Question about mandolins with "long" scale lengths

[RBMB]

I'm looking to purchase a mandolin and have found that I like wider necks (about 1 11/32 is preferred, with 1 3/8 a close second, but who is being picky) and longer scale length. (I am looking at mandolins, not mandolas, octive mandolins, etc.?) I forgot to ask what is meant by the longer scale length. I tried to figure out what it might be on-line and couldn't really tell. What would be a “long” scale length for a mandolin and are mandolins with the slightly longer scale length commonly available? If they are available, do I need to purchase from a custom luthier or do any of the larger manufacturers (Collings, Eastman, Breedlove, etc.) make mandolins with that scale length? Thanks, Mark

[John Rosett]

"Scale length" refers to the distance between the nut and the bridge. Sometimes, people will refer to mandolins whose neck joins the body at the 14th fret (as opposed to mandolins like the teens and twenties A-styles) as "long scale", because the neck is longer.
I'd say anything with a scale length longer than 14" would have a long scale.

[Steve L]

I think Fylde makes 14"+ scale mandolins.

[Paul Hostetter]

I believe the usual traditional scale for a mandolin is 13" and that Gibson inaugurated the longer scale, 13-7/8" which is basically one fret longer than the traditional mandolin. There's a limit on how long you can make a scale and still be able to tune the strings GDAE, and that peaks at 15", which is what the old Nationals had, starting back in the late 1920's.

http://www.vintageinstruments.com/photos/inst30/triolmandoful.jpg

[RBMB]

The mandolins I played that had the "longer" scale had larger spaces between the frets than my Weber. Would the Gibsons from the 50's, like an A50, have that type of spacing or would they just have more frets to the body?

[Paul Hostetter]

All Gibsons had a 13-7/8" scale. Which means the spaces between the frets are identical on all of them. Some had necks that projected farther from the body, but that's another issue.

[ptritz]

Some months back, Roger Landes had posted some notes about a new mandolin that Keith Newell had built for him. I believe the scale on that instrument was about 15 inches. As I recall, Roger had initially planned to use it in a lower tuning, but at the time he had it in standard tuning and was having a lot of fun with it.

[RBMB]

So after all this, I measured my Weber and checked the Sound to Earth Website - - my mandolin has 14" scale which is what they list on the website. The mandolins I played yesterday had a longer scale length.

[Paul Hostetter]

13-7/8", 14", whatever. Who made these mandolins you played?

[Rob Gerety]

Why do you want a long scale length?

[thistle3585]

I am having a 14.5" scale instrument built for me that will be tuned CGDAE. Since I've been building a lot of electrics with that scale length, I've found it comfortable to play with a little more range than a standard scale instrument. I can't reach a four finger chord in first position but I'm okay with that limitation. Not sure if I can call it a mandolin or not.

[hank]

Ok, I'll bite. Why do you want the longer scale length on a four course mandolin? I'll assume you have to have more tension in a longer string to get the same notes so you could in theory get set up with a closer action and in the case of the five course get a little more umf in the normally limp c course. Am I missing something here? I don't really see where this is going.

[Steve L]

I'd really like a 14.5" scale mandolin. I play Irish music and I think it would make playing those tunes with open drone strings easier.

[thistle3585]

Ok, I'll bite. Why do you want the longer scale length on a four course mandolin? I'll assume you have to have more tension in a longer string to get the same notes so you could in theory get set up with a closer action and in the case of the five course get a little more umf in the normally limp c course. Am I missing something here? I don't really see where this is going.

On an electric, the 14.5" scale allows for better tension on a C string and it takes the "shrill" out of the A and E strings. On a four course instrument it gives the option of standard mandolin tuning or mandola tuning. I've grown more comfortable with the 14.5" scale, so I decided to have an acoustic built. I'm hoping it will give me a broader range especially being an oval hole.

In terms of where its going, I can't answer that but I find it interesting that a number of musicians are commissioning 10 string acoustics and apparently there is a strong presence of them in the Irish tradition.

[RBMB]

Michael Terris built the mandolins I looked at. There are two of them available at Bucks County Folk Music. I've played a few of his mandolins and they are very nice. Most of the mandolins he builds have a wider neck (1 11/32 or 1 3/8) and what he calls a "long" scale. They are extremely well built and easy to play. Interestingly another luthiers have mentioned to me that they frequently get requests from guitar players too build wider necks. (He told me that after they get experience they frequently want thinner necks, so he doesn't recommend a neck wider than 1 5/16.) I don't really know much about the "long" scale and was hoping someone could educate me. I can see the benefits and problems with a longer scale.

[Paul Hostetter]

Michael Terris built the mandolins I looked at...I don't really know much about the "long" scale and was hoping someone could educate me.

"Long" scale means very little. Please just measure it from the nut to the bridge. There's not much to discuss in the absence of real numbers. Bucks County's "products" include only bodhrans, flutes, Martin guitars, and some ukuleles. No mandolins.

[RBMB]

Michael Terris built the mandolins. He is well known for making banjos. (They have beautiful carving on the back.) Bucks County sells them. I'll measure them the next time I'm in the area.

[EdHanrahan]

Another factor in fretboard width: Keep in mind that a radiused, or curved, fretboard is "effectively wider" than a flat fretboard of the same measured width. That's because the non-fretted strings fall away into a slightly lower plane than the string that you are fretting, thus leaving more room for the fretting finger than on a like-width flat fretboard.

Granted the difference may seem tiny, but when you're already splitting 32nds of an inch...

Of course, simple specs can't define what you will actually like; gotta play 'em a bit to know that!

[JFDilmando]

Bob Altman is making an F model mandolin with a "long scale" neck for Mike Marshall. If you have ever seen Mike's hands, you would understand his interest in having a mando with room for his fingers... although he certainly gets around ok on the little bitty necks that are a streatch for most of us.
It will be fun hearing Mike Marshall on another Altman... !

[RBMB]

Ok. So I've done some more research on this and want to thank folks for all the very helpful comments that pointed me in the right direction. I think the "long" scale comment when I looked at the mandolin came from someone at the store. I think it was historically accurate, particularly given the many folk instruments available at the store. It seems that the long scale probably refers to 13 7/8” scale introduced by Gibson and that is what Michael Terris uses. Weber uses a 14” scale and many other builders are in the 13 7/8” to 14” range. Keith Newell is clearly the expert on this topic from some correspondence I’ve had with him and I am contemplating whether a slightly longer scale would be helpful for me.

[Keith Newell]

Yikes! I am no expert thats for sure. The one thing I know for sure is that when I think I pretty much know it all and have a good handle on a situation then somebody that does know makes me realize I'm a lil fish in a big pond!
Keith