Heavy Handed Network Admins

[Richard Morrison]

So i get to work today after a 2 week week vacation and when i open my browser do i see my homepage (Mandolincafe)? Nooooooooo, i get "Access Permission Denied, Website filtered as Entertainment Category." Now granted this is a Department of Defense computer and this site isn't work related, i can still go to Facebook ,Ebay and any sports, shopping or music related sites i could find. I've been going to this site at work for well over a year and never had a problem with it loading...i just don't get it.Just another case of Big Brother with his thumb on the little man.:mad: There was a dispute link at the bottom of the page so i went there and it asked me to list 3 choices to reclassify the site as other than "entertainment". It was a drop down menu so i couldn't just type in a classification so i picked Educational, Historical, and Skilled Craft :) I doubt this works, but it's worth a shot. I guess I'll have to find something else to do during the day to avoid actual work.

[catmandu2]

That'll teach you not to think about mandos while at work! ;)

[Richard Morrison]

LOL ,I'm just gonna bring my mando with me and play scales for 8 hours a day...that'll teach em'

[Elliot Luber]

Bring yer Banjo, it'll be the new secret weapon.
I can teach you a work around, but I'd have to kill you afterwards. ;)

[catmandu2]

Bring yer Banjo, it'll be the new secret weapon.
I can teach you a work around, but I'd have to kill you afterwards. ;)

Identify another Cafe-perusing co-worker in the same straits: BOTH of you take up banjos...no, wait...better make that THREE of you take up banjos...(it'd be a movement) and start playing rounds... :whistling:

[Eddie Sheehy]

Weapons of MAS-distraction...

[Andrew DeMarco]

hahahahaha weapons of MAS-distraction!:))

[sunburst]

Well, I guess you'd have to say this site is work related for me!
Anyhow, being sole proprietor, my personal computer is my work computer too... and three guesses who the administrator is...

As for this site being "Educational, Historical, and Skilled Craft", that's undeniable, but work related? at the Department of Defense? Sure it is!:)

[Dave Greenspoon]

I am wondering if this thread could be renamed. I am generally known to have a fairly decent sense of humor, but IMO there is nothing humorous about "Nazi" in any description. It should be avoided other than as applied to Nazis, neo, classical, or otherwise. "Smallminded network administrator" or "IT jerkfaces" would get the point across. In general the level of discourse on the Cafe is outstanding; this type of descriptive language demeans the collective forum as well as offends individuals. For the record, my father's relatives in the Ukraine didn't survive Babi Yar, and my mother's relatives in Hungary didn't survive the Ustashi.

[MikeEdgerton]

...Now granted this is a Department of Defense computer and this site isn't work related...

Being one of those network guys that you are trashing, I totally understand what they are doing but I also know there are a few ways to get around it (that you'll have to figure out yourself). I doubt it would have even hit the radar if the cafe wasn't your homepage. I'm actually surprised they let you pick your homepage, I don't let my users choose theirs. A word to those that have the cafe as their homepage on a networked computer, don't draw undue attention to yourself. I don't spend a whole lot of time looking where people go on the Internet but I get reports every morning that show things like homepage, favorites, etc. for all the PC's that hit the network. Sometimes I even look at them.


...I am wondering if this thread could be renamed. I am generally known to have a fairly decent sense of humor, but IMO there is nothing humorous about "Nazi" in any description

Unless told to change it back I agree with you and it has been changed.

[buckles]

Just out of curiosity.... how many forum members have a job where the employer says it's okay to sit at your desk and read a novel during working hours?

[Scott Tichenor]

I'm going to move this discussion into the General Comments section. I'm sorry you got blocked but it's not a support issue for us, hence the move.

[catmandu2]

I am wondering if this thread could be renamed.

That was my first reaction...but then I thought, why not achieve Godwin's threshold straight off? ;)

[JEStanek]

Testing the renaming of the last post so we can stop the Nazis from proliferating....

[Eric Hanson]

Bring yer Banjo, it'll be the new secret weapon.
I can teach you a work around, but I'd have to kill you afterwards. ;)

From the news link on the Homepage:


The banjo is considered "a deadly weapon" under Colorado law, so Stancato could face prison time, the Aspen Daily News reported.

