Beginners Guide to Selecting a Mandolin - Draft #1

[Steve Etter]

As a result of a thread I started yesterday, I have (humbly) created an initial draft of a "Beginners Guide to Selecting a Mandolin".

I would like to post it somewhere and get opinions/edits/criticizm - I want this to be a quality guide.

Eventually, if we can come up with something that is well accepted by the community as a whole, we might want to ask Scott to find a permanent location for it and offer it up when the question arises.

It's a reasonably long document and one that I think will need several re-writes, so I thought it best not to try to post it as a thread itself. Anybody know of a good location or method by which this can be done?

Steve

[JEStanek]

You could attach it as a text file so any user (mac or PC) could download it and edit it and repost or settle on a format like Microsoft Word, both formats are supported in the Café Uploader.

Jamie

[catmandu2]

That's a good idea, Steve. On the bass site I visit, there are FAQ pages on everything, especially information on CCBs "cheap Chinese basses," etc. Seems like this is the most pertinent info for beginners to any instrument (but, especially stringed ones..

[Steve Etter]

Well then - here it is. Its a Word Document (2003).

Steve

[Steve Etter]

No comments so far??

"Steve - you're an idiot - what the heck is this anyway?"
"Not too bad - if you had any idea what you were talking about..."
"Brilliant. Absolutely Brilliant!"

Something?

Steve

[JEStanek]

I doubt many folks will edit a draft document while they are at work. I'll look at it later tonight or sometime this week. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Jamie

[Alex Orr]

Steve - you're an idiot - what the heck is this anyway?


:))

Just kidding. It's a good idea. Like a lot of folks I'll try to take a look at it when I get home from work.

Gianna Violins used to have a nice guide to buying a mando but a quick look at their web sites suggests they may have removed it :confused:

[sunburst]

First comment:
The order should be 1. playability/quality 2. appearance.

I put playability and quality together because even if the playability is not there when you find the mandolin, if the quality is there a good set up or even minor repairs will give you a playable, quality mandolin.
I think appearance should be a very low priority for a beginner on a budget.

[pickloser]

Hi Steve - I suggest that your organization to be more obvious. For example:

A Style or F Style?
- discusssion
F-hole or Oval hole?
- discussion
New or Used?
- discussion

Other topics might include
Your Budget and What You Can Get at Various Price Ranges
- info on solid woods or laminates and flat tops would be helpful
What to do when there are no mandolins near you
Neck Shapes, Nut Widths, Flat or Radius, Florida and Pick Click
Cafe Sponsors and Cafe Classifieds
MAS, Beaters, and the Resale Value of Your First Mandolin
Changing Out Nuts, Bridges, Tailpieces or Can You Make a Silk Purse from a Sows Ear
- I'd like a new player to know that the essential quality of a mandolin can't be changed that much
Mando Bling (Straps, Tone Gards, Arm Rests)
- things one needs to include in a budget or forego until funds are refreshed

It is my opinion that playability is far and away the number one mandolin priority for a new player. I think you should at least note that there is some disagreement about what is the No. 1 factor in making a choice. I would also recommend a discussion of what a set up is and how crucial a good set up is to evaluating a mandolin.

There is so much good advice on the Cafe about buying a mando. Instead of trying to get the "right" information into your document, you might consider simply noting that opinions differ on many, if not most, mandolin features. After expressing your own opinion or a synthesis of opinions you respect, you could add something like "here's what some Cafe members have to say on that subject." Then you could cut and paste apt portions of posts, including opinions that may differ. Alternatively, if your buying guide were a post or a blog, you could provide a link to particularly helpful posts on different aspects of buying one's first mandolin.

This could prove to be very helpful. You're good guy for taking it on.

[JeffD]

I think its a great idea. It will be very helpful.

Beginners will still want to know where to get a decent F style mandolin for under $75, I am sure.:grin:

[mandroid]

Spell check picked up a few things..

Maybe add a Spreadsheet , and naming models offered by the various brands at each price level,
rising in .. a $50 increment , say.

[OldSausage]

I would like to make the suggestion that you use Google Docs (http://docs.google.com/) to publish the document, and share editing privileges among a few trusted users who are interested in the project. Then it can always be kept up to date, and be always editable and viewable on the web, with no need to download it to view or edit. Just an idea, I use this technique to maintain set lists for bands and it works very well.

