Tell me about tuners :)

[slausonm]

OK, if you saw my previous posts, you know I am attempting the mass production of 30 A style mandolins with my manufacturing classes. ( I am not a luthier...I should probably have my head examined) I prototyped a number of instruments and because I am doing this on the cheap, I bought some e-bay tuners for a cheap price and used them in the prototypes. They worked OK, but they were not the smoothest of mechanical devices.

So here is my question, what makes a good set of tuning machines for an A style mandolin? Yes I understand that certain brands may be of higher quality, but what makes them so? BTW, I have a background in machining so I understand metal working, so I am not looking for a lesson in tolerances... I ask this question because my brother got me started on this project and helped me out quite a bit. I would like to take one of the 30 mandolins we mass produce and go above and beyond on the fit/finish and accessories like tuning machines without spending a small fortune and present the instrument to him. What are the best value machines I can buy?

FYI I am a flute player so be gentle...I don't play stringed instruments but I am a good woodworker and a pretty good machinist :)

Thanks!!
matt

[EdHanrahan]

Here ya go, from "economy" at $20, up to Waverly at HUGE bucks...

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Mandolin_tuners.html

If I were building one for myself, I'd probably go with the Schallers or Grovers because I know them from years of guitar. Golden Age is Stew-Mac's "house brand" and seems to get a good reputation. Waverly has been the "gold standard" since forever, at gold cost, and is also a Stew-Mac house brand.

I'll leave it to the pros to explain fine points of difference, but the overview comes down to accuracy and consistency of the machining.

Hope this helps!

[martinedwards]

I've stopped using the cheaper 4 on a plate type tuners and now only used the single sealed guitar type. they are SOOOOO much smoother to use, and have the added advantage of if you drill one of the holes a 1/2 mm off they'll still fit!!

[sunburst]

I understand that certain brands may be of higher quality, but what makes them so? BTW, I have a background in machining so I understand metal working, so I am not looking for a lesson in tolerances...

Ah, but tolerances come into play in different ways when it comes to tuners.
Some tuners are deliberately made with looser clearance of the tuner posts in the tuner plates than others. The diameter of the post is turned down on the gear end to fit through a hole in the plate, and the gear is fit on the end of the post against a shoulder that determines the clearance between it and the larger diameter part of the post that goes through the peghead. If the fit of the turned portion is left a little looser in the hole, and particularly if the gear clearance is left a little loose on the tuner plate, the tuners will tolerate more misalignment of the holes in the peghead. Since mandolin tuners are normally "four-on-a-plate", misalignment of the holes will deflect the posts in one direction or another, and since the holes in the peghead are usually drilled by a luthier who doesn't always understand the importance of good alignment of the holes, the "sloppy" fit of the tuners can result in better function than a closer fit, if the holes are not precisely drilled in the peghead. That doesn't really have much to do with tolerances exactly, a loose fit can be done to exacting tolerances, but tolerance is less important in that case than simple smoothness of machining, finishing and plating.
It is well know that expensive tuners with close fitting parts can be frustratingly difficult to turn if they are poorly installed in pegheads with misaligned holes.
So, good installation on the mandolin is as important, if not more important than the quality of or tolerances used in making the tuners.

For you purposes, I'd say you need tuners that are consistent in their smoothness of manufacture, and you need to devise a good method of assuring good alignment of the holes in the pegheads. That's a challenge that should be no problem for a manufacturer.

[mandroid]

Buying a lot 30 count of $60 tuners can be , well, rather expensive,

You will find even the most basic priced ones will get the job done .

more to do with getting 4 holes drilled in the right places.

get the Stew Mac drilling Jig,

as I found , the high precision tuners up the ante on installation precision requirement.

[Bill Snyder]

Folks, he wants good tuners for the ONE MANDOLIN he is giving his brother.

[Geoff B]

I've really liked Gotoh tuners, but Schaller and Grover have worked well for me as well. I hear the Golden Age will do the trick, but I haven't tried them yet. All decent choices and will function much better than the economy ones, without breaking the bank. As mentioned, the installation of the tuner is a huge part of it's functionality, so spend the time to drill those holes correctly (of course, it appears you have the background to manage that task). Good luck and post pics when you've got one, or all 30 complete!

[Paul Kotapish]

I like the Gotoh tuners--no problems in 10 years of daily use. I have Waverlys on a guitar or two and they are excellent, but you really pay a premium. I couldn't say whether they work any better than the Gotoh machines, though.

[Rob Grant]

How about friction pegs? They are cheap, light and easy to install. Just let's not talk about adjusting the buggers!

Hey, it worked for Antonio!<G>

(Image from The Rawlin's Gallery website)

[Northworthy]

Here's my 2 cents worth.

Having used all sorts of tuners Gotoh are the best without getting to the hand made exotic types and a sensible price too, and if you order 'original' tuners from Gibson fo a 1917 'A' style as I did a few years ago, you get them in a Gotoh box at 3 times the price! :mad:

Alan

[mandroid]

In the quantity you seek, 30, the $20 each is said to be $16.51, for lots of 6 or more,
so that will get you up to the price of just one set of Waverly tuners [$495.30]

Perhaps as a Educational Institution there may be better bulk sellers out there ,
perhaps as part of the curriculum, you can have the students track down the best prices,
likely as web savvy as any one here.

after all that's part of the product design and accounting process..

sourcing and budgeting components not made from raw materials.


just a thought , back into my Hole :sleepy:

[Geoff B]

a friend of mine was able to get GOTOH tuners at a good price from DOMO international. There may be a minimum number order to get the discount, but it may be worth looking into. I'll look around to see if I can find more info for you.