I guess as long as you are not in CO you can get away with anything.

[catmandu2]

Testing the renaming of the last post so we can stop the Nazis from proliferating....

Still, nazis have been mentioned (Jamie ;)), and we have attained full-on GLT.. :mandosmiley:

[Mike Bunting]

You are at work, why are you playing on the internet?

[fred d]

:)) And they said that Goverment workers are under paid and over worked. I have to use my home computer to get here> But I'm going to Email the state so I can get one of their cars for my next trip:grin:

[MikeEdgerton]

Still, nazis have been mentioned (Jamie ;)), and we have attained full-on GLT.. :mandosmiley:

Actually I don't think so. The OP's opinion hasn't been dismissed, and the thread hasn't ended. Godwin's law would dictate that those things should have occurred and they didn't. In the Godwin example someone is compared to a Nazi or to Hitler, and in this case that really hasn't happened, rather, it's a common phrase used by those that have had to live under a heavy handed network administration. That doesn't make the term less offensive, but it really doesn't drag it to the threshold needed to fulfill Godwin's example.

Godwin's Law (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003/08/rush-newspeak-and-fascism.html)

As for Godwin's Threshold, this thread is already near the top reference if you Google it. Nice work on the search results Scott.

Back to the discussion.

[Dave Hulse]

Try searching mandolin cafe on the google' and using the link. Sometimes that works on our system. :whistling:

[mrmando]

Actually, since a banjo is a deadly weapon, it's work-related for DoD employees.

[jim simpson]

Many years back I was working at a publicly traded corporation when a wiseguy co-worker (and friend) photo'd me with my feet propped up on my desk and Mandolin Cafe on my screen. I wish I could find that photo.

[sgarrity]

You are at work, why are you playing on the internet?

You're kidding, right Mike?? ;) :))

[catmandu2]

Actually I don't think so. The OP's opinion hasn't been dismissed, and the thread hasn't ended. Godwin's law would dictate that those things should have occurred and they didn't. In the Godwin example someone is compared to a Nazi or to Hitler, and in this case that really hasn't happened, rather, it's a common phrase used by those that have had to live under a heavy handed network administration. That doesn't make the term less offensive, but it really doesn't drag it to the threshold needed to fulfill Godwin's example.

Godwin's Law (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003/08/rush-newspeak-and-fascism.html)

As for Godwin's Threshold, this thread is already near the top reference if you Google it. Nice work on the search results Scott.

Back to the discussion.

The OP's topic title made a comparison (or equated, humorously or otherwise) between heavy handed network admins and nazis, an example of someone being compared to a Nazi, IMO. GLT attained! (IMO ~o))

But I think I see now what you're saying...that the comparison must be earnest? Hmm...that takes some of the fun out of it.

[MikeEdgerton]

If you accept that then the law is no longer the law because the result wasn't achieved.

[catmandu2]

If you accept that then the law is no longer the law because the result wasn't achieved.

I will defer to your expertise on this.. ~o)

[Mike Bunting]

You're kidding, right Mike?? ;) :))

:whistling:

[GTison]

"Your Tax dollars at work".
I Vote you should be able to get on the Mando Cafe very American thing to do.

[allenhopkins]

As a former local government bureaucrat, while I sympathize with the OP's disappointment in not being able to research "the best F-style under $500," while at work --

It's not your computer, it's your employer's. The company/agency/bureau/whatever bought it to do its business on. Just as the phone is the employer's, not there for your use in calling your Uncle Fred, and the copier's not there to reproduce your kid's soccer team roster, and the company car assigned to you isn't there to enable you to pick up your dry cleaning. Now I have violated every one of those strictures, but I knew I was bending if not breaking the rules, and when I was chastised for my violation, I didn't feel indignant about it. In the British idiom, it was a "fair cop." When I was working as a civil servant, I'd get calls regarding my after-hours (usually) musical avocation, and my bosses weren't happy about it. They had every right to be unhappy, and I made an effort to keep it to a minimum -- and I felt guilty about it. Not that it made me quit entirely...