[sunburst]

A Style or F Style?
- discusssion
F-hole or Oval hole?
- discussion
New or Used?
- discussion

Other topics might include
Your Budget and What You Can Get at Various Price Ranges
- info on solid woods or laminates and flat tops would be helpful
What to do when there are no mandolins near you
Neck Shapes, Nut Widths, Flat or Radius, Florida and Pick Click
Cafe Sponsors and Cafe Classifieds
MAS, Beaters, and the Resale Value of Your First Mandolin
Changing Out Nuts, Bridges, Tailpieces or Can You Make a Silk Purse from a Sows Ear
- I'd like a new player to know that the essential quality of a mandolin can't be changed that much
Mando Bling (Straps, Tone Gards, Arm Rests)
- things one needs to include in a budget or forego until funds are refreshed


I think an automobile comparison is in order here:
A beginning driver on a tight budget needs a safe, quality car with good steering, brakes, and a reliable engine and drive train. He/she doesn't need alloy wheels, AC, sunroof, CD player (that one can be argued...) and so forth.
I think your list above can be related to;
-basic vs, chrome trimmed
-sedan vs. hatchback
-new vs. used

Can alloy wheels, a spoiler and a flow-through muffler make it run better?

Perhaps a section at the end could get into the differences between mandolin styles and such, but if the idea is to have an outline of the things to look for in a first mandolin, those will be things that will apply to F, A, oval, f-hole, new, used, etc., and bringing all that into the main discussion would be a distraction from the task at hand, and lengthen what will probably turn out to be quite a long guide if it is comprehensive in describing how to recognize quality and what constitutes good playability.

[Lance K.]

Steve,

I think the document that you have produced is a great idea, but I'm afraid I disagree with your ordering of the importance of the four things to look for. My own order would be sound, playability, quality and appearance dead last.

It's true that sound is subjective, but it's important that a beginner likes the tone his or her first instrument produces. Expert players can make a cigarbox sound good, but for a beginner slowly plinking out a simple tune one note at a time, those notes need to sound...nice. Whatever nice might mean to that player.

Playability is also critical--the only reason I put it second is that some of the playability criteria you list also impact sound, and some playability issues can be addressed with a relatively inexpensive setup.

Quality is important, but might be difficult for a beginner to assess. A beginner is likely to equate quality with appearance. You mention that some instruments are made of plywood and some of solid wood, but your document doesn't come out and say that solid is preferable. Maybe you could add some additional information on how to assess the quality of an instrument.

Finally, I think appearance is the LAST thing that a beginner should worry about. A well-used Weber 2K or a Big Muddy looks kinda dumpy compared to a $250 pac-rim f-style with full binding, gold-plated tuners and an eighth-inch-thick glossy finish. And for beginners on a budget, those are likely the sorts of instruments they will be comparing and choosing between (If they're lucky. Most Guitar Centers and shopping mall music stores aren't going to have anything BUT pac-rim plywood f-styles).

I agree that it's nice to have an instrument you're not ashamed to be seen with, but beginners are going to have enough trouble not purchasing "flash trash" without a "beginners guide" telling them good looks are the most important quality to look for.

As long as the instrument sounds good, plays easy, and is structurally sound, appearance is the least important criteria for choosing an instrument.

That's my two cents, anyway, and a bargain at half the price. :)

[toddjoles]

To new comers, it might also be benificial to add something about which instruments are generally accepted in which genre.

For example,

Bluegrass: players seem to prefer F holed Instruments both F & A's. The A will give you more bang for your buck.

Old Tyme: players seem to prefer oval hole instruments, both F & A's and flat top mandos.

Celtic: players seem to prefer flat tops.

Classical: players prefer Bowl back/Neopolitan/Tater Bug style mando's.

Of course there are always exceptions, people play what they have, and what they like.

[Jill McAuley]

Todd, as someone who plays Irish trad music ("celtic music") I would amend your description to read "tend to like oval hole instruments, carved or flat top, but f-holes work just fine too..." If you canvassed a bunch of sessions in Ireland you'd find a variety of mandolin types being used, A style, F style, carved top, flat top, oval hole, f-hole, banjolins, even the odd bowl back! Two fine purveyors of "celtic music", Dagger Gordon, and Luke Plumb, both use mandolins with f-holes.

Cheers,
Jill, playing Irish trad on carved top, F and A shaped, oval hole instruments!

