New guy, beginner questions

[Gelsenbury]

Hello everyone, thank you for having me here. Since I'm a new user, I'll introduce myself briefly. I also have some (probably typically "newbie") questions afterwards, if you'd rather skip the intro paragraph.

My name is Dennis, I'm 34 years old, and I currently live in Kent in the south-east of England. I'm from a musical family but had never found anything I really enjoyed playing, and consider myself largely without talent. But since starting a new job a couple of years ago, I've been encouraged by several enthusiastic guitarists among my colleagues to give music another go. Guitar doesn't appeal to me so much, but since I mentioned a while ago that I like the sound of mandolin, we had been half-joking for a while about the day when I'd finally walk into a music shop and buy one. This eventually happened 7 weeks ago. The only model held by my local music shop was a cheap Stagg teardrop-shape mandolin. I instantly loved the look of the instrument, and the low price convinced me that I should really give this a try. Since then, my mandolin has been my pride and joy, and I look forward to practising every day. I'm learning the basics from a couple of books ("How to play mandolin" by Jack Tottle and "Easy mandolin solos" from the Mel Bay range) and some free online videos (Brad Laird at freemandolinvideos.com and Anthony Hannigan at freepickin.com). And at Christmas time, I managed to strum a few chords along to Christmas songs, with my mum on guitar and the rest of the family singing. :) Of course I'm still learning the fundamentals at the moment, but I'm mainly interested in playing Medieval, Renaissance and Folk eventually.

This brings me to my elementary-level questions. The learning materials I have available are very good at teaching me the essentials of playing chords and melodies, the recommended grip on the pick, exercises to make my fingers stronger and more flexible, and so on. But there are some things bugging me, to which I haven't found an answer in my instructions or on this forum so far:

1.) When playing notes, do you always strike both strings with the pick or just one? I always thought the idea was to hit both strings in the course (which I find easy enough on the downstroke but less so on the upstroke). But in some of his recommended exercises, Anthony Hannigan seems to hit the top string on the downstroke and the bottom string on the upstroke. This confuses me.

2.) I find it quite hard to play notes on the first fret (especially on the E string), it seems to require more force than on the lower frets. Is this because I'm not placing my finger near enough to the fret, because my fingers still need to develop strength, or both?

3.) Are there any recommendations on steadying your right hand by planting the palm of your hand near the bridge, touching your little finger below the strings, or letting your hand hover over them? Or is this a matter of preference?

4.) My mandolin occasionally "rings" in an unpleasant and unmusical way when I practise. What are the likeliest explanations for this - poor tuning, poor fingering, striking the strings too hard?

Any other advice for a novice is very welcome. I realise that getting lessons would be the safest way to avoid developing bad habits, but I really can't afford a teacher right now - I'm having to save up for a tuner as it is, and my mandolin strap is an old tie! :D

[Daijoki]

Most is up for opinion, but here's my take (and welcome/enjoy!)

1.) When playing notes, do you always strike both strings with the pick or just one?

** I try to strum both.

2.) I find it quite hard to play notes on the first fret (especially on the E string), it seems to require more force than on the lower frets. Is this because I'm not placing my finger near enough to the fret, because my fingers still need to develop strength, or both?

** Sounds like you need to take your mando for a "setup" which means these sorts of things will be adjusted for comfort. $45 is a typical cost... look for a guitar repair place and preferable one that comes recommended by others you respect.

3.) Are there any recommendations on steadying your right hand by planting the palm of your hand near the bridge, touching your little finger below the strings, or letting your hand hover over them? Or is this a matter of preference?

** I try to hover and/or plant my palm when I need speed /precision.

4.) My mandolin occasionally "rings" in an unpleasant and unmusical way when I practise. What are the likeliest explanations for this - poor tuning, poor fingering, striking the strings too hard?

That's a tough call. You'd need to record/videotape yourself for feedback on that. Post it on YouTube and then post the link here.

[Capt. E]

Hello everyone, thank you for having me here. Since I'm a new user, I'll introduce myself briefly. I also have some (probably typically "newbie") questions afterwards, if you'd rather skip the intro paragraph.


1.) When playing notes, do you always strike both strings with the pick or just one? I always thought the idea was to hit both strings in the course (which I find easy enough on the downstroke but less so on the upstroke). But in some of his recommended exercises, Anthony Hannigan seems to hit the top string on the downstroke and the bottom string on the upstroke. This confuses me.

Yes, you almost always strike both strings. It is actually hard not to do so. It is a rather advanced technique to play only one. Don't try to do that at this poiint.

2.) I find it quite hard to play notes on the first fret (especially on the E string), it seems to require more force than on the lower frets. Is this because I'm not placing my finger near enough to the fret, because my fingers still need to develop strength, or both?

The nut on your mandolin may be too high. The slots for the strings may need to be cut a bit lower. I would recommend finding someone who knows how to expertly set up a mandolin. May be right there in your family.

3.) Are there any recommendations on steadying your right hand by planting the palm of your hand near the bridge, touching your little finger below the strings, or letting your hand hover over them? Or is this a matter of preference?

I use a McClung style armrest where my forearm rests on the lower edge of the body just above the tailpiece. Many people stabalize by placing the heel of their right hand on the tailpiece itself. Time will also allow you to develop a sense of your hand position, but establishing a solid starting point is also important.
4.) My mandolin occasionally "rings" in an unpleasant and unmusical way when I practise. What are the likeliest explanations for this - poor tuning, poor fingering, striking the strings too hard?