And I never thought of them as "Nazis." I save that term for those who seize power through violence and intimidation, glorify militarism and racism, plunge the civilized world into the most destructive war in history, massacre millions of their fellow humans in the name of a perverted ideology, and leave a permanent existential stain on the history of humanity. Any supervisor or administrator I've ever had, would have to work really hard on his/her worst day, to come within a million miles of that.

[fishtownmike]

I don't see what the big deal is. The airline screeners at the terminal from Amsterdam to Detroit on Christmas day were surfing mandolin cafe and nothing bad happened there...........................

[CelticDude]

I suspect most employers have official policies on Internet use at work. I know mine does (State of Connecticut). Also, realize that they can, and most likely do, track EVERYWHERE you go. My suspicion is that if you are not "abusing" it, you can make quick visits to non-work-related sites. But, why give them ammunition if they decide to get rid of you for other reasons?

Yes, it's sometimes silly. I can't get to certain other State or Federal sites, for example, and must fill out all kinds of forms to do so.

Interestingly, I bet I can get to the Cafe from work, although I can't many of the sites the OP mentioned, such as EBay. (And we have had people fired for making transactions on EBay.)

[8ch(pl)]

Once we had a guest musician at our Folk Group, he asked about how "Folk" we were. The MC said there weren't any "Folk Nazis" present, in a joking manner. The guest said that he objects to the flippant use of the term Nazi, since he is Jewish.

[Tom C]

Working for a small company I we have no blocking. When our network is slow, first thing our admin does is ask me what music I may be downloading.

[sgarrity]

I do sales for a medium sized technology integrator, my side is network gear and phone systems. So I'm in front of a computer whenever I'm not in front of a customer. So I get a lot of time on the 'cafe during the day.

We have a very loose internet policy. It's something like don't visit any "naughty" sites and get your work done. We're a technology company so the employees know that everywhere they go can be tracked. We've had a lot of folks on Facebook recently, especially playing the games on it. So one of our engineers decided to be funny.....for about a week when anyone tried to go to FB they got redirected to a website about how to increase workplace productivity. It was hilarious!! We got FB back though!

[Bob Borzelleri]

In my former life as manager of 1,000+ folks in a government agency, I used to have to rule on all manner of policies regarding appropriate use of government equipment including computers.

My basic position was pretty simple. You are paid to get your work done. There were performance standards for everybody and it wasn't all that hard to determine who was meeting them and who wasn't. Some folks who were in good standing on the performance front also liked to use the computer in much the same way people used to use newspapers. They read for education and entertainment. They also tended to manage their time in a responsible manner and they were due breaks from work as a term of their employment contracts. I didn't have a problem with responsible use of computers as long as the work was getting done in accordance with the individual performance standards.

We also had people who didn't do as well in meeting their performance standards. Many of these folks also seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time on their computers that was not work related so we gave the unit managers the authority to restrict "personal" use of work computers until such time as they brought their work obligations up to snuff.

Many organizations avoid responsibility for direct management of employees by utilizing "one size fits all" policies and often by degrading the staff/manager interaction by allowing controlling actions by third parties who are out of the line of supervision (such as network administrators). Network managers have enough to do without being given responsibility for policing non IT employee activities. If someone is abusing a computer at work, that's an issue for the manager of the abusing employee.

[MikeEdgerton]

In a perfect world that works, unfortunately some of the biggest abusers in the organizations I have been in have been those same managers. With that said, I don't disagree with the premise.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

It's been awhile since I've had to deal with an HR department and their BS, but when I did i could simply enter the IP address of any given site and get right to it.

[David Rambo]

As was stated before, our movements on the intenet are easily traced, as are e-mails. The school at which I taught for close to 40 years, is now keeping e-mails on record for 3 years, and has a snooper program tracking all internet usage. There is no reason for this, other than the new Superintendent has decided to do it. Everyone is now looking over their shoulder, and won't even answer e-mails. It's no fun to work there anymore. (So I quit!)