[LKN2MYIS]

Steve -

I think it's a great and generous idea. It will help a lot of people starting out.

Thanks for doing it.

[John Flynn]

Way too complicated! There are just two simple steps a beginner needs to know: 1) Start your first thread on the Cafe' and title it, "What's the best F-style under $500?" 2) As soon as two replies agree with each other, buy the one they recommend.

OK, on second thought, #2 won't ever happen, so I guess your guide is worthwhile. Good effort! ;)

[Steve Etter]

All I can say is Wow. What great responses, ideas and suggestions.

Its going to take a little while to absorb what has been offered up so far and even more time to distill it into the guide, but I will get started right away.

One of the first things I notice as I read all of the responses, is it's clear that there is not going to be a consensus on which category should be #1, #2, and so on. With that in mind, I think I will drop out the all references to "this is more important than that" and just offer them all up as being important. Tell the reader he or she has to decide which is more important.

I especially like and appreciate Todd's expansion on which instruments tend to be used by which genres - I think this type of info is good.

Lastly, I have implemented OldSausage' suggestion about using Google Docs; you can find it HERE (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdP5FtbFcwYRZGh0am13cXhfMGM4Y3JudGhk&hl=en). I currently have it wide open so that anyone who wants to can edit it. Allowing for community editing, I think, is a great idea, so please feel free.

All comments are welcome and appreciated, so if you got em'....

Steve

[toddjoles]

Thanks Jill, if you're involved in the music, you would know. I'll have to amend my thinking. I'm not involved in Irish/Celtic music other than an occasional listen. The 4 or 5 shows I've been to over the past few years that actually had a mandolin (bouzukis and octaves don't count), the mandoplayers all played flat tops.

[bagpipe]

Don't know if it'll be possible to include diagrams, or pictures, but when I first got interested in mandolin, it took me the longest time to figure out what an A-style and an F-style was.

[Big Joe]

I'm not sure appearance is that high on the list. While one likes to enjoy what they have, it is far more important for it to be structurally sound and playable. Appearance is almost as subjective as tone. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really think appearance is only the first step to buyers who have no other information to help them with a good buy.

Second, I am not sure the price point of 500 is a best place to start. I would think raising that to 1000 would be a better range of quality mandolins that may not require a move us quite as soon as a lower priced mandolin. While there are occasional mandolins that are pretty decent in that price range, it is pretty rare. The hardware is usually subpar even if the remainder of the instrument is good. Raising the price a bit might give a better range for the prospective buyer. They certainly have the option of a lower price point, but the expectation that they may have to spend a bit more than 500 for an entry mandolin.

Finally, it should play reasonably from the store, but experience tells us that is not always or even usually the case. As long as it does not have a structural issue that would render it unplayable with a good setup, it should not be a major issue. I would recommend any new player take their new instrument to a good luthier and spend a few bucks to get the mandolin set up properly. It would be good if the luthier could talk to the new owner a bit about what to expect and when to service and how the normal things. What to do when the bridge leand forward. How to tell when it will need new strings. What if it has tuning problems. These are pretty easy to answer and may well help a new player on his new journey.

Those would be the suggestions I may add. I think it is a good project and I applaud you for your efforts. It would have been nice for so many of us to have access to this kind of information when we started. Most of us just dove in and learned the hard way. Thank you again for your efforts and I do think you are on a great path!

[JEStanek]

There's a pretty good glossary (http://www.mandolincafe.com/glossary/) already on the Café.

Here's the advice I give aspiring players looking for their first instrument and some general new to instruments shopping advice. I assume they know nothing about stringed instruments, floating bridges, string gauges, picks. I also figure that $500 is pretty much the upper limit or way above their upper limit for just getting started in a new hobby. If someone told me I had to spend $500-1000 to see if I would like playing the mandolin, I wouldn't be playing today. That's a lot of money for a hobby that you might not stick with.

Don't buy off e-bay/craigs list, etc. Those instruments (if new) really need a set up and new strings before they may or may not be playable (many of the auctions don't offer returns). Buy from a decent dealer in beginner mandolins. If buying online be sure you can return the instrument if there are issues with it. Several of the Café sponsors do that.

