EADG (plus C & F) guitar tuning

[Earl Gamage]

I was thinking about trying tuning a 6 string guitar to:

E just as is
A tune the B string down a step
D replace the G string with a D string
G Replace the D string with an A string and tune down a step
C Replace the A string with a D string and tune down a step
F tune E string up a half step

Have any of ya'll tried anything like this? I know I would have to do a little nut and maybe bridge work. It seems fairly easy to try this way because there is no calculating string gages, but would it be better to figure out the correct string gages?

[Cliff D]

I've messed with various alternative tunings on guitar, largely to find the most satisfactory for slide playing, but there seem strengths (& weaknesses) to every tuning.

It appears you are proposing to tune in 5ths, although (& this my third edit of this post) logic tells me that the F on the bass should be lower, rather than higher than the existing E. Others have tuned six strings in 5ths, as per a mandolin but with two lower strings (I think there has been discussion in other threads) but it is not without its difficulties.

"Correct string guages" well, too much tension might not do your instrument neck much good, so start light, & increase guages to taste. There are string tension calculators out there, & someone who knows what they are about might post a link.

The most interesting question which I think most Cafe members would want to field (& they can then probably be more helpful in their responses) is why exactly are you thinking of doing this?

[mandroid]

Straight 4ths ascending , are closer to guitar Spanish tuning EADGCF low to high. [B+1/2, E+1/2]

note: the descending intervals are 5ths, ...

[Earl Gamage]

Why? I knew I should have addressed that but it might take a couple of pages. Mainly for fun, and to get the guitar tuned like a mandolin (4ths, as I understand it). I've been playing mandolin about 8 months now and I like it a lot more than guitar. I would just like to see what kind of sound I can get out of a guitar tuned in 4ths and if the mandolin tunes I know would directly translate.

And, being able to play in two more keys in the open position (compared to mandolin) would be interesting. Improvising on the guitar tuned in 4ths should be fun, again two more strings so more options but still a sensible fretboard like a mandolin.

And, the evil side of me would like to play a guitar and watch the confusion created by my strange finger positions. This is bad I know but not a serious crime:)

Mandroid, what does [B+1/2, E+1/2] mean? And Spanish guitar tuning is what I'm proposing? Why do they do it that way if that's so?

[Earl Gamage]

Cliff, the F would be lower than the C but higher than the existing E so I would think it would work fine.

Oh yeah, another reason is that I like solos played on the low strings but those are not often heard, and I know that's debateable but to my ears most solos are played on higher octaves.

[Jim Broyles]

Cliff, the F would be lower than the C but higher than the existing E so I would think it would work fine.

Oh yeah, another reason is that I like solos played on the low strings but those are not often heard, and I know that's debateable but to my ears most solos are played on higher octaves.

No, it wouldn't, if all your fifths are descending. The C is already two steps below the existing low E. Now, if you tune: F2 (2nd octave on the piano) - up to C3 - down to G2 (this is the 3rd fret on the standard low E) -up to D3 - up to A3 and up to E4, you can do it your way. Good luck trying to play certain chords.

[Earl Gamage]

Thanks, it can be a little confusing to me. I was thinking chords would be limited, this would work mostly for melodies.

[groveland]

EarlG - I tried just what you're describing a couple years back. Posted here... (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27680&highlight=teleberger) with a couple sound bytes and discussion.

Yeah, the idea's great, FCGDAE, but that low F, well, it's WAY low, like the posts above indicate. I had to fashion a bass string and even then the intonation was never cooperative, and it was more an effect than musical.

But the rest of the tuning was great, like a cittern, CGDAE. As you probably know, the alternative was to put the sixth string on top, as a CGDAEB tuning. That works way better, but you can believe that high B can be fussy. (Special alloy and gauge, see here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=283).)

And another, more famous alternative is that somewhat quirky, but workable, CGDAEG, a.k.a., New Standard Tuning. That's what I resort to when I run out of B4 strings. :)

[Explorer]

I was thinking chords would be limited, this would work mostly for melodies.

As one of the folks on here who uses full fifths tuning on guitar extensively (hello, brother Groveland!), I can attest that one is not limited in terms of chords.

There are ways to play full six-string chords, although they can be rather dense. One can also play five- and even four-string chords. Any chord voicing you can play on mandolin, mandola, octave mandolin, fifths-tuned cittern or mandocello, you can play with this tuning.

As Groveland notes, it's better to go up to the B4 on the high string, rather than down to the F1 on the low string, on a 25.5" scale length acoustic guitar. The lowest cleanly sounding note I have on a 25.5" scale length acoustic is B1, and that's on a carbon fiber Rainsong I recently altered to a baritone B standard tuning.

In addition to the group Groveland linked to, there are several discussions about the tuning. I recommend using the search function for the words "full fifths tuning".