[MikeEdgerton]

Sometimes we think there isn't a reason for something when in fact there might very well be a reason for it that we aren't aware of. If you go to work for a major corporation you're going to find out that they have to retain all e-mail, IM traffic, etc. In many cases it's the law that requires it.

As far as entering the IP address instead of the name, good luck. If that beats the lockdown then you're working with a group of real amateurs.

[Elliot Luber]

My employer encourages me to get involved in Social Media, because our brand is experienced best through the people who work here. My JOB is actually to get others to do this. Having an interest in Mandolin is just one of the things that makes me a human being, so anything I say about my company online comes across as authentic, I'm being myself. Now if I spent my afternoons (working from home) playing instead of working or reading a novel, the company would likely fire me.

[Elliot Luber]

Governments have particular concerns, such as national security and privacy regulation, which makes them more restrictive.

[Tom C]

For those of us employed -rather than retired or rich, Shouldn't we all be working now? Oooops I got an email. Be back soon :)

[catmandu2]

My employer encourages me...having an interest in Mandolin is just one of the things that makes me a human being...

But wait until they see you in full MAS mode.. :mandosmiley:

[Richard Morrison]

Sorry if i offended anyone...i was just referencing Seinfeld's "Soup Nazi". No cafe for you!! I definitely agree that MC isn't related to my job (I'm an analyst for US Special Forces) ,i just dont agree with being able to go to Facebook and Ebay but not MC. I can even go to the other boards that i regularly post on...just not MC anymore. Also, we have a rotational type work flow, so i'll be busy for 2 or 3 weeks at a time but then have absolutely nothing to do for a couple of weeks. So yes, we can read or write a novel, surf the web and even pick a banjer if we want to.:) Thanks for all the input everybody.

[Bob Borzelleri]

In a perfect world that works, unfortunately some of the biggest abusers in the organizations I have been in have been those same managers. With that said, I don't disagree with the premise.

The world doesn't have to be perfect for things to work. Ours wasn't and the policy was well implemented. Part of the reason is that, strange as it may seem, managers have managers too. Accountability either works for all or it doesn't work well for any.

[MikeEdgerton]

You need to spend some time in the insurance business. The higher you go the less accountability there is. Like I said, I don't disagree with the premise, it just doesn't always work that way.

[JEStanek]

Let it be said here, and first, by me ;) "Life is not fair." This way when people search the internet for "Is Life Fair?" Google can return our page, which some of you won't be able to then access when at work, as the page that answers the question.

I'm fortunate that I can come here from work. I have no expectation of privacy of content of e-mails, web traffic, or IMs used at work.

Jamie

[Dave Schimming]

One reason employers are concerned about unrestricted internet usage is the potential for spam & viruses coming into a work environment computer network and the disruption in production as a result and the costs (which can be high) to clean up a virus situation. Just because we know Mandolin Cafe to be a trusted site doesn't mean your employer does.

[MikeEdgerton]

Actually your employer should have the Spam and Virus thing under control on the desktop and at the door, if they don't they have bigger problems than rogue websites.

[Jock]

I have a similar problem logging on here via a vodafone dongle while out in Egypt. Originally when I first joined I was browsing the forum when I got a "your banned for life" message appear on the screen so I e-mailed Scott who kindly took the time to explain that a Scottish e-mail address operating from an Egyptian server had "arch spammer" written all over it from his point of view, fair comment I hadn't thought of that. Anyway I got reinstated at the cafe but to this day I've been unable to log on with my dongle from anywhere in Egypt.

All foreign web e-mail activity is monitored out there, and for good reason, but it seems an Egyptian security person has issue with my assurance to Scott that I wasn't "a ruthless egyptian spammer" (my exact words) :)), oh well never mind. It's tough enough being stuck out in the eastern desert with very little to do in my own time :crying: If I head back out I think I'll change mobile ISP.

[Bernie Daniel]

Mike Edgerton: Being one of those network guys that you are trashing, I totally understand what they are doing but I also know there are a few ways to get around it (that you'll have to figure out yourself). I doubt it would have even hit the radar if the cafe wasn't your homepage.

Mike as a 35 year employee of the US federal gubermint I can sympathize with the OP -- it is very restrictive these days.