When buying be sure your instrument comes set up or expect to spend another $40-100 having it adjusted. Nothing will stop you from learning to play faster than a poorly set up mandolin (except for amputations). In fact, a poorly set up mandolin will feel like it is amputating your finger tips, and if the bridge is out of place or not well seated to the top, it won't intonate or be too quiet. Set Ups are a must on all instruments. Think of them as an oil change or on-going maintenance. You will likely learn how to do some of these things as you own and play your instrument.

Get an A style mandolin for your first one. You get a better instrument for the same money.

F holes are probably a safe-sure bet for learning how to play. You can play pretty much any kind of beginner music on an F hole mandolin and not be disrespected for it. We seem to be a kind bunch to new players, in general.

If possible get as much solid wood as you can afford. Then get as much hand carving as you can afford. You will get better sound and more volume out of an all solid instrument from the same company, in general.

Replace the strings with D'Addario J74s. They are a great place to start. And they wear out fast enough to learn how to change your own strings. I like the method at Frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Mandolin/MandoString/mandostring1.html).

Spend $5 on an assortment of pics from Fender Heavy to Dawg and expect to have your favorite change over the next few months. You can change your instrument's sound more by changing pics and strings than by other tricking out items. This also costs a lot less than a new mandolin.

If possible, play a bunch to see if a certain one fits your hands better than others. If you're in a real store and trying mandolins out ask for a tuner and either see that the instrument intonates up the neck or have that demonstrated to you, only buy an instrument that intonates properly (if budget requires make sure it at least intonates up to the 7th fret).

If possible take someone who plays mandolin (or guitar or banjo) with you. They can at least evaluate intonation and probably tell a better mandolin from a worse one.

If you can buy used from a good store or source you will save money. However, there aren't tons of decent starter mandolins on the used market other than the occasional Mid Mo/Big Muddy and those get snagged pretty fast, often by those of us who have played a while and know how good those Mid Mo/Big Muddys are. Our classifieds have never let me down, but, again, there aren't ton's of $200-300 mandolins there (usually 10X that). Understand that most people do one of three things a) keep their first mandolin as a beater/camping mandolin b) give their first to another new player c) destroy the darn thing out of frustration (you don't want to be in the last category).

So you get your new instrument and it arrives safe and whole in a box on your porch, what next? Bring it inside. Let the box warm or cool to room temperature, then open the box and wait until the contents feel room temp, then pull out the mandolin in the case or inner box, and (you guessed it) wait for it to get to room temp. Then you can open and enjoy your new instrument. This procedure protects the finish, remember, you may not want to keep this instrument and you will need to send it back how it came to you if you return it.

I don't worry too much about tone in first instruments, it will sound like a mandolin to the new player. Learning how to pick the strings, learning some chords and learning some tunes on an instrument that is comfortable to play, holds tune, and intonates well is much more important. Next get lessons sooner rather than later to prevent bad habits.

I think choosing a teacher is even more important than which instrument you buy first. That is a relationship.

I wouldn't recommend naming brands in a user guide unless you're going to update it every couple of years at least. When I first came to the Café Michael Kelly was the it brand, then came Eastman, then J Bovier, then the revamped Kentucky line, now there's The Loar. Certain brands like Mid Mo/ Big Muddy are consistently great first and beyond instruments (but you can only get them used with my $500 threshold).

Why give this advice? I started with a Lone Star that I struggled with for months before I had a set up and lowered the action to a playable height! Then I got and immediately had set up a Johnson all laminate A oval and a Kentucky KM140S (solid wood top only). That's basically 3 starter instruments within about a year. I could hear some difference between the Johnson and the Kentucky but they sounded like mandolins to me. Both were better than the Lone Star to play.

Mandolins are commodities. They aren't people. This isn't a marriage. in fact it's not even a relationship at this point. Like learning how to cook all you need to start is a skillet, a couple of sauce pans, a colander (maybe) and some hand utensils. You need to know how to boil noodles and heat up Ragu before you need to buy an Atlas pasta roller and slow cook a bolognaise sauce.

Most importantly, once you get your well set up inexpensive instrument, have fun. That's the point.

Jamie

[Steve Etter]

bagpipe

I don't know if the Google Docs will handle pictures, but I see no reason to think pictures can't be included with the final draft.

Steve

[JeffD]

Needs something in there about "spend as much as you can afford to". The reason I say that is that a compromise instrument that is hard to play and sounds bad, but saves money, is going to be no fun and ultimate discourage the newbie. Get the best quality you can afford, and you have much more chance of enjoying the instrument enough to keep at it.

