Teens Gibson-hasn't been played in many years

[John Rosett]

I just got a 1919 Gibson A that doesn't look like it's been played in many, many years. The pickguard gassed out long ago, and tarnished the tailpiece cover and some of the frets, as well as darkening the top some. The top arch is perfect, the neck is straight, and it has no cracks or open seams.
I took it to my luthier for a new bridge and a nut shim, and while he was examining it, he touched the brace, and it fell right out! Not really a big deal, since there was no tension on the top, and it will go right back in, but it has me wondering if it's going to have other dried out glue issues as it makes the transition back into the working world.
Any advice would be welcome.

[Rob Gerety]

The brace in my 1916 A4 was hanging by a thread when I got it. Put it back in place and the instrument is fine. Great player. I'm careful to keep it hydrated.

[allenhopkins]

...wondering if it's going to have other dried out glue issues as it makes the transition back into the working world.

Honestly, only time will tell. Time and playing it. From your description, it seems to have been kept in a reasonable environment. If it was stored with string tension on it, but the top hasn't sunk, that's a hopeful sign. On the other hand, if it was stored with string tension on it, but the brace had come unglued, why didn't the top sink, even just a little?

You have a good repair person, and that's a plus. You're just going to have to keep a close eye on the A for the next few months, as you play it. Is a 1919 pre-truss-rod, with the beefier neck? The celluloid deterioration in the pickguard might be a hint of some higher-temperature conditions where it was stored, but old celluloid can go regardless of environmental temperature.

[sunburst]

It's hard to know.
If something like high humidity and temperature caused the glue failure at the brace, that means the rest of the instruments was subjected to the same conditions and other glue joints may be compromised. If the brace was glued with an old or inferior batch of glue, that doesn't mean the rest of the instruments was too. It could have been glued on a different day, it could have been a different worker in a different part of the Gibson factory, there's no guarantee that all the glue was the same.
Unless there is evidence of poor glue in other places (your luthier may or may not be able to see evidence), you'll just have to string it up and keep a close eye on it. It things start coming apart remove the strings promptly and have it repaired. It probably wont "explode", more likely it will be fine, or some seams will gradually start to open and you'll know what to do.

[Gail Hester]

What John said. I’ll just add that it's not uncommon for the transverse brace to come loose after 80 or 90 years of stress and flex. I have however worked on mandolins that the glue has generally failed in many of the joints and have had to systematically re-glue everything. The neck joint seems to be the best indicator of that problem so you or your luthier can check the stability of the neck with the strings off, the neck will waggle a bit if the joint has failed. If it is stable you're probably good to go. Normally with the overall glue failure the neck will pull forward under tension and the strings will be very high off the fretboard at the joint. There will also be lots of finish cracking around the neck/body joint. This is usually a fairly obvious situation.

[Pete Martin]

Probably wouldn't bring it to Weiser, but my A2 and F4 has never had problems in the dry heat there. Cool find John, congrats!

[mrmando]

Here's the mando in question ... 'twas a Grandpa's attic find out of South Carolina. We do know that it belonged to a member of the Lehigh University mandolin club who apparently graduated in 1923. It might not have been played much after that. I'm checking with the original seller to see if I can learn anything further about its history and storage conditions.

57145

[John Rosett]

I just got the mandolin back, and everything appears to be very good. The neck is straight, the angle is good and the action is nice and low. It sounds good now, and I think that when it gets played in a little and the strings lose that zingy new quality, it will be just right. Thanks Martin!

[John Rosett]

One of the cool things about old instruments is the little bits of history that come with them sometimes. Here's a picture of the case and the inside of the tailpiece cover:

[mrmando]

I must say I'm impressed with your luthier's turnaround time! A brace-regluing/fret-cleaning/bridge-fitting/nut-shimming/and setup job in 48 hours ... not too shabby.

There was an 1904-ish blacktop Gibson on eBay recently with a West Point pennant on it ... only the pennant was on the instrument, not the case. (And I thought you had to be smart to get into West Point.) Mr. Koch's personalization of this mandolin was very tasteful, and done in such a way as not to diminish its value.

The person in South Carolina from whom I obtained this mandolin said it belonged to his late grandfather, who kept it for many years in his home in upstate New York. The grandfather was not named George S. Koch, however ... so he must have acquired the instrument secondhand, perhaps from Mr. Koch himself, sometime after 1923.

[John Rosett]

The mandolin had it's first gig in who knows how many years last night. We were playing at a winery, and played outside for our first set. When we started, we were in the shade, but as the sun lowered in the sky, it was right on me and the mandolin. After maybe five minutes of direct sun on the face of the mandolin, it gave out a loud "pop"! Nothing seemed to be wrong with it, but I did move back into the shade. We played our second set inside, and the mandolin stayed perfectly in tune the whole hour and a half and sounded great. Everybody commented on how great it sounded, and I was pretty happy, but still thinking about the pop. I got home and got out the mirror and flashlight, and sure enough, the brace had popped loose on the treble side. Of course, I loosened the strings right away. I'm really hoping that it was my own stupidity in not moving out of the sun more quickly, and that the brace will stay when it gets glued back in. I should also mention that I got a little Planet Waves case humidifier just the day before.
I've seen other old Gibsons that couldn't hold up and would repeatedly pop the brace, but they had thin tops that appeared sunken. This one has no visible distortion of the top, and held tuning for an hour and a half's worth of vigorous playing after the brace let go, so I'm hopeful. I'll be taking it back to be reglued in a couple of hours. Any Thoughts?

[Michael Lewis]

The old glue needs to be mostly cleared from the surfaces as too much glue is never a good thing. This should be hot hide glue for reinstalling the brace, as that is what it was originally put in with, plus, other glues don't adhere well to hide glue. Hot water in a swab or rag will melt the old glue. Take care to avoid too much water on the old wood as it can cause swelling and finish deterioration as well as distortion of the wood. Apply only on the footprint of the brace. The brace must be held in motionless contact as the glue dries. I would let it dry for a couple days after such treatment.

[Rob Gerety]

I understand that some - or at least one - luthier with a good deal of experience with these old Gibson A's will move the transverse brace a small amount if it needs to be re-glued - maybe slightly toward the tailpiece? Something about improved performance both structurally and sonically. Have you all ever heard of that? Or tried it? I know there is the issue of originality.

[sunburst]

I agree with Michael. The wood needs to be cleaned, the brace re-fit to the top, and re-glued again.
De-Glue-Goo would be a good product for removing the old glue. It will avoid the danger to the wood from using water.
I suspect something in the process of the repair may have been left out or not too well done when the brace was re-glued, but I won't say for sure because there's no way for me to know how it was done, other than that it took less than 48 hours.