickster60]

I have had many discussions about Eastmans with different vendors . They all seems to say pretty much the same thing. The upper models dont necessarily sound better than the lower models they just have a little better build quality, the woods are also better.

I have a player(Rover Rm-75) which I leave on a stand so I can grab it when ever I want. And I have Weber Custom Bitterroot that a leave in the case and take out when I am playing for a long period. So I guess what I am saying is you will probably end up with a couple of mandolins. Pick your poison.

I do agree with Malcolm dont get caught up in looking for the holy grail that is going to turn you into a Mando Monster. Only practice will will do that. If you give Mike Marshall any Eastman he will sound great.

[JEStanek]

I agree on any given 504 potentially sounding as good, better or worse than any given 604, 804, or 904. They are all carefully made with different trim levels and flashiness of woods. Ideally you can await a store having a bunch and get the best sounding/playing one you can afford.

Jamie

[resophil]

"Agony...???"

There are floods in Tennessee, lots of people on the Gulf Coast are facing the loss of livelihood, the rest of the world has it's share of problems, and you're in "agony" over the purchase of a mandolin...?

Sheesh! Let's keep things in perspective...

[JEStanek]

Well, I think this site is a safe haven to express our anguish over a decision like this. The Mandolin Café isn't here to solve the world's problems or organize a solution to all of the natural and man made disasters. A little hyperbole when spending what may be a large sum of money for a buyer is fine. I doubt you'll find a time when we are safe to fret over these choices when there isn't an excess of suffering in the world.

Jamie

[nickster60]

Phil is in England. Tennessee and the Gulf Coast are certainly have some real problems. But the southeast isnt the center of the universe.

[Ed Goist]

"Agony...???"



Let's all keep in mind that what we're doing here on the cafe is not likely to impact world events. The very fact that we're spending time on an internet forum instead of investing 100% of our free time volunteering to solve the world's many problems is clear evidence that we all, to some extent, live in glass houses. Let's not throw stones.

The OP is clearly using the word 'Agony' as hyperbole. It would be like me saying, "My mandolin playing sometimes causes me agony..." Oh wait a minute...That's not a good example of hyperbole at all! :grin:

[hank]

Hey Phil, Welcome to the Mandolin Cafe'. What kind of music do you like. Do you think you might play later with a friend perhaps on guitar or in a neighborhood jam? Do you think that you will mostly play unamplified? I ask these questions because your answers may help with a more important decision than series #s. Generally speaking folks who play in louder bigger groups suggest carved top f hole instruments for their ability to project and be heard. Again generally speaking(there is always and exception to the rule) oval holed instruments both carved, bent and flat are prized for their fuller sweet tone and longer sustain. When you visit the music store again besides playing both types you might enjoy having someone play an example of both while you sit a distance in front of them to get an idea of what these two characteristics are. Finding out your style,preferences and identity as a musician is half the fun in this wacky world of mandolins.

[Phil Baiden]

Malcolm,
That's great advice. My next purchase was always going to be for a mandolin I could have for the rest of my life - or at least a decent stretch of it. My trip to the store made me think about the possibilities of holding on for a higher model.

Nick and Jamie,
I think I will hold on and save a little more so that I can have a wider choice. I'd resolved to only look at 'A' models but my favourite model in the store for playability and sound was an 814.

Hank,
Thanks for the welcome. I think in the future I'll be playing a lot of different styles (I've half-joked with a conductor friend of mine about playing some music with his orchestra in a year or so). At the moment I think I favour the oval hole sound but I'll definitely take your tip about hearing others play the instruments.