[Jill McAuley]

I think Jamie's post hit the nail on the head!

Cheers,
Jill

[mandolirius]

I think it's a bit of a lost cause. There are too many opinions, too many criteria etc. for one "guide" to fill the bill. Rather I think a more dynamic forum would be better. That's why I think a new category called "Newbies" or "Newbie questions" would be better.

[Folkmusician.com]

I feel that there is a major need for a guide like this. Jamie, Great post!

I do like the idea of some images... Maybe "this" is good/"this" is not photos..


I have been working on something similar myself...

Example....

Obviously bad:
http://www.folkmusician.com/imageshires/setup/IMG_0110.jpg

Good:
http://www.folkmusician.com/imageshires/setup/IMG_0114.jpg

And the not so obvious...

Seems ok:
http://www.folkmusician.com/imageshires/setup/IMG_0120.jpg

But.. (different angle):
http://www.folkmusician.com/imageshires/setup/IMG_0124.jpg

What it should look like:
http://www.folkmusician.com/imageshires/setup/IMG_0126.jpg

Then explain what might be considered acceptable at the lower price points so there is not unreasonable expectations for fit and finish on a $200 mandolin. Finish flaws, tailpieces on slightly crooked, necks that are on at a slight angle, etc... All the best mandolins at the lower price points have these issues, yet these are precisely the mandolins a beginner should be looking for.

[foldedpath]

To new comers, it might also be benificial to add something about which instruments are generally accepted in which genre.

For example,

Bluegrass: players seem to prefer F holed Instruments both F & A's. The A will give you more bang for your buck.

Old Tyme: players seem to prefer oval hole instruments, both F & A's and flat top mandos.

Celtic: players seem to prefer flat tops.

Classical: players prefer Bowl back/Neopolitan/Tater Bug style mando's.

Of course there are always exceptions, people play what they have, and what they like.

(Agreeing with Jill's comment here) I think this gets into murky territory. Some genres like Bluegrass and Classical do seem heavily tilted towards one type of instrument. Maybe Choro too. But others like OldTime, Celtic, Blues, Jazz, are not as locked-in. There aren't many high-profile mandolin players in the Celtic genre, but at least one I'm familiar with -- Simon Mayor -- plays a carved archtop F-hole mandolin. I play one too for Celtic music, mainly for the volume needed to kick off tunes in a session, so of course I'm biased. :) If you're seeing band performances of Celtic music with flattops, those instruments are likely to be amplified to make up for the volume difference with other instruments.

If there has to be a mention of genre preferences, I think it needs to be done with a very light touch, and not just saying "of course, there are exceptions." I'd hate to see a newbie who wanted to play in a local Irish session or OldTime jam get steered towards an instrument that's too quiet to be heard among a gaggle of fiddlers and other instruments.

The FAQ or guide idea is great, especially since it will give people a better starting point for asking additional questions here. As for pictures and general maintenance advice, string changing etc. you might want to link to Frank Ford's frets.com site, where much of this work has already been done. The examples shown are mainly using guitars, but most of it applies to mandolins, and he does have a few mandolin-specific pages. Here's his header page on a Mandolin Owners Guide on frets.com (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/OwnerManual/manmando.html). That first link has a nice pictorial on the different body styles, and yes, it also promotes some of the conventions about "this style is good for that music", but there's a ton of good info on this site.

[Walt Kuhlman]

Rather then trying to place instruments in a genre why not describe the tonal attributes of each in a positive format.

Example:

Arch top: percussive
Flattop: sustain

You could make reference in a different section saying something like, 'arch tops are typically found desirable by bluegrass players and flattops in other genres such as Celtic, folk etc.'

[Steve Etter]

As I read through the responses in this thread, I can't help but agree that much of what is being said here is important to for beginner, but I also wonder how much of it is directly applicable to "selecting a mandolin"? How much of it should be kept out of this guide and put into another guide with a different focus? A good example of where this is done is, once again, Frank Ford's site. He breaks each subject down to a specific target and stays on-task. If you want to know more, you go to another area.

Also, I'm thinking to modify the layout of the guide to have two very distinct parts; the first part will be a "Quick Start Guide" that summarizes the high points and the second part will be the "Fully Detailed Guide" that offers explanations, opinions, reasons, pictures, examples, and references. This will give us the opportunity to explain a lot of the important in the detailed section while still giving the short, sweet answers we all want when trying to understand a new subject.