Welcome to the club! Be careful, though... one look at my signature below should tell you how easy it is to get sucked into Full Fifths Tuning! *laugh*

[mandroid]

:confused:

what does [B+1/2, E+1/2] mean?
translation: tuning up ... B plus a half step to C, and E plus a half step to F.
;)

[Cliff D]

People, what initially was proposed here is not a "straight fifths tuning", which is what I was attempting to get my head round late last night. it is more of a "Memphis" varient. Memphis is where one takes a 12 string guitar tuning & uses only the thinner strings, so the strings do not run consecutively low to high. This restricts the compass of the instrument & is not great for solo work, but does produce lush chord sounds. The OP also runs from high to low (which also had me foxed) what is being suggested here is possibly a little more original than meets the eye.

Mandroid, I am interested to hear of the Spanish tuning name. I was aware of the same tuning as the "Jazz" tuning. I have experimented with it, but I am so used to standard guitar tuning I was not able to comfortably adapt.

Earl G, it is the ascending interval that stringed instruments are usually guaged by, thus a guitar & basses are referred to as usually tuned in 4ths (bar the B in standard guitar tuning), mandos, violins in 5ths. What you have initially proposed is interesting, although personally I cannot see many benefits, but do not let that stop you.

[Rob Gerety]

Straight 4ths ascending , are closer to guitar Spanish tuning EADGCF low to high. [B+1/2, E+1/2]

note: the descending intervals are 5ths, ...

I always thought "Spanish" tuning was Open G tuning or DGDGBD.

[Earl Gamage]

Very encouraging responses. Thanks. Now to get some strings and get busy:)

[Explorer]

People, what initially was proposed here is not a "straight fifths tuning", which is what I was attempting to get my head round late last night.

Actually, although I was mistaken in terms of the OP going for full fifths, the tuning IS all fifths except for the bottom string, which is an re-entrant low F2 above the normal low E2. (I don't know if my use of the word "re-entrant" is correct... can it mean a pitch which isn't already on the instrument? *laugh*) The lowest string is an octave above the F1, which would have been full fifths; that makes this variant of full fifths more like a ukulele tuning. *laugh*


it is more of a "Memphis" varient. Memphis is where one takes a 12 string guitar tuning & uses only the thinner strings, so the strings do not run consecutively low to high. This restricts the compass of the instrument & is not great for solo work, but does produce lush chord sounds.

Actually, what you are referring to is called Nashville tuning. It doesn't actually sound lush on its own, so it is normally used along with at least one standard tuned guitar when double tracking or playing together live.

Other than the one re-entrant string for the F2 in the OP's tuning, though, there isn't another string shifted out of its octave. Nashville tuning moves four of the six strings to an octave higher.

Since it's come up, yes, Spanish tuning is open G (low to high, DGDGBD). It's probably the most popular tuning for slide guitar, and is also known as Taro patch tuning by Hawaiian slack key guitarists, for whom it is also a favorite tuning.

----

Earl, I've mentioned this elsewhere, but when I was first experimenting with full fifths, I tuned a normally strung guitar, from low to high, to C2 G2 D3 D3 A3 E4. You have a doubled D note on the inner strings, but you'll easily get the hang of it, and none of the strings are tuned to a higher pitch than the normal pitch of a standard tuned guitar, so no strings will break. I still use this tuning when I'm borrowing a guitar.

Since you can just retune without having to restring, I hope you find it useful....

[Cliff D]

TJ, I salute your past experimenting & apologies if my terminology is incorrect, but I have heard "Nashville tuning" referred to as "Memphis", but if "Nashville" is the more popular term I will run with that in future. I have two guitars set up to play varients of this tuning, one a strat where bass E, A & D are an octave above usual & a Kramer acoustic telecaster copy with the E & A set above standard. Whilst "lush" may be over selling it, I find the sound good, & others have remarked (favourably) on it. Now I have a 'zouk I can produce some very satisfying strummed chords. Only trouble is no pick up!

Oh, & as a uke player, I can advise that a re-entrant G is the term that is usally used to describe the traditional octave higher G string on a uke (some players tune up all the strings a tone, though!), although music terminology does seem to have some, er flexibility.

One day I may go down the road of fifths tuning on a guitar, but four strings tuned in fifths works well for me, & although many other cafe members have extolled the virtues of the five string instrument I do not as yet feel minded to explore this avenue: I cannot ever see the day I order a 5 string electric violin (hell, I'm only just in the process of buying my second bow - courtesy of the advice of other cafe members!).

Tuning in fourths does make for easier chord fingering, unless possibly one is more used to a stringed instrument tuned in fifths, & that is why uke is generally considered easier to play than mando, as far as I can perceive.

Anyway, let us all keep pushing that envelope!