Tips for trying out instore.

[opendor]

Hi, I'm a new member, and a mandolin explorer. I don't yet own or play, but have been developing a growing interest recently.

My first question is regarding purchasing a used instrument from a local store. The couple of times that I’ve played used mandos in a store I’ve notice a lot of difficulty producing good sound higher on the fret board. Basically, the tone and volume drops out. Is this a sign of the quality or condition of the instrument or just that I’m not playing correctly?

Beyond that, are there any tell tale signs that I should be looking for when trying out a used instrument?

[JeffD]

It could also be that the instrument is not set up properly.

[250sc]

"Beyond that, are there any tell tale signs that I should be looking for when trying out a used instrument?"

It depends on the cost of the instrument. If you're spending less than $500 you should look for good action and acceptable (you judge) tone. In that price range it's un-likely, but not impossible you'll find the tone and volume going up the neck to be as nice as it is closer to the nut. My opinion is you'll find this to be the case with instruments up to the $1000 range to some extent. A good setup can help you get the most out of any instrument.

The best advise I can give is to try as many instruments as you can get your hands on to educate yourself.

[bgjunkie]

If you are looking for an inexpensive mandolin to start on, I (and this is just my honest opinion) wouldn't worry too much about the tone/volume past the 9th fret (that may even be high for a while). Starting out I spent my first two mandolins learning to play tunes that didn't get past the 7th fret. Once I had learned to play better and understood more about mandolins (through this site and playing as many as I can get my hands on), I became more concerned about the volume/tone well up the neck (still don't play past the 12th fret though).

I am sure there are plenty that will say that I'm wrong, but starting out playability should be your top concern. Is the mandolin comfortable to play (easy to fret, neck feels good in your hand)? If you are not comfortable playing, then you probably won't play.

Just my humble opinion. (of course this pertains to an inexpensive mandolin, if you are planning to drop some dough, make sure the mandolin sings)

[theCOOP]

Having gone through this myself recently as a beginner, make sure the mandolin is set up properly (if you're concerned about tone. If you can't tell the difference, it likely doesn't make much difference).

I don't know what else would cause the tone to dimish higher up the fretboard, but having played around quite a bit with the bridges on my two, I can tell you that this is a very good place to start.

On both of mine, once the intonation/bridge was set properly and carefully, the mandolins play(ed) correctly when fretted at the 7th and 12th frets. The strings ring out loud and clear with much sustain now all the way up the fretboard.

Mine are not expensive instruments. (Epiphone MM-30 and MM-30E).

The only other instrument(s) I owned briefly were a couple Kentucky KM-162s. I brought one home and returned it due to finish flaws, and brought home and returned the other for the same reason.

They're supposed to be very good instruments for their price range, but I was unhappy with their tone. They were supposedly set up by a very qualified luthier, so I guess I'd have to blame the instruments. I didn't attempt to monkey with them for fear of not being able to return them.

Perhaps it was their attitude toward the cheaper mandolins which affects the way they're set up, I dunno.

FWIW, I learned how to play a few things before I bothered to look at anything better than a reasonably good used instrument.

Cheers,
Coop

[JeffD]

Would it be possible for you to borrow someone's instrument from time to time or for an extended period, to learn on and to get a feeling for what you like and don't like in a mandolin.

[opendor]

Thanks for the feedback. I have to admit that with no experience and a very limited perspective I'm inclined to get something very low priced and very low quality just to start and learn. I'd rather get something I'll outgrow within a couple of months before dropping several hundred and possibly giving it up in a short while.

[opendor]

If you are looking for an inexpensive mandolin to start on, I (and this is just my honest opinion) wouldn't worry too much about the tone/volume past the 9th fret (that may even be high for a while).

That's a rather reassuring approach, and kind of goes with my instincts to just start playing.

[theCOOP]

Many people told me to not bother with anything cheaper than a Kentucky. Instead, I grabbed a reasonably affordable Epiphone that needed a bit of work and setup.

I'd suggest finding something like this (Epiphone, Fender or Kentucky, etc) used that's structurally sound with working hardware (tuners) but needs a little work to play nice.