Most government comptuters (federal at least) except those in security and defense per se are not goverment-owned or government-run anymore.

It is all under contract now. Furthermore, these contractor system administrators have no reason in the world to give the users (us) extra privlidges and then have a securtiy problem later blamed on the company.

Rather, they have every reason to over-interpret security guidelines created by (already) over-zealous and oft times under informed government security managers.

It is a great example of a lose-lose situation because it DOES impact our work efficiency.

In my agency we can't even defrag the hard drive without an IT person's assistance etc. But on the good side some folks high up in the Agency got a grade of "A" for our security (crossed all "t's" and dotted all "i's") and later got a cash award for making us so safe and secure! :)

Yes there are way around some to these things -- but these days folks can get (and have been) fired for that.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

However, so far I can get to the Mandolin Cafe from my goverment computer but I know this because I accidently logon several times a day. Yahoo and eBay are out though.

[Poener]

Why can't I get to page three on this thread?

[Scott Tichenor]

I have a similar problem logging on here via a vodafone dongle while out in Egypt. Originally when I first joined I was browsing the forum when I got a "your banned for life" message appear on the screen so I e-mailed Scott who kindly took the time to explain that a Scottish e-mail address operating from an Egyptian server had "arch spammer" written all over it from his point of view, fair comment I hadn't thought of that. Anyway I got reinstated at the cafe but to this day I've been unable to log on with my dongle from anywhere in Egypt.

All foreign web e-mail activity is monitored out there, and for good reason, but it seems an Egyptian security person has issue with my assurance to Scott that I wasn't "a ruthless egyptian spammer" (my exact words) :)), oh well never mind. It's tough enough being stuck out in the eastern desert with very little to do in my own time :crying: If I head back out I think I'll change mobile ISP.

I should explain this further. What happened in your case was you had just submitted a registration request to join. Part of that process is that I personally evaluate every single membership before activating posting privileges. Some of you may think that's heavy handed, and if so, in my usual gentle manner I'll just call that naive :).

I knock off between 5-6 spam registration attempts on an average day, and as many as 10 or more daily on busy days. If this work wasn't performed, there'd be so much spam posted here this would cease to be a viable discussion forum. You wouldn't be reading this.

Don't believe me? I can point you to a couple of empty mandolin forums right now that have "open registration", ie., no admin monitoring registration requests where you register yourself, and guess what? Those forums are serving as major spam link farms and either no one is there but the spammers, or the few members that are spend a good deal of their time complaining about it.

Instead of just removing the account, I place spam registrations in a special membership category that has no privileges (hence the notice of ban). This way the email address can't be used again so it blocks future attempts. Of course there are unlimited free email addresses, but this is just part of the game of hosting a forum.

That there's very little spam here is not by accident. I'd estimate I get 99.5 out of 100 of those correct, but once in awhile some legitimate chap registers from Malaysia or Vietnam honestly and get knocked off, or a Scottish worker in Egypt :). Most of the time I hear from those folks though.

There are fairly foolproof ways to get that 99% accuracy. It's just work. This is more information than asked for, but it's something I deal with every day of the year so it weighs on my mind.

[Poener]

Oh, I see, I am page three.:cool:

[Mattg]

II knock off between 5-6 spam registration attempts on an average day, and as many as 10 or more daily on busy days

Thank you!

[Jock]

Thanks for the great site Scott :) thanks for keeping it spam free and thanks for having me back :mandosmiley:

Not so sure that the pals appreciate it though, what with me slowly morphing into mandolin wielding crooner, I blame the jazzers myself ;)

[JeffD]

I work from a home office, and my hours are my own. When I get on the cafe, I am officially not at work. (Its simple really, I just don't bill those hours to the client.)

[Tom C]

Try going to mandolincafe.net (instead of .com) this used to be the discussion board (not home page). now it just redirects you to http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum so it still may not work for you.

[Pete Counter]

Depending on how they filter, you could install firefox and try that. Our company filters facebook, so I cant access it on IE but it comes up on firefox.

[JEStanek]

I wouldn't recommend installing other browser software on your work PC to get around their firewalls or site blocking configurations. That is a good way to get into real trouble. Sometimes, you just have to accept you can't get what you want.

