Gibson. New or old?

[Christoph]

This site has been so helpful to me in making a decision on an instrument. For three-weeks now I’ve been researching and scrounging every penny I can get my hands on and I’m so close to buying. I finally narrowed my search down again to two instruments here in the classifieds. First one is the 1912 model A Gibson, and the other being the 2001 Flatiron performer A. Both are the same price. I’ve always been attracted to the look of those older Gibsons and this one seems to be solid but I hear people talking about ‘the problems’ with the older ones. I’m looking to play bluegrass but dabble in other stuff too. I just wanted to post this before making my final decision, maybe the choice is obvious but I’m just not seeing it. Thanks for all the advice, Jim

[MikeEdgerton]

If it was me I'd be more inclined to buy the Flatiron. I happen to love the early Gibson tubby oval hole sound but it wouldn't be my choice if my primary desire was to play bluegrass and dabble in other genres.

[Steve Ostrander]

These are two very different instruments with very different sounds. Generally speaking, The Flatiron with its f-holes is going to be more suitable for BG, whereas the Gibson, being an oval, is going to be more suitable for OT or Celtic. This is not to say that you can't crossover, but you may find it a compromise to do so.

If I had to pick one, I would pick the Flatiron, based on MY style of playing (because I'm not familiar with your style of playing). If I were specifically looking for an oval, then the choice for the Gibson would be obvious.

Just my opinion, not gospel.

[Christoph]

Two votes for the Flatrion so far...

[Fretbear]

They are both nice;
I would also choose the Flatty....

[Rick Albertson]

Flatiron for bluegrass... by a mile.

[Rob Gerety]

Just looked back at some of your old posts and saw that you are a 20 year primarily bluegrass player. For you - I say go with the Flatiron - especially if you are playing jams or playing out. For many many other people - including myself - I would say go with the oval. It would be best if you could play an old oval and a good A style F hole mando and here the difference for yourself. Good luck - you can't go to far wrong.

[Christoph]

Here’s something else I can add. I’m a transitioning acoustic guitar player. I rarely play out and when I do, it’s generally playing along to classic hits. Mostly I play for myself and have a few friends who play big old dreadnoughts as well. We like to go out to parks and mostly improvise. Without really trying, my guitar style has developed into I guess a bluegrass style, inspired by Jerry Garcia on acoustic. So, mainly I would be playing with one other guitar. I’m wondering if the old Gibson sound may go along better in this situation than the Flatty. I feel that I’m trying to talk myself into this 1912 Gibson but don’t want to make the wrong decision. Thanks for all the comments so far.

[pager]

My vote would certainly be to go with the Flatiron. I would not even think twice about that.

Jillian

[Jill McAuley]

I'm a fan of oval hole instruments meself, but again, I gotta agree with most of the others who've responded and recommend that you go with the Flatiron.

Cheers,
Jill

[chip]

Flatson by a mile..i mean Gibiron...FLATIRON! I purchased a 1918 Gibson A and kept it about a month, resold it and bought my Flatiron Performer A. I'm not into the shortened Fretboard that much although I do love my 22 F4. Buy the Flatiron as it will be easier to play and sounds fine...

[Big Joe]

Yep. For Bluegrass the F hole mandolin with the longer fingerboard access is a must. The Oval hole Gibsons are very nice and a joy to play, but not really the right tool for the job. Have fun!

[Greg H.]

I have to agree with everyone else.....the Flatiron is the more practical instrument for what you're wanting to do (it would be an excellent choice as well). I would say an old Gibson like that would be something to get later.... for specific use (you'll end up buying another....we all do that...).

[JeffD]

but I hear people talking about ‘the problems’ with the older ones. I’m looking to play bluegrass but dabble in other stuff too.

Contact the seller of the Gibson and ask if the instrument is having any of those problems.


The primary difference, to me, is the oval hole versus f holes, and for bluegrass the f holes (all else being equal, which is never really the case) are known to have some advantages in playing bluegrass.