There is lots of info available online regarding setup. And if you do it yourself, you'll gain an understanding of how it works and as far as I'm concerned gain a better appreciation for it.

But that's not everybody's cup of tea.

Just keep in ind, there are a lot of names of mandolins available that you're not going to find any info about. As far as price goes, you should also be concerned about the quality of the hardware. You're better off with used $400 instrument for $100 than you are with a new $100 mandolin.

[250sc]

Any good accoustic music stores in your area? That would be the ticket for trying a few things out.

[jim_n_virginia]

Here's a good tip.... ONLY buy from a music store that takes in repair work to accoustic instruments. Your much more apt to get a set up instrument. If not you could always use it as a bargaining chip as in .. "I'll buy it if you'll change the strings and give it a complete setup."

[Greg H.]

I'll go a step further.....there needs to be someone in the music store that CAN play some mandolin. They don't have to really good, but they do at least have to know roughly how to play it. .. . . ..if only because that makes it likely they know how to tune one (i.e. Guitar Center is NOT a priority for mandolin shopping):)

[Fretbear]

The sad truth is that a fine mandolin will often sound as good or better way up the board in third or fourth position, particularly on the bass register, as a lesser one will in open position. It should still play in tune and note clearly (set-up, as people have said) but it may still not sound very good to listen to. It is also more difficult to pull good tone higher up the neck, and pretty much impossible if you haven't already spent a lot of time working on your tone with open strings in first position.

[Jon Hall]

Some of the mandolin dealers, advertising at the Cafe, set up all of their instruments before shipping. If you bought an entry level instrument from one of them you could be confident that you would have a playable instrument.

[theCOOP]

I'll go a step further.....there needs to be someone in the music store that CAN play some mandolin. They don't have to really good, but they do at least have to know roughly how to play it. .. . . ..if only because that makes it likely they know how to tune one (i.e. Guitar Center is NOT a priority for mandolin shopping):)

If for no other reason that, if you can't play it, at least you can get them to play it and if it sounds good then ...

I know it would've been pointless for me to go to a specialised music store and buy my first instrument after only pulling on a few strings myself.

I still couldn't say for sure whether the instrument I have now plays properly. It sounds good and correct to me, but for all I know, it's way off. It's tuned to pitch with an electronic tuner and it's correct at the 12th and 7th frets, I know not whether this is the end all and be all of tuning. I like the action, and I believe the intonation to be correct.

My instructor seemed to like the other MM-30 but he didn't seem to know much about setup when I tried to have a conversation about it. He's more inclined to take it to a shop for anything more involved than changing strings.

[rico mando]

honestly you need the help of someone with playing and set up knowledge. there is no substitute for experience.see if they will let you bring the instrument to a luithier or your teacher.otherwise try to buy from reputable dealer as stated previously.somewhere that specializes in acoustic instruments they have a reputation to uphold

[300win]

Don't always assume that any instrument is set up right from the get-go. Some stores will have everything just right, others won't, and some will be between one way or the other. I've noticed more often than not, that there will not be a good preliminary set-up at all. One thing I've also noticed is the lack of having the instruments tuned every couple or days or so to standard pitch, after all that is where most acoustic instruments are going to sound the best, another thing that bothers me is the large amount of dead strings, I mean how are you going to impress a potential buyer with a instrument that the strings are dead as a door-nail. I know strings cost money as does time on tuning. But I know if I owned and operated a musical instrument store I would invest the time and money to make sure that these two things were taken care of on a regular basis. I myself would think it would increase the sale potential.

[theCOOP]

Don't always assume that any instrument is set up right from the get-go. Some stores will have everything just right, others won't, and some will be between one way or the other. I've noticed more often than not, that there will not be a good preliminary set-up at all. One thing I've also noticed is the lack of having the instruments tuned every couple or days or so to standard pitch, after all that is where most acoustic instruments are going to sound the best, another thing that bothers me is the large amount of dead strings, I mean how are you going to impress a potential buyer with a instrument that the strings are dead as a door-nail. I know strings cost money as does time on tuning. But I know if I owned and operated a musical instrument store I would invest the time and money to make sure that these two things were taken care of on a regular basis. I myself would think it would increase the sale potential.