Jamie

[sunburst]

Once again a little insight into how Scott keep this place the place that it is makes me respect and admire what he has been able to create here all the more! Great job Scott!

[MikeEdgerton]

Depending on how they filter, you could install firefox and try that. Our company filters facebook, so I cant access it on IE but it comes up on firefox.

That pretty much tells me how your admins are blocking things and that's pretty basic stuff, not real sophisticated.

[Martin]

I'm responsible for facilities at a small aircraft parts manufacture. I worked out a deal with the guys in IT. They let me access The Mandolin Cafe and I make sure they have an air conditioned office. ;)

After reading this thread I will also stop refering to them as Nazi's, my bad.

[JeffD]

It is hard to know wether and where the wink and the nod are to be found. Difficult conversation.

To what extent are we complaining about not being able to get away with something we know we shouldn’t be doing.

Unless you are in the music business, or the musical instrument selling or making business, or an owner or operator of the site, or an advertiser, (or other occupations I can’t think of) this forum is entertainment. Participation on the café at work is exactly equivalent to reading the newspaper at work, doing crosswords or sokudo at work, looking at fishing outfitter’s brochures at work, etc.

Now I have a wonderful situation, working for myself from home, of which I am most fortunate. If I want to spend a Friday afternoon at the café, it is of no consequence. I might even pour a bourbon and soda, Old Grand Dad being a fine companion on Friday afternoons. But you can bet that I will be in the office Saturday morning if I need the time to get the work done.

I would not presume to tell any employer what they should or should not permit. I personally know of several occupations where the stress level is so high that the employee is encouraged pursue a diversion when not “on duty”. But anything that I would not want the boss catching me doing at work, I won’t do at work. Period. And if the boss is blocking access, it is pretty clear what the boss’s expectations are.

I mean no offense or judgement to anyone, and I am the last person to whom anything has to be explained. I just was getting a little stressed that this aspect wasn’t given due emphasis.

I'll shut up and listen now.

[Pete Counter]

I dont use firefox to circumvent the system, I just prefer firefox and we're allowed to use whatever we want.

[fred d]

:)) This is so amusing work is Work surffing the net is not . Remember Big Brother is watching and 12-21-2012 is coming so play as much as you can becouse after that WELL:cool::whistling:

[Richard Morrison]

Using Firefox isn't an option as we cant install anything at all. They've even gone as far as to remove all burners and disable all usb ports...thumb drives aren't even allowed in the building anymore. I do understand all that because i work in a secured facility with our unsecure network (nipper) and a secured network (sipper) in the same room. We're free to surf the web to our hearts content as long as all the work is done, just not MC anymore. It wasn't blocked because it wasn't work related, it was blocked because its classified as entertainment...same category as youtube. I think MC's url showed up on some kind of data base they update because i was blocked the first time i logged on in 2010. Or, maybe the timing is just coincidence. Either way it sucks.

I will try the .net thing Monday though.:cool:

[Richard Morrison]

Forgot to add why i think its some sort of url database...

I tried to go around and was blocked again but noticed a Norton logo at the bottom of the page. I clicked on it and they're using "Norton Smart Filter" to monitor our web use. so, my guess is Norton updated on Jan. 1 and MC showed up on the list. It makes sense because if i had to give a conservative guess, I'd say there are 5,000+ users on our network just at Ft. Polk. That would be difficult to manually monitor even for a team to do and i know there's only 6 network guys at DOIM (Directorate of Information Management).

I have a feeling MC is gone for good at work...maybe i should quit.

~o)

[Martin]

Richard,
This may not be an option for you but I can read MC without to much difficulty on my blackberry.

[Coffeecup]

My employer was reasonably lenient in what was allowed on the computer network. The majority of staff respected that and did the right thing, but there was always one person who would abuse the privilege leaving management no option but to make things more restrictive for everybody.
Many of us were on dial up at home so it was useful to be able to download a large file, such as a windows service pack, at work. The idiot that downloaded hundreds of mbs of porn put paid to that.
That applied to many aspects of work, not just computer use.