Does all this make sense? Do you agree?

Steve

[Tom C]

There are too many needs,variables..etc. Are you going mention about different woods too? there's too much info that you will not get reading a document - or even book. I would just make a postcard that directs them to this site. :)

[JEStanek]

I honestly don't believe a first mandolin need be concerned with woods and tone subtleties. Maybe for a second mandolin or if someone is starting and willing to spend $500+ those answers would be useful. For the person just testing the waters, a well set up, comfortable instrument that holds tune and intonates is all you need. For $100-200 you can get yer feet wet enough to decide if you want to stick with it. The difference between an walnut and orange osage back are of very limited value to someone who wants to get a cool little guitar like Chris Thile, in my opinion.

Jamie

[Steve Etter]

A major revision is now out HERE (http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AdP5FtbFcwYRZGh0am13cXhfMGM4Y3JudGhk&hl=en) on Google Docs.

I think I have done a pretty good job of incorporating the majority of ideas that have been expressed so far. Some of the things I have done are:

There is now a "Quick Start Guide".
There is no longer a comparative ranking Playability, Quality, and Appearance.
There is now a reference at the beginning to the Cafe and its members.
There is now a recommendation at the end to have a set-up done.

Take a look and let me know.

Steve

[mculliton123]

Speaking as a newbie (only been a member for ~1 month) i'd like to say that i wish this doc was available a lot sooner:crying:.
Could I make just 1 suggestion? Gather up all of the newbie related stuff, like this doc, the glossery, etc etc onto a seperate easy to spot msg board? maybe titled "READ ME FIRST"? I've said before that the Caf'e is a lot bigger than it looks from the outside, and first time users have to find everything by Braill. It took me a while to notice all of the catagories under Resources. I know that some of you do not mind answering the same questions over and over and I appreciate that but I also reallize your time is valuable too (hey, you could be playing).
Also, there is a Newbie social group but again, first time users won't find it and it doesn't answer those deep philosophic questions.
anyway IMHO
Michael

[Steve Etter]

Michael,

The idea of a "Newbies" section has come up and been debated several times in the past and, in my opinion, both sides have some merit. I personally believe, however, that the arguements against the idea are actually better than those for it.

For me, it comes down to this; when you come to this site, the way it is today, you have access to and get opinions and questions from both beginners and pros from all over the world. Everybody is on equal footing. Someone asks a question or expresses an opinion - anybody and everybody who has any interest at all will look at it and possibly respond. No limitations.

On the other hand, if we were to relegate some things to "For The Newbie" section, and others to a "Not For The Newbie" section, the tendancy would be for some folks to go to one area but not the other. How can this be better? To my way of thinking, it can't.

I hope that makes sense.

What I do think is a good idea is the creation of "guides" like this one I'm heading up. I think there are several areas where a guide could answer a lot of common questions and help people out, especially those who are new.

That's my take, anyway.

Steve

[mculliton123]

Steve, i wasn't recommending a seperate section, just as you say someplace for a beginners guide.. Funny, i have had the same conversation with Barbara Schultz this AM in the song-of-the-week social club about how to find out about ABC notation. there is a similliar question from other newbies in almost every thread. Folks who have been visiting the Caf'e since Al Gore invented the internet probably see the layout as quite intuitive. New visitors who claim blue-grass is more precious than mother's milk also would feel right at home after a slow walk thru. But folks like me, new to both the site and the instrument sure would like to see a lot of the info/links etc in one convenient place. like a 'welcome aboard' letter, quick guide to the many boards, where to post ??'s about old mandos, introduce/ reccommend joining some social clubs, things like that. Like the quick-start-up guide you get w/ a new computer. Can't remember when the last time i ever refered to one but it's a good thing to have if you're new or it's been a while.
BTW, i'm irish and tend to ramble, sorry.~o)
Michael

[Steve Etter]

Well Michael, in that case, I absolutely agree.

So, with this in mind, I just spent a little extra time looking around, and I can't find an FAQ Section or any place where "Self-Help" guides might live.

Scott / Jamie / Mike - what do you guys think?