I agree.

I guess I should've expected when I brought home the first Kentucky, that I'd get the one off the wall...perhaps not. Where I work, unless it's in the box, sealed, it's a display and gets marked down when it's sold.

The strings on this instrument were tarnished and it was out of tune. I asked them to tune it before I took it, and it was still out of tune. There were so many turns orf the strings on the pegs that I couldn't even get my strap under them.

Again, it's like I said. I don't think they have any respect the lesser-priced instruments and it shows. They told me the flaws in the finish are to be expected. Saga dissagreed. Unfortunately, I understand this shop and the owner/luthier, are the most experienced/respected in the area.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

I was in your same shoes late last year. Bought a cheap Rogue, played it for about a week, got hit by a car and had to put it up while I was casted up. During that time I bought a Kentucky KM-174 strictly out of paranoia from reading about cheap instruments on the net. (Of course I bought another cheapie, just a more respected and well built one)

I played and played and neither sounded right. Then I heard my instructor play them. They sounded great. Someone outside the room asked what kind of mando it was. I then knew it was me.

Fast forward a couple of months and I'm learning not only the music, but my (cheap) instrument. Yes it's cheap, but it's still light years ahead of my abilities. And I don't feel bad schlepping it around in a tennis racket bag. I dont feel bad that it sits in my apartment in the dead of winter with the windows open. But I love it. It's my buddy. And as I learn its deficiencies, it shows me mine. But we both know someday, probably soon, it will take a backseat to a custom made instrument. But we also know who will be sitting by that campfire or on that kayak together for many years to come. It may have come from China, made of sub-standard parts by people who very well could be building ipods next week, but it shows me things i want to know and learn. It doesn't get mad at me nor do I feel bad for tossing it half sticking out of a backpack for a weekend train trip.

Don't get me wrong, a fine instrument is a fine instrument and a work of a art, a thing of beauty in a lot of cases. But until you can bring out the inner beauty that the artist lovingly built and designed into it, you'd be just as well off with a good hard working travel buddy.

Just my two cents, from a pocket soon to be drained for that custom work, but also from the pocket of someone who is still years off of truly exploiting and showing off what that custom work can do. For me it's the journey and like many of lifes journeys, my favorite ones were with my old dog, half wolf half lab. Not a showpiece, not a well groomed animal, but one that enjoyed every minute of it with me without a worry to be had. But, as always, the my best journey's were spontaneous, much like my purchase of this little oval next to me.

[Ron Hale]

Great post, man.

Ronnie

[theCOOP]

Great post, man.

Ronnie

Ditto. Poetic even.

[Gelsenbury]

I played and played and neither sounded right. Then I heard my instructor play them. They sounded great. Someone outside the room asked what kind of mando it was. I then knew it was me.

Fast forward a couple of months and I'm learning not only the music, but my (cheap) instrument. Yes it's cheap, but it's still light years ahead of my abilities. And I don't feel bad schlepping it around in a tennis racket bag. I dont feel bad that it sits in my apartment in the dead of winter with the windows open. But I love it. It's my buddy. And as I learn its deficiencies, it shows me mine.

That's beautifully written and a refreshing argument. I occasionally get the impression that the veterans forget (among all their excitement about instruments worth hundreds or even thousands, and about picks that cost about half as much each as my mandolin did) that we all start from somewhere. Some beginners will become life-long aficionados, some will become great players, some will become collectors of high-end instruments, some will spend a lifetime playing away quite happily on the same old piece of wood. Some may decide that mandolin isn't for them. But with all of us, our own technical limitations cause more of the poor sound than any weakness of the instrument. Our place is all about learning to play mandolin. Dreams about playing any particular mandolin for its superior sound and craftsmanship may develop later on, or they may not.

[Jim DeSalvio]

I started with a real inexpensive instrument. Moved on shortly after that, and gave that one away to a new player. I would advise starting with something a little better, and purchasing it from a reputable dealer like the Mandolin Store. It will come properly set up, and give you a fighting change to make a go of it. Something like this:

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8383

Might seem like more than you want to get going. You can always sell it here if things do not work out. Good luck!