Again, probably simply a result of inaccurate fretting. Can also be helped by a good set-up. I suspect your mandolin could use one and it will make a big difference in ease of play.

Any other advice for a novice is very welcome. I realise that getting lessons would be the safest way to avoid developing bad habits, but I really can't afford a teacher right now - I'm having to save up for a tuner as it is, and my mandolin strap is an old tie! :D

You have a good head start having a musical family and a built in support system. I too had never seriously pursued a musical instrument until about 4 years ago with the exception of harmonicas etc. First was a melodeon and then the mandolin. Like you guitar never attracted me very much, but mandolin is an entirely different matter. It is never too late and will be a life long love.

John
Austin TX

[Eric F.]

Dennis, here is a Web site that offers a world of information on the care and feeding of stringed instruments. It might help you make some adjustments to yours. www.frets.com

[AlanN]

For #4, sounds like it could be the wolf tones from the bridge-to-tailpiece area. A quick test is finger simple 2-finger G chord with left hand, strike all four strings. Immediately mute all 4 strings with left hand. Do you hear the unpleasant sound? Then, do the same thing, and immediately mute the bridge-to-tailpiece area. Does the sound stop? If so, you have ringing going on down there. Weave a piece of leather through that area, should take care of it.

[Gelsenbury]

Thank you all for the friendly welcome and the good advice. I never understood what a setup involved, other than initial tuning. Nobody in my local store plays mandolin, but I'll keep my eyes open to have an option if that turns out to be the problem.

Perhaps it isn't, though. I had a look around the very helpful frets.com pages, and it doesn't look to my untrained eye as if the nut were raised too high on my instrument (which would have explained my problem of fingering at the first fret). Also, since I manage this much better on the other strings except the E, the likeliest explanation for the moment seems to be that the problem is with me rather than the setup.

The same goes for the buzzing noise. I tried the diagnostics suggested by AlanN, and the noise seems to have nothing to do with the area between the bridge and tailpiece. I also found that I get a clean sound when I play the chords very slowly. So I'm probably at fault for the buzzing by placing my fingers slightly wrong and/or (again, this was useful information from the page pointed out by Eric F.) striking the strings at a poor angle. I'll see if the buzzing persists as I improve my technique.

And I'm definitely not posting any videos of myself until I play better! :))

I'd appreciate more feedback on my first question, which only Daijoki has answered so far: Strumming both strings of a course or just the one?

[Daniel Nestlerode]

Dennis,
A decent mandolin instructor will help you through these little rough spots very quickly. The DIY approach takes MUCH more time and effort.

I'm hoping your English (if not Kentish) mando-bretheren will step in and offer some names.

Daniel

[Mandolin Mick]

Hi Dennis! Love England; spend my vacations there.

You should strike both strings, unless your playing split string which is a very advanced technique.

Most of us rest our hands, but in various places.

It sounds to me, from what you're describing, that you need a good setup. Take it to a shop where they know what they're doing. But you may find that a better mandolin may be the answer if it requires too much work.

[Gelsenbury]

You should strike both strings, unless your playing split string which is a very advanced technique.

Brilliant, that's clear-cut and informative! Thank you.

I absolutely buy all the points made here about the benefits of professional instruction, a proper set-up or even a higher-quality mandolin. But you'll have noticed that I'm limited to the low-budget option here (just got a tuner for £8 from ebay - yay!). When I have more money, I'll look seriously into the setup and teacher options. If I ever become a decent player (John's words that this could be a life-long love are encouraging), I'll trade up to a good-quality instrument.

In the meantime, I love my existing mandolin despite all its faults and my limited ability. :mandosmiley: Thank you for your support, keep the good ideas coming!

[Andy Fielding]

I imagine you've gotten this sorted out by now, but in case not:


The same goes for the buzzing noise. I tried the diagnostics suggested by AlanN, and the noise seems to have nothing to do with the area between the bridge and tailpiece. I also found that I get a clean sound when I play the chords very slowly. So I'm probably at fault for the buzzing by placing my fingers slightly wrong...

It sounds to me like your bridge is just set too low and your strings are buzzing against some of your frets. (That is, they're touching frets other than those you're actually using.) You may have thrown off the other fellows here by first referring to it as "an unpleasant ringing" rather than "buzzing".

Cheers, Andy

[Gelsenbury]

Hi Andy, thanks for the reply. These questions are indeed all addressed now.

About the choice of vocabulary ... for someone who has never played mandolin or vaguely similar instruments before, "buzzing" is a technical term. It's difficult as a beginner to call the many phenomena of sound that the mandolin throws at you by their generally accepted names! :D

I do play a different mandolin now from when I wrote the original post, but I still think that the noise was caused simply by half-fretted or poorly fretted notes. I still get this from time to time (especially when trying some of those frankly ridiculous chord shapes created for spiders), but much less often. Progress. :)

[Mandolin Mick]

Dennis-

Glad to hear of your progress! :)

[Andy Fielding]

I do play a different mandolin now from when I wrote the original post, but I still think that the noise was caused simply by half-fretted or poorly fretted notes. I still get this from time to time...
Seems entirely normal to me... I can't speak for everyone, but if I played a mandolin where I could fret all the notes perfectly, I'd assume something was wrong with it.