Catastrophe!

[bullrun6]

Just as I was finishing sanding out the gouge marks on the top of my first F5 I noticed that the seam between the two joined halves of the spruce top had failed at the tail end. About two inches have come apart (see photo)...is there anything I can do about it? I would hate to have to start over...Can I work some glue into the joint and re-clamp it, I'm freakin out here....HELP!!!!!!!

Patrick

[crawdad]

I'd definitely try to work glue into the whole break and clamp it up. After that, take a very thin piece of spruce and glue it on the underside of the crack-leaving room for the edge of the top where it attaches to the rim. When that dries, sand the splint real thin. That should keep the crack from running any further later on. Since this part of the top will be supported by the tail block, when you glue it to the rim, the area will be even more reinforced. You have come this far. I'd definitely try and salvage it and I think you can.

[Chris Baird]

That is not good. I would say the join is obviously not strong enough. You could glue it back up and try it but I'll bet it will fail again just maybe in a different spot. The center join needs to be perfect or you will have a collapsed top in the finished instrument. You can work some glue in there and try it but I wouldn't. Start a new one and chalk it up to a learning experience; this is just the beggining of them. Make sure the join is perfect next time and make sure your glue is good and the temperature is right. Aliphatic resin glues don't work well in cold temps.

[Darryl Wolfe]

I agree with Chris. Start over. You might get some brand new titebond and redo the entire joint..but I doubt that's feasible (I've never tried it so I don't know)

[Gavin Baird]

Judging from the picture you posted, the top was not seasoned enough. The way the image shows the curl away and down seems to tell me that the top continued to dry the stress was too much for the glue joint to maintain integrety. This in my opinion is a no go situation. It cannot be forced into position and be expected to remain intact...G

[Darryl Wolfe]

Excellent catch Gavin..if that's just sitting there by itself like that..."it aint dry enough"

[mandolooter]

Glue just doesn't adhere to glue well at all so trying to reglue it with out completely cleaning both sides of the joint is pointless and would result in another sub-standard joint. Maybe let that one sit and cure while you carve the next one and then rip it back in half and reglue for your next one.:)

[PickinFool]

bullrun6, don't feel bad. I'm working on a Stew-Mac A style kit and ran into a similar problem when working on one of the F holes. Apparently I had carved the top a little too thin (I didn't have a real good feeling about the thickness gauge I made) at that particular area. Since this was my first mando, I decided to patch it the best I could. It's only a travel mando for me when I'm out of town on business. If the top collapses, I'll just tear it apart, try and salvage the neck and build a new body. At least that's the plan.

[bullrun6]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I bought two sets of wood from Spruce with the idea that the first one was going to give me some trouble...boy was I right. I screwed up the neck, the sides kicked my butt and now the problem with the top! Even though I should probably trash it what I think I'll do is try my best to repair this one and press on continuing to make mistakes as I go. Hopefully dash 2 will work out a lot better. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks!!

Patrick

[Bluemando]

If the top still has plenty of stock around the outside, couldnt you saw it apart (with the thinnest saw you have) and re-join the two halves. Just an idea. It would be a shame to scrap the wood.

[Yonkle]

OUCH!!

[Luthier]

Yonkle,
You can be such a mensch.....LOL

Don

[David W McLaughlin]

Below is a very rough sketch of how John Paganoni does his tops and backs. He inlays a piece of wood into a trough cut into the top and back at the center seam. It keeps the two halves from ever separating. You might try doing this at the area where you have separation. That way, you can avoid cleats or other wood pieces protruding down into the air space.

[David W McLaughlin]

I just peeked inside of the Pag and see that the visible wood strip is about 3/4 of an inch wide going the entire length of the body, maple on the back, spruce on the top. The workmanship is very clean.

[David W McLaughlin]

Here is a shot of the top though the endpin hole...

[David W McLaughlin]

Here is the back through the endpin hole...

[jim simpson]

David,
I'm impressed with your photo shots! That seems like a really smart building technique and a good suggestion for the separating top problem.