Of course you can play an oval hole in BG, quite successfully, depending on the instrument, and if you are a hot player you can easily overcome any criticism or hairy eyeball, and if you are a really really hot player, others will be emulating you, thinking the secret to your unique sound is the oval hole.

You've a heck of a good choice, either way, and seems like you really cannot go wrong.

[Tom Sanderson]

I don't think you would be happy with the oval hole.

[CES]

JeffD's correct in that you can MAKE an oval work in a BG setting, particularly if you're good (which I'm not), but you'll have to work to draw out the sound you want, whereas the Flatiron'll just give that chop and projection to you more naturally...

I found this out at a jam I took my Flatiron Pancake to once while my Kentucky F was in the shop. It was like bringing a knife to a gunfight given the array of guitars, banjos, and fiddles. It's not so much lack of volume, b/c my pancake is quite loud, it just doesn't project; this was illustrated even further by the other mando picker's F-style. A carved top oval will give you more projection than my pancake, but still not to the level of a carved top F hole instrument.

I really like my pancake for playing Irish/Celtic and when playing with a buddy who plays guitar...we mostly play classic rock and country, and the pancake does work well in that setting. I also play a lot of BG on the pancake when I'm playing home/alone b/c it's my favorite mando at the moment. But it's NOT a bluegrass instrument. If you're looking to play any BG at all, go with the Flatiron, as it will excel in that setting but also be versatile enough to play anything else you want.

[Capt. E]

Flatson by a mile..i mean Gibiron...FLATIRON! I purchased a 1918 Gibson A and kept it about a month, resold it and bought my Flatiron Performer A. I'm not into the shortened Fretboard that much although I do love my 22 F4. Buy the Flatiron as it will be easier to play and sounds fine...

The main "problem" with the Gibson you show is the short neck. If you were talking about a Loar era or later A4 I might say get the Gibson. There is a beautiful Loar era A for sale here locally that I have been lusting for...just don't have the 3K for it. Another choice would be a Weber Vintage A, such as the one put up for sale in the classifieds here today. At under 2400 it might be a very nice choice for you.

[Christoph]

Okay, that last post did it for me. I'm going with the flatty! Thanks for all the posts, I probably would have chosen the model A, if I hadn't started this thread. Now I feel confident in this decision. Thanks again.

[Christoph]

Yeah, that Weber is sweet, I've been drooling over it but it's twice over my budget.

[Denny Gies]

I agree with Mike; the Gibson will not give you enough of a bluegrass bite; but the sound is great for other types of music.

[Christoph]

Okay, now it's payment time. Kind of nervous about sending $1025.00 money order in the mail. Any other options, seller doesn't want to pay paypal fees. Has anyone used COD before? Is it a big charge? I talked to the seller on the phone and he seems honest enough.

[Barry Platnick]

You can offer to pay the paypal fees that should negate any concern the seller has about fees.

p.s. it definately sounds like the flatiron is the right choice between the two for you.

[D C Blood]

The right choice, and I've most always sent money with a USPS money order, second day priority...Never had any problems and that's about the easiest thing for the seller to cash.

[fatt-dad]

I haven't read all the replies, but I have a Flatiron A5 and I have a '20 Gibson A3. I rarely play my A3 and play my Flatiron A LOT! It has more power, more volume, more drive, more percussion, more everything. If I'm in a large jam with my A3, I can't hear myself. With the Flatiron, no problems! Oh, I like my old Gibson and I appreciate these instruments for their place in history, but for a daily player in a bluegrass setting - no way!

f-d

[JeffD]

My 1923 Gibson A2 can curl the paint off the wall at 20 feet. I can play it louder than I want to hear it, and it can always be heard. Volume.

But it has a more creamy liquid tone, blendable, more for melody playing, waltzes, aires, fiddle tunes, high lonesome tremolo, than the projected percussive chop of a good f hole mandolin.

I don't play a lot of bluegrass, so for that the A2 can hold its own. But it is not a bluegrass standout.