Resophil,
Point taken. I was using hyperbole. Also, people from Yorkshire are well known in Britain for their frugality - for most of us even opening our wallet is "agony". ;)

[allenhopkins]

1. Standard advice: play all the mandolins you can find in your current price range. Decide what characteristics -- in terms of sound, appearance, "feel," prestige, whatever -- are decisive for you. Don't get sucked into thinking higher-priced is necessarily better for you.
2. My experience with Eastmans (currently own four different models): the higher-numbered models aren't necessarily better-sounding instruments. They will have more figured woods, gold-plated hardware, additional binding. I've found all the Eastmans I've purchased to be well-made instruments, very satisfactory for the price.
3. You're thinking of buying a "lifetime" mandolin, but that's questionable, honestly. There are always different, in some ways "better," mandolins out there. Buy one you really like, the best you can afford, but keep an open mind. Musical tastes change, preferences develop, and you can be looking at a different instrument in a few years. I agree that getting into "churning" your instruments, buying and selling and constantly looking, is detrimental to really making and enjoying music. But you're not "marrying" that next mandolin you purchase, IMHO.

As to the use of the word "agony," hyperbole doesn't equate to a lack of social conscience. You won't live or die on the results of your mandolin choice. There are many events in the world that will cause real agony, and I think all of us realize that. But coming down on someone for a bit of exaggeration, seems like an over-reaction.

[birdman98]

I'm on my 4th "LIFETIME" mandolin. :)

[CES]

Phil, welcome...

I recently went through a similar process, and agree it's tough (I'm a cheapskate too, to put it in less elegant terms :) ). There are just so many choices. I ultimately decided to buy a mid-level used A style with F holes by an independent American luthier (I'm from North Carolina). I thought about many options, but ultimately came to that conclusion because of a few considerations.

First, there aren't too many F-style mandolins in the sub 1200 USD range that are significantly better than my Kentucky 675S. There are some, of course, but in this range variability from mando to mando is the norm, and it's not always feasible to play a ton of mandos to find one. I wanted to make a vertical rather than lateral movement in tone and quality. My new mando should be here my Monday or Tuesday, and I'm very excited.

Secondly, my skill level does not warrant a top-tier mando, and my bank account will not comfortably allow for one, either.

My oval hole needs are well met presently by my Flatiron pancake, which I got for less than 500 USD and is easily my best mando currently. I needed a bluegrass-worthy but versatile mando, and a used A tends to get you more mando for less cash.

I also liked the idea of supporting the economy I live in. There are some excellent builders in the UK, whose prices are surprisingly good, especially for flat-topped oval hole mandos. You may want to ask around, or maybe call Trevor at TAMCO, as he knows mandos, seems to have quite a selection, and may have a good feel for some local possibilities that get you more mando without the price tag of a better known "label".

Eastman makes some fine mandolins, and if you like them I would certainly not try to steer you away from them, as it seems they would represent a step up in quality and also provide a mando you may never "outgrow." If you go that route, I'd say to keep saving until you find one that really speaks to you, whether it's a 915 or a 504, or something in between. I'd agree that the higher numbered models have prettier wood and better appointments but there are some sweet mandos to be had in their 500 and 600 models, too.

Good luck, and I would advise you to avoid settling for a mando you don't really love (there are too many good ones out there for that), but also don't sweat it too much...this is supposed to be fun!!

[mandolirius]

As to the use of the word "agony," hyperbole doesn't equate to a lack of social conscience. You won't live or die on the results of your mandolin choice. There are many events in the world that will cause real agony, and I think all of us realize that. But coming down on someone for a bit of exaggeration, seems like an over-reaction.

Agreed. It didn't seem fair to me seize on this post and then compare it with world events. Besides, it's common usage to talk about "agonizing" over a decision. It's just an expression. It's far from saying that a choice of instruments is as agonizing as human tragedy. It's also not a very nice welcome to a new member.

[Willie Poole]

Phil...Keep learning on what you now have and save and save and then play every mandolin you can at all of the music stores that you can visit, when the one comes along that "Knocks your socks off" buy it.....But with some people they always look for something better after they have purchased their "Holy Grail"...Good luck and by all means don`t give up on your picking, things will fall into place and you will be walking on air....Spoken with over 50 years of playing mandolin.....Willie

[F-2 Dave]

Phil, you might check out the classifieds on the cafe. The beauty of a quality used instrument is that you can generally get your money back out of it if you sell or trade up. Also, you can generally get more for your buck by buying used. But, I also understand the allure of buying new. All of the marks, scratches etc. will be your own.