What's involved in a professional set-up?

[kelsonz27]

This might be kind of a newbie question, but what all is involved when you get a set-up by a professional? I hear people talk about it but I'm never really sure of all that it involves. Do they do things that are that drastically different from what I could do on my own or are they pretty minute differences?

[Fred Keller]

Unless you know what you're doing and why, I'd recommend against it. From what little I know and have watched, a pro setup is more of an art than a science.

The goal of a mandolin setup is to find the string height that is best for the player. This involves the height of the nut and the bridge, making sure the frets are level, and possibly adjusting the truss rod to add or remove a little arc in the neck. Slight mistakes in any of the four key areas can result in buzzing (or a few other "bad" sounds), bad intonation, difficult playability (e.g., hard to fret notes), or even a decrease in tone. A good setup can result in a mandolin that not only plays easier but sounds fuller.

Most of the time a pro setup won't cost you much more than $50. If you have issues that need addressing--say your frets are worn down and need replacement or dressing--it could cost more.

Hope that helps and I'm sure others who know more will chime in.

[hubrad]

Alot of the techniques are pretty minute alterations, but the guys I know who are magicians with this stuff are quite non-protective - 'these are things that most people can do, as long as they learn the techniques' kinda comments. You have to remember that these guys have taken time to learn their trade and built up alot of experience.. if you fancy getting into setups, definitely learn on an instrument you can afford to trash(!)
One of my mates taught me to fret-dress over the phone. I'll do it on my own instruments now, but it's way too stressful to go into business!

[Tim2723]

Yes, I would agree with all those comments. A professional set up can be simple things like adjusting the string height and locating the bridge for correct intonation (which the payer can and should learn to do), and it can get more detailed if need be and include adjustments to the neck, nut and bridge shapes and slotting, the fit of the bridge to the top, etc. Some of those are more challenging adjustments. In extreme cases, a set up might even include adjustments to mechanical components like the tuners and tailpiece, and even alterations to internal components like tone bars. It depends on what an instrument needs and how detailed the luthier and payer want to be.

In any case, what we purchase from a luthier or technician is not any kind of magic. We pay for their experience and hard-earned skills. Well worth the price in my opinion. Just being able to physically do the tasks doesn't always mean they are done their best.

[JeffD]

I might try it on my own on an instrument that I didn't care much about, just to learn. But if the mandolin is a player, I'd take it to a pro.

[sunburst]

A set up starts with checking everything out to make sure the instrument is ready to be set up.
Makes sure all the screws in all the hardware are snug and in good condition, tuner bushings are in place and doing their job, and that sort of thing. Look for any damage that needs to be repaired and make a decision on how to proceed. Check the nut and bridge to be sure they are in good condition and repair or replace as needed.
Check the frets for wear and level. If problems are found there, they need to be repaired by milling and re-crowning, fret replacement, neck straightening or fingerboard planing, whatever it takes to get the frets level and the neck straight with an appropriate amount of relief for the player and that's the starting point for the actual set up to begin.

The height and spacing of the strings are checked and/or adjusted at the nut and at the bridge, bridge position is checked and/or adjusted for intonation, more intonation work can be done if needed, fingerboard relief is re-checked and/or adjusted, new strings installed if needed, then it is a good idea to have the owner play the instrument and make any adjustments to string height or neck relief needed for his/her preference.

[PiginaPen]

Sometimes "professionally setup" is just a lie. Many Asian mandos are fine out of the box and just thrown on the wall. Where I bought mine the owner fed me a BS story about the hours of professional setup and new strings justified his high price. I fell for it and later his "luthier" told me he tunes them and that's it. I wondered why the new strings were rusty. I bought a second recently online for exactly 1/2 of what I paid local.

[toddjoles]

Well, it is an art, but it can be learned. Sometimes it doesn't make sense to spend $75 on a set up on a $89 ebay special. My first mando was a bottom end plywood A style Rover (RM25?) and I couldn't justify the expense for such a cheap mando. I went to frets.com, and the cafe and read EVERYTHING I could on mando repair and set up. I went slow to make sure everything I did did no harm. Over the next couple of weeks, I probably had 12 hours of actual time involved to make it a good player. I've since set up 3 more mandos, 1 e-mando, 2 guitars, a banjo, a dulcimer and an upright electric bass. I'm not an expert by any means but it gets easier each time. I also get more anal about the set up each time, the upright electric bass took 6 hours.http://RutmanBass.com

[Folkmusician.com]

I have been asking this question myself. The problem is the lack of a standard. And if there is any sort of standard "professional setup", not everyone adheres to it. :)

"Setup" seems somewhat open to interpretation. Depending on the skill of the person doing the setup, the steps involved (which varies greatly depending on who you have do it), the amount of time taken, and even the tools, you can end up with a great playing instrument that also sounds better, or something that is no better than the factory setup (or maybe even worse). I think the safest method is to ask the person performing the setup exactly what will be done. While this will not tell you how well the work will be performed, you will at least have an idea of what to expect.

This might be a good reference for you:
http://www.folkmusician.com/mandolinsetup.asp

In the bowed instrument world, there are the MENC specifications. While MENC setups are still all over the place, at least there is a basic guideline.


Sometimes "professionally setup" is just a lie. Many Asian mandos are fine out of the box and just thrown on the wall.

While I agree, that many dealers claiming "professional setup" don't do much of anything, It is extremely rare that imports do not need extensive work to play well. This includes the higher priced, quality imports. There are only a couple of mandolins that I sell that are acceptable out of the box. Key word acceptable. Not great. :)

[Tim2723]

And with all that said, don't forget that the player's expectations are a big part of it as well. For some folks, just getting the tuning and intonation right are what matters, while others seek subtle changes and more intricate work.

[sunburst]

Set up is not an art, it is a skill, and as with all skills, study and experience make one better at it.
Most people are capable of learning to do their own set up work, it's not "rocket science", but neither is cooking a great meal and as we all know, some cooks do a better job than others, and professional cooks often do a better job than college kids, though nearly any college kid can learn to be an excellent cook if he/she wants to.

Checking and adjusting neck relief and string height sounds simple, and it is... mostly, but sometimes certain instruments can "mysteriously" present problems that are difficult to diagnose and cure. The experience of a pro can be a big advantage in situations like that.
It's also important to keep set up and repair separate in our minds. A mandolin cannot be set up properly if it is in need of repair, and one cannot expect repairs to be done for the price of a set up. A pro will charge his/her normal prices for any repairs needed and done and then charge his/her usual set up price as well.
In other words, if someone brings me a mandolin with worn out frets, a twisted neck, and a poorly fit bridge of poor quality, I can't set that mandolin up until the repairs are done, and the owner, after first discussing the situation and approving the work, will pay more than a $50 (or whatever) set up fee.

[nickster60]

I own a instrument that Robert Fear setup. It plays very well and he does a great job. I just wish he lived closer so I could have him do all of my setup work.

Nick

[SincereCorgi]

+1 to the folks who are saying that setup isn't intrinsically hard, it's just one of those things that you only get good at by doing lots and lots of them- you've got to make all the mistakes and then learn to fix them, and then learn how to not make the mistakes in the first place. In the same way, restringing isn't inherently hard, but you wouldn't know it from some of the... creative... string approaches that come in.

I do $20 'set ups' on electrics at work, but I'm certainly not experienced enough to do the real thing with the nut files and fret dressing- I stress that all I'm doing is neck and saddle adjustments and maybe tapping a high fret a little bit. I don't charge if the instrument isn't any better when I'm done, but at least it isn't more messed up than when I started. I figure $50 to an ace luthier to set up my mando or guitar is money well spent, and pay happily.