I think you are going to be very happy with your new mandolin.

[mandroid]

Postal money orders are a good way, cash M.O. , and then ship the box in the same trip to the PO..

[John Evans]

<inflammatory post removed by moderator>

[mandolirius]

<inflammatory quote removed by moderator>

I think a blanket statement calling everything that comes out of China (or other Asian countries) a p.o.s. is a distortion. The fact is that they are making products that serve a certain portion of the market and some of those mandolins are not bad instruments. I know for most of the students I've had over the years, the entry level price range is $400-600. Eastman, Kentucky and other brands are (thankfully) filling that market. American built is fine, but makers aren't really hitting that market niche, other than some flat tops. Also, your comment seems a bit off the mark in this thread since the option was between two "American built" instruments.

[John Evans]

<inflammatory post removed by moderator>

[allenhopkins]

Consider myself relatively intelligent, and have purchased instruments from the US, Mexico, Honduras, England, Germany, Japan, Korea and China. Evaluating an instrument by its country of origin, is a mistake similar to evaluating a person by the same criterion. Lots of junky instruments were produced in America before low-end and mid-range manufacturing went overseas in search of cheaper production costs. As stated above, a student, or a musician with a modest budget, has no other alternative in a new mandolin, besides an imported instrument. And many of the imports give good value for their prices. So let's turn down the xenophobia, OK?

[John Evans]

<inflammatory post removed by moderator>

[Jim Ferguson]

I agree with a lot of the posters.......the flatiron is my choice.
I have a friend with a beautiful 19-teens gibson and it has a beautiful and rich sound but not as "bluegrassy" a sound as what I like and feel I have found in my Gibson F-9!!!! When I was in Ashland, OR a week back I stopped in to Cripple Creek Music & played the old 19-teens gibson they had and also the 1924 F-4 they had and both were gorgeous sounding mandos BUT again....a full and rich sound but not as bluegrassy as what I like.
All a matter of one's taste I guess.
Peace,
Jim

[mandolirius]

I really don't expect a Canadian to understand anything, but at least Christoph is spending a $1,025 on an American built mandolin, rather than a Chinese built mandolin. Glad he narrowed his choices down to an oval-hole Gibson or a Flatiron f-hole. Smart guy!

Why am I suddenly finding myself humming "Political Science" by Randy Newman? :))

[Mike Bunting]

Why am I biting my tongue?

[mandolirius]

Why am I biting my tongue?

Because you're a Canadian and you don't know any better?

[Mike Bunting]

Because you're a Canadian and you don't know any better?

Yes, I am a lumberjack and I'm okay...
Maybe I'll strap on my skis, hook up the dogsled and get back to the old igloo!

[s1m0n]

John Evans
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 11

I see John's been honoring the board with his valuable insight for a good three weeks now.

[man dough nollij]

It's just that Canadians are such an easy target. They're so, well, unamerican, eh?

Mando content: Anyone have tab for American Woman?

[Ted Eschliman]

We've registered this privately and now publicly; we have little tolerance here for this kind of baiting.

Warning issued; expect consequences.

[RBMB]

Did you play both of them? which one was more enjoyable to play? Did you have anyone play them so that you could listen to them and see if the Gibson had the oomph for BG?

I have a Weber with an oval sound hole that has a nice chop to it and that can still hold its own on other types of music. Yesterday I played two A mandolins with f holes that didn't, possibly because of the unusual top woods or the way that builder made them.

[allenhopkins]

In the aftermath of the Vancouver Olympics, no one disses Canadians. Gold medal record, eh?

[jim_n_virginia]

OH MAN WHAT A GREAT GAME! LOL!

Hey I hope you got the Flatiron. Even though I prefer Gibson, based on your two choices the Flatiron sound like a more versatile instrument for you. And also not just a difference in sound the old Gibsons have a much fatter neck.

[Rob Gerety]

I think you need both instruments. You made the right decision. I bet after a while you find yourself a nice old Gibby oval. They are sooooo sweet.