I'm thinking maybe a new forum board, similar to the "Miscellaneous stuff" board, called "FAQ's and Self-Help". To help reduce any new load this would give you guys (in terms of writing FAQ's and their answers), could be a submission process with a survey. Once more than, say 100 people have responded and more than 75% give a "Yes" vote, it gets appended to the list. Same thing could work for "Self-Help" guides.

It's not my site and I hope I'm not stirring the pot here - just trying to help.

Steve

[thistle3585]

There are two types of newbies, one that has a background in music and one that doesn't. Most likely, an existing musician that is adding mandolin to their repertoire is not going to need the type of hand holding that someone that is starting from scratch is going to need.

Some of the questions in the quick start guide would have been lost on me as a newbie. I also wouldn't have known what was the correct answer to those questions or how to use the answers to help me choose an instrument. Most newbies are at the mercy of the music store.

I think the biggest hurdle in buying an instrument, and especially a mandolin which isn't mainstream, is the lack of knowledge by the people that are selling them. Very few people have the opportunity to visit stores that have a large selection and knowledge of mandolins. If anything, I think the best resource for a newbie would be a mentor. Someone that is knowledgeable and can spend some time with the person explaining the various attributes of the instrument. Plus, they could give them the opportunity to meet other players and to play a number of instruments. So, my suggestion would be to create a mentor program or to create a guide helping people identify and contact local musicians that could help them through the process.

In all reality, most people just need an instrument to get them hooked and not discouraged. That can be found in a sub $200 instrument.

[mculliton123]

Steve, thanks for listening to my rebuttal :)) Also, Barbara just started a READ ME FIRST thread on the song-of-the-week group with explanations and links to ABC notation, TABs etc. all really good stuff!! could you link to that too?
Also, thanks to all of you guys/gals with your suggestions and tips. Like thistle just posted there are several kinds of newbies. Myself, i've been playing guitar for over 50 years but only picked my first mandolin 6 weeks ago. an old bowl-back (my avatar) at a local pawnshop. Now i have an Eastman 905-D on order, WUWT??? guess that MAS is contagious even over the net. or because of.~o)
Michael

PS yes, there is a Newbie social group but, you guessed it, it's by newbies for newbies, all asking ??'s that IMHO would be better addressed to the 'elders' at large.
anyway this is a great site, plz keep it up.
again

[Randi Gormley]

I'd like to suggest another piece for the pot, it it hasn't been already. The current buyer's guide assumes the reader has access to more than one mandolin at a time at a reputable music store. I'd add another section: what to do if you don't have easy access to a range of mandolins. All the music stores I've been into have either had a single instrument, or a few instruments from the same company (say, Michael Kelly or Kentucky) in two price ranges, around $100 and around $150. I think it would be helpful to have a section on how to get an instrument when life hands you a limited range of options.

[Brown]

As a relatively non-musical newb (I stopped playing violin twenty years ago), there were a few suggestions that were helpful.

1. For a beginner there is little difference between an F style and an A style in terms of tone and playability. However, if you're on a fixed budget you will get a better mandolin for you money if you go with an A style.I initially wanted an F Style because I just thought that that was what mandolins looked like.

2. An all solid wood instrument will sound better than a plywood instrument.

3. Make sure the instrument is set up properly; improper setup will make playing difficult and unenjoyable. This is a good reason to buy from a Cafe sponsor.

The suggestion to play as many instruments as possible is probably good for a second mandolin, but unless you can learn on someone else's, I don't see the point. I still have no idea what makes a good mandolin and strumming a few won't change that.

I think a list of decent mandolins in a number of price points would be very useful. On the recommendation of a few posters I bought a new KM 505, and I'm very happy with it. It stays in tune pretty well (I tune it once a day), and I'm able to make vaguely musical noises come out of it. It cost about $420, which is about twice what I initially planned to spend.

[mculliton123]

Brown.
Everyone has to believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing. -Unknown (at least to me)
That was W.C.Fields and the original quote was "Everyone has to believe in something; I believe I'll have another drink.":))
Michael

[Elliot Luber]

I took a crack at editing what we had.

[mculliton123]

I took a crack at editing what we had.

IMHO, this is great. very readable, no techie jargon, straight forward info. introduces new concepts in easy-to-understand language.
fantastic job folks.
Michael

[Elliot Luber]

Thanks. Most of that good stuff was in the original. I'm an editor so I figured I'd clean